The way to be right with God in every religion is by earning your way. It is based on works, not grace. Christianity is different from every religion in this aspect: all other religions (including Mormonism, Islam, Hinduism, and Buddhism) state that you must earn the right to be reconciled with God. It is by what you do in this life (good deeds or bad deeds) that determines your eternal destiny. Christianity is completely different from this. It is not religion. My high school American Literature Teacher, Mr. Patton, (who wasn’t a Christian) described it this way:
“The difference between Christianity and every other faith in the world is that all other religions are about man trying to reach up to God. Christianity is about God reaching down to man.”
This is a very important distinction, and it is core to what I believe, so I would like to try to clarify what I mean. Here is the way I am defining religion:
Religion is a system of beliefs or a code of moral conduct that judges (qualifies or disqualifies) a person based on their adherence and obedience to certain codes, rules, laws, traditions, or the performance of required acts.
Religion (almost universally) is enforced by those in power in an attempt to maintain, increase, or abuse their power over others. Religion is the creation of man and is not the intention or design of God. A modern day example (taken from the movie “Footloose”, starring Kevin Bacon) is a preacher who believes that dancing leads to promiscuity and destructive behavior (the Bible does not speak against dancing). He uses (abuses) his influence and his position of authority to convince his congregation that dancing is evil and forbids it. He sets up rules that are not in the Bible and adds additional beliefs that Jesus never endorsed. He is trying to control the people, using their trust of his authority to force them to believe his version of the truth. He adds rules that don’t exist in the Bible. In this example, he even has good motives, but he is still being religious and this “religion” is not from God. This is so very common. People have used Jesus to justify adding so many “requirements” to being a Christian. Here are just a few of the countless examples:
- Not drinking alcohol
- Not listening to certain types of music
- Insisting that church meet on certain days
- Only certain forms of music can be used in church
- You can’t be saved unless you are circumcised
- Reciting ritualistic prayers
- Saying you aren’t saved unless you get baptized
- You can’t eat certain foods
- Requiring you to perform rituals
- Being saved is conditional upon attending church or church membership
- Saying that you have to earn your salvation by doing good deeds
I could go on and on. When Jesus was on the earth, religion was very rampant, as it is today. There was a group of corrupt religious leaders called the Pharisees who had taken the word of God, passed down from Moses and the prophets (the Torah), and written a commentary on it interpreting what the scriptures said (called the Talmud). Then they wrote another commentary on that commentary called the “Mishnah”. The Mishnah was a list of hundreds rules to meet in order to insure that you were obeying the word of God. These were created by man and had little basis in the actual scripture.
For example, one of the 10 Commandments (from the Torah) was, “Remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy”. The Pharisees had made literally hundreds of rules in the Mishnah that detailed to the n-th degree what you had to do in order to keep that commandment. There was a rule that you couldn’t walk through a field on the Sabbath because your sandal might clip a grain of wheat, and if it did you would be harvesting grain. If you were harvesting, you had worked on the Sabbath and sinned. Another example is that you could not spit on the ground on the Sabbath because your spit would create mud and this was making mortar. If you created mortar you were working on the Sabbath and therefore sinning.
Jesus hated this! He hated the way the Pharisees used the people’s love for God (or fear of God) to control them, limit their freedom, and empty them of the relationship with God that was intended. When you practice religion, your relationship with God is degraded to a mathematical formula. Do this, then do this, don’t do that, and presto. . . you are right in the eyes of God. This is TOTALLY missing the point! God wants so much more. He wants to have a real relationship with you. He wants to show his love to you and He wants you to love Him. That was the point of the original commandment, “Remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy”. The Sabbath day was supposed to be a day for us to take a little break from working, refocus on what’s important, spend time with our family, and spend time with God. You can’t build a deep relationship without spending quality time together.
If you read the 10 Commandments you will notice that they are all about relationships. They are either about improving our relationship with God or with other people. As Jesus Himself said:
“You must love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, and all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. A second is equally important: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself. The entire law and all the demands of the prophets are based on these two commandments.” ~ Matt 22:37-40
And Paul said:
“For the commandments say, “You must not commit adultery. You must not murder. You must not steal. You must not covet.” These—and other such commandments—are summed up in this one commandment: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no wrong to others, so love fulfills the requirements of God’s law.” ~ Rom 13:9-10
So the law can be summed up in love; love for God and love for others. The law is about relationships; vertical and horizontal. It is about our vertical relationship with our creator and our horizontal relationships with the rest of mankind. It was never intended to be a list of rules that can be relegated to a checklist or mathematical formula. We are talking about love.
So the Pharisees took the commandment to remember the Sabbath and added religion to it by making that ridiculous rule about spitting on the ground. Jesus showed his complete disregard for their rules when he repeatedly healed people on the Sabbath. The Pharisees considered this “work”. On one particular occasion, He healed a blind man on the Sabbath by spitting on the ground, making some mud, and rubbing it on the man’s eyes. Jesus was God. He didn’t have to spit on the ground to heal the man. He was making a point to the Pharisees and everyone watching him that religion was wrong.
“Having said this, he spit on the ground, made some mud with the saliva, and put it on the man’s eyes. “Go,” he told him, “wash in the Pool of Siloam“. So the man went and washed, and came home seeing. Then they took the man who had been blind to the Pharisees, because it was on the Sabbath that Jesus had made the mud and healed him. Some of the Pharisees said, “This man Jesus is not from God, for he is working on the Sabbath.” ~ John 9:6-7, 13-14, 16
Religion is man trying to reach up to God. The message of Christianity is God reaching down to man. Religion is about what man has to DO to be right with God. Christianity is about what God has already DONE to provide us the opportunity to be right with Him. Religion says you must EARN your salvation by doing good deeds or certain acts and not doing evil. Christianity says all we need to do is BELIEVE that Christ has already paid the price for the evil we have done. Christianity says we are all evil (filled with sin) and there is nothing we can do to earn the right to be saved. Christianity says that God (in the form of Jesus Christ) stepped into our place and paid the awful price that had to be paid for us. He gave us the free gift of salvation if we choose to believe in Jesus.
“Christ suffered for our sins once for all time. He never sinned, but he died for sinners to bring you safely home to God. He suffered physical death, but he was raised to life in the Spirit.” ~ 1 Pet 3:18
“But to all who believed him and accepted him, he gave the right to become children of God.” ~ John 1:12
“Obviously, the law applies to those to whom it was given, for its purpose is to keep people from having excuses, and to show that the entire world is guilty before God. For no one can ever be made right with God by doing what the law commands. The law simply shows us how sinful we are. But now God has shown us a way to be made right with him without keeping the requirements of the law, as was promised in the writings of Moses and the prophets long ago. We are made right with God by placing our faith in Jesus Christ. And this is true for everyone who believes, no matter who we are. For everyone has sinned; we all fall short of God’s glorious standard. Yet God, with undeserved kindness, declares that we are righteous. He did this through Christ Jesus when he freed us from the penalty for our sins. For God presented Jesus as the sacrifice for sin. People are made right with God when they believe that Jesus sacrificed his life, shedding his blood.” ~ Rom 3:19-25
We are free by God’s great gift. All we have to do is claim it. Just like a Christmas present, it is a FREE GIFT (that cost the giver dearly), but it doesn’t become ours until we believe that the giver does care for us and that what is inside the box is something good. We then have to receive the FREE GIFT. It doesn’t become ours until we trust the giver and choose to receive the gift.
You see, as the verse from Romans above states, we can’t be saved by abiding by the law (the 10 Commandments). This is a list of rules. We can’t be saved by the effort of man. The bible clearly states this.
“God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can’t take credit for this; it is a gift from God. Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it.” ~ Eph 2:8-9
So often you hear from people that they think they will go to heaven because they have “been a good person”. Being good has nothing to do with whether you are saved or not. That’s religion. You can’t earn it. Thank God, because none of us could ever be good enough. “For everyone has sinned; we all fall short of God’s glorious standard.” God is perfect, and in order to be one with God and commune with the Almighty we would have to be perfect too. Only one person could ever do this, Jesus Christ. That’s why it took Jesus to stand in the gap and pay the price for all of us. Our sins are erased because of Christ. Theologians use a big term for this called “Substitutionary atonement”.
“If we claim we have no sin, we are only fooling ourselves and not living in the truth. But if we confess our sins to him, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all wickedness. If we claim we have not sinned, we are calling God a liar and showing that his word has no place in our hearts.” ~1 John 1:8-10
So, you might ask why, then, was the law was given. It was given to show us that we need God. As Paul says in Rom 7:7:
“In fact, it was the law that showed me my sin. I would never have known that coveting is wrong if the law had not said, you must not covet.” ~ Rom 7:7
Without the law as a standard we would not even realize that we needed a redeemer and savior from our sin. The law was just and correct. There was nothing wrong with the law. This is the way we are called to act. However, as humans we do not have the ability to love the Lord our God with all our hearts, souls, and minds and love our neighbor as much as ourselves all the time, everyday. Because sin was introduced into the world by man, we are inclined to sin and no one can live this way. So, we are in need of redemption from this predicament. Christ provided this. He did not come to abolish the law but to fulfill it.
“Don’t misunderstand why I have come. I did not come to abolish the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets. No, I came to accomplish their purpose. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not even the smallest detail of God’s law will disappear until its purpose is achieved.” ~ Matt 5:17-18
Through Christ we are made perfect in God’s eyes. We are forgiven from all sin; past and future. When we receive Him, He gives us his Holy Spirit that has the power to change us and make us more like Him. This is a process, but as this happens we begin to realize that we are living in the love originally required by the law. The original intention, the heart of the law, is established in our lives. Our relationships with God and others are founded in love.
It is the Holy Spirit that accomplishes this within us, not our own human effort. The Bible describes this process as Holy Spirit producing fruit:
“So I say, let the Holy Spirit guide your lives. Then you won’t be doing what your sinful nature craves. The sinful nature wants to do evil, which is just the opposite of what the Spirit wants. And the Spirit gives us desires that are the opposite of what the sinful nature desires. These two forces are constantly fighting each other, so you are not free to carry out your good intentions. But when you are directed by the Spirit, you are not under obligation to the law of Moses. But the Holy Spirit produces this kind of fruit in our lives: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. There is no law against these things! Those who belong to Christ Jesus have nailed the passions and desires of their sinful natureto his cross and crucified them there. Since we are living by the Spirit, let us follow the Spirit’s leading in every part of our lives.” ~ Gal 5:16-18, 22-25
This is the difference between religion and true Christianity. There is no checklist or list of rules that you must follow. It is ALL about your relationships, vertical and horizontal. There is no rhetoric or rituals that have to be practiced. Believe that Jesus Christ came to earth and died for your sins, accept his FREE GIFT, let God help you to love Him and love others. That’s it! It is so simple it sounds stupid, and it would be if there was no real power here. I’m here to testify that when you do this, the relationship with God is REAL and the power to change your life is there! Religion is empty. But, in Christ there is power.
“The message of the cross is foolish to those who are headed for destruction! But we who are being saved know it is the very power of God.” ~ 1 Corr 1:18
So when you look around at the church and what has happened in history you see a lot of bad things, and some good as well. The key thing that you must understand is that historically “the church” is predominately a religious organization with man-made rules and controls. This is evil and God is not in it. Good has been done by the few that truly understand what it means to be a Christian. These look like Christ. The Bible says, “You will know them by their fruits.” It also says:
“But those who obey God’s word truly show how completely they love him. That is how we know we are living in him. Those who say they live in God should live their lives as Jesus did.” ~ 1 John 2:5-6
Here is a verse that shows why most people who claim to be Christians really aren’t:
“You can enter God’s Kingdom only through the narrow gate. The highway to hell is broad, and its gate is wide for the many who choose that way. But the gateway to life is very narrow and the road is difficult, and only a few ever find it.” ~ Matt 7:13-14
So don’t look at what has been done by religious people and discredit God for it.
If you want to know hear more about why the “good people go to heaven” argument doesn’t fly, you should check out this book. It is a quick read (it took me about 2 hours) and is worth the time investment. How Good is Good enough
Philippians1v21 
July 1, 2008 at 8:41 pm
Read some of your why Christianity is not a religion. God wants us to have a relationship with him ????? It takes at least two to have a relationship. Both parts need to put in. After four years of trying to have that relationship with God, I have given up. It seemed like nothing I did was good enough for him. I never felt his presence, love, help or intervention in my life.I am now totally broken. No faith or trust left in this God who loves me and wants a relationship with me !!. I have cried and prayed but nothing. I have more issues than I can handle…. all from the Bible.God was the one person I believed could help me no matter what was happening in my life. I thought he was the potter and I the clay that he would mould and shape but now I just believe that we have to make ourselves change through determination etc. I will try harder next time !!! There is nothing left in me to bring to God.My daughter is also in the same place. She seems depressed all the time and has seen the counselor at church but nothing works or helps. How can this be a loving God who wants a relationship wit us when he ignores our needs and hurts. God is demanding and thats that.The Bible says we must be perfect like the Son and Father.
July 4, 2008 at 5:30 pm
The following response was emailed directly to the person who sent the comment. Reprinted here your everyone’s benefit.
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Hi Marion! Thank you so much for having the courage to write me and be so honest about your feelings. It is apparent that you are going through a tough time and have been for a while now. I really do feel for you and your daughter. I just want to tell you that you are not alone! Most all of us go through times in our life where we wonder where God is and question our faith. I have been through it myself.
I apologize that this letter is so long. But I do hope you read it since I spent my 4th of July (holiday in America) writing it J. Seriously though, there is truth in here that can help you.
I want to talk to you about the pain and sense of abandonment that you are feeling (because it is very common and it is valid), but first I feel that I need to address the root issue here. The root problem you are encountering is that someone has painted a very poor picture for you of who Jesus Christ is.
What picture of God has been painted for you? Jesus said, “If you have seen me, you have seen the Father” (John 14:9). Also, Colossians 1:15 states that Jesus Christ is the “image of the invisible God.” John 1:1 says, “In the beginning was the Word, the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”’ Then verse 14 says “and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us.”
When a person wants to know what God is like, she need look no further than Jesus Christ. He came to clear up the confusion about God’s nature AND to be the initiator of the relationship with all who are willing to believe (Matthew 22:3).
He came to be our example and our substitute. God is not interested in your perfection! You will never be perfect, and neither will I. No one (except Jesus) ever has or will be!
God, in gracious love, knew that we could not be perfect (or even close). Thus, we need atonement for our sins. We need someone to “step in” and do what we could never be “good enough” to accomplish.
The “relationship” with God happens because of Christ’s ministry of reconciliation. We are the offenders, but God receives us through the sacrifice AND ongoing work of Jesus Christ (1 John 2:1, Romans 8:34). He loves us too much to let us go.
In your comment you say, “It seemed like nothing I did was good enough for him” and “God is demanding and that’s that. The Bible says we must be perfect like the Son and Father.” I am very sorry that someone has characterized God for you in this way. Jesus himself said:
“Take my yoke upon you. Let me teach you, because I am humble and gentle at heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy to bear, and the burden I give you is light.” (Matthew 11:29-30)
How could Jesus say this if he demands perfection? Is perfection easy to bear? Does trying to be perfect give you rest? He says his burden is light. I can tell you that this has been so true in my life. When we accept Jesus Christ to be our Lord and Savior our position in Christ is settled. We don’t have to earn it. We become saints, not sinners. Yes, we may still choose to sin and this sin will impact our relationship with God (disrupt the harmony of our relationship) but it will not change the fact that we are his children . . .forever. Here are some excerpts from a great book, “Victory Over the Darkness”, by Neil Anderson:
“God does not want us to be “imitators” of Jesus. God has made us partakers of His nature so we will actually BE like Him. You don’t become a Christian by “acting” like one. You are not on a performance basis with God. He doesn’t say, “Here are my standards, now you measure up”. He knows you can’t solve the problem of your own sinful self by simply improving your behavior. He must change your nature, give you an entirely new self—the life of Christ in you—which is the grace you need to measure up to His standards . . . Only after He changes who you are and makes you a partaker of his divine nature will you be able to change your behavior.”
If this weren’t the case then Paul couldn’t say in Romans 8:1-2:
“So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus. And because you belong to him, the power of the life-giving Spirit has freed you from the power of sin that leads to death.”
It is the Holy Spirit that enables a Christian to become like Jesus Christ. As we trust in, seek, and rely on God in every aspect of our lives, the Spirit begins to change who we are. As we change, we desire to sin less and desire to serve God more, because we love Him, and not because we have to or because he demands it from us.
Neil Anderson gives a great example: “For instance, as mortals we can’t fly in our own strength, but we can fly in an airplane because the airplane has a greater power than the law of gravity.”
It is the airplane that has a greater power than gravity and allows the person to accomplish their desire to fly. Similarly, it is the Holy Spirit that has greater power than the temptations and desires of this world that enables a believer to actually accomplish their desire of living according to God’s design and not caving in to the desires of the sinful nature
“So I say, let the Holy Spirit guide your lives. Then you won’t be doing what your sinful nature craves.” (Galatians 5:16)
When we place our whole trust in Jesus, He puts the desires in our heart to obey Him. It is no longer something we do out of obligation.
“I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds.” (Hebrews 10:16)
That doesn’t mean you, or anyone, will be perfect. This is a gradual change and it doesn’t happen over night. The bible says in 1 Timothy 4:15:
“Be diligent in these matters; give yourself wholly to them, so that everyone may see your progress.”
It doesn’t say let everyone see your perfection! Thank God for that! As we give more and more of our desires and our control over to Jesus, He will change us and our progress will be evident, obvious, to all who look at us.
I praise God that anyone around me can tell you that I am not at all the same person I was even a year ago. But it has been the Holy Spirit’s gradual change in my life, not my effort to “be a better person”. All I have tried to do is focus on Him. He has showed me sin in my life and I have repented of it and gradually given it over to Him. I have, one by one, started to give up my own desires and received from Him a fresh new set of desires. They bring me so much more joy and satisfaction than my own interests, desires, and plans ever did! Jesus’ “burden” and “yoke” really ARE light!
“Let me ask you this one question: Did you receive the Holy Spirit by obeying the law of Moses? Of course not! You received the Spirit because you believed the message you heard about Christ. How foolish can you be? After starting your Christian lives in the Spirit, why are you now trying to become perfect by your own human effort?” (Galatians 3:2-3)
We can’t earn God’s favor by our own human effort. It says it right there in His Word. We must BELIEVE the message, that is, we must BELIEVE in the truth of who Jesus Christ is (God, who choose to come to the earth as a man) and what He did (paid the debt of our sins by living a perfect life, dieing on the cross, and conquering death). If we believe this message, we already have favor, good standing, in the eyes of God. It is a done deal!
Unless this issue is firmly, once and for all, settled in your mind and heart, you can’t and won’t experience the transformation that I talked about above. And, God WILL seem distant, unreachable, and like he isn’t there.
I can’t know for sure (only you and God can), but I suspect this might be the source of your frustration. Have you ever been so grieved and saddened by the all sin in your life that you repented of it and gave it over to Jesus? Have you ever asked Jesus to come into your heart and forgive you of all your sins (past and future), including the sin of resentment expressed in your letter? Have you ever (in complete faith) placed total control of your life in Jesus’ hands (made Him your Lord)? Did you do this while whole-heartedly believeing that He was God and he came to earth to die for you so that you can be free from the weight and penalty of your sin (free from the condemnation of not being perfect)? Did you believe Him and trust that His blood shed for you was powerful enough to pay for all your sins and that He was the perfection lived in your place? If not then do so now!
You see, we don’t have to be perfect . . . because Christ was. He did it for us, in our place, because it was something we could never do. You wrote in your comment that you “have nothing left to bring to God”. That’s just it; you can NEVER bring anything to God! The bible says:
“We are all infected and impure with sin. When we display our righteous deeds, they are nothing but filthy rags. Like autumn leaves, we wither and fall, and our sins sweep us away like the wind.” (Isaiah 64:6)
Even the best things we can do for God are tainted, filthy, before Him because they are done with impure (selfish) motives. No one can ever come to God and say, “I am such a good person, look at all these wonderful things I have done for you.” God will not hear such a person because they are proud in heart and not repentant of their many sins. For Jesus gave this example:
“The Pharisee stood up and prayed about himself: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get. But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’”
“I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.” (Luke 18:11-14)
The tax collector (like you) realized that he had nothing to bring to God. This is why Jesus said in the Beatitudes, “God blesses those who are poor and realize their need for him, for the Kingdom of Heaven is theirs.” (Matthew 5:3) A person who is “poor in spirit” knows that they need God and that they can’t earn his favor, they can’t bring anything to the table.
God doesn’t call us or pick us because we have something to offer Him. He doesn’t choose an “A-Team” of winners. He isn’t the “Team Captain” at recess picking the fastest, most athletic, or popular payers. In fact, it is just the opposite.
“Remember, dear brothers and sisters, that few of you were wise in the world’s eyes or powerful or wealthy when God called you. Instead, God chose things the world considers foolish in order to shame those who think they are wise. And he chose things that are powerless to shame those who are powerful. God chose things despised by the world, things counted as nothing at all, and used them to bring to nothing what the world considers important. As a result, no one can ever boast in the presence of God. (1 Corinthians 1:26-29)
Niel Anderson, in the book I have been quoting, says this:
“Too many Christians are trying to show that the bible is true by the way they live. It will never work for them. We accept what God says as true and live according to faith, and this abundant life works out in our experience. If we try to make it true by the way we live we will never get there . . . We are saved by faith and we walk or live by faith . . . We are neither saved nor sanctified by how we behave but by how we believe.
“You have to know and believe the positional truth [who you are in Christ . . . a saint] to successfully progress in your sanctification [spiritual growth] or you are going to try doing for yourself what God has already done for you.”
If you can come to understand this it will free you! You say you have many questions about the bible. I think once you understand this truth, much if it will begin to make a lot more sense for you. I would be happy to answer any questions that remain (to the best of my ability). In fact, Please call me or, if you’d rather, give me your phone number and I will call you. I would love to explain this over the phone because I could then understand better what you are going through. It is hard to convey what I mean in writing.
If your answers to the question I asked you about accepting Jesus Christ were all “yes”, then the next possibility is that you are a Christian that is experiencing a period where it seems like God is not near to you.
In fact, some of the godliest men in the bible went through this. They even recorded their crisis of faith for us to read. I believe God had those put in His word so that we can be comforted, knowing that it is not uncommon for us to wonder God, where are you? Why can’t I hear you? Why aren’t you helping me?
I encourage you to read the book of Psalms. It is littered with the earnest cries of people desperately seeking to find God in the midst of feelings of abandonment, loss, hopelessness, loneliness, and doubt. Some examples are Psalms 6, 13, 22, 25:9 & 15-22, 28, 34:18, 42:1 & 11, 51:11-12, 62, 63, 77, 88, and 102. I don’t think this would be such a reoccurring theme if it weren’t a common feeling. What you are feeling is real and valid. Here are some examples of how the psalmists cried out in the midst of this pain:
“Have compassion on me, Lord, for I am weak. Heal me, Lord, for my bones are in agony. I am sick at heart. How long, O Lord, until you restore me? Return, O Lord, and rescue me. Save me because of your unfailing love . . . I am worn out from sobbing. All night I flood my bed with weeping, drenching it with my tears. My vision is blurred by grief; my eyes are worn out because of all my enemies.” (Psalms 6:2-4, 6-7)
“My God, my God, why have you abandoned me? Why are you so far away when I groan for help? Every day I call to you, my God, but you do not answer. Every night you hear my voice, but I find no relief.” (Psalm 22:1-2)
“O LORD, how long will you forget me? Forever? How long will you look the other way? How long must I struggle with anguish in my soul, with sorrow in my heart every day?” (Psalm 13:1-2)
“Do not banish me from your presence, and don’t take your Holy Spirit from me. Restore to me the joy of your salvation, and make me willing to obey you.” (Psalm 51:11-12)
“I cry out to God; yes, I shout. Oh, that God would listen to me! When I was in deep trouble, I searched for the Lord. All night long I prayed, with hands lifted toward heaven, but my soul was not comforted. I think of God, and I moan, overwhelmed with longing for his help. You don’t let me sleep. I am too distressed even to pray! I think of the good old days, long since ended, when my nights were filled with joyful songs. I search my soul and ponder the difference now. Has the Lord rejected me forever? Will he never again be kind to me? Is his unfailing love gone forever? Have his promises permanently failed? Has God forgotten to be gracious? Has he slammed the door on his compassion?” (Psalm 77:1-9)
The feelings you have are no different than the ones expressed by these men of faith. The only difference is how you have responded. The difference is in what these experiences have caused you to conclude. The psalmist in Psalm 77 above doesn’t just leave his feelings there. He asks the question of God, “have your promises permanently failed”, but he concludes that they have not. He goes on to say:
“But then I recall all you have done, O Lord; I remember your wonderful deeds of long ago. They are constantly in my thoughts. I cannot stop thinking about your mighty works. O God, your ways are holy. Is there any god as mighty as you?” (Psalm 77:11-13)
Life in this world is hard. The world is fallen and needs to be redeemed. Redemption starts with the individual soul before God. One day, it will extend to all creation (Romans 8:18-29). Remember, when God came in the flesh to this world, it was hard for Him (he was a man of sorrows, acquainted with grief – Isaiah 53:3). In fact, Christ even quoted the verse from Psalm 22 above when he was hanging on the cross. Even Jesus felt that sense of abandonment that you are feeling.
“At about three o’clock, Jesus called out with a loud voice, “Eli, Eli, lema abachthani?” which means “My God, my God, why have you abandoned me?” (Matthew 27:46)
Our feelings are not adequate to reveal reality. Feelings change with the wind…and time. When my feelings tell me that God does not love me or accept me, I discipline myself to focus on the cross of Jesus Christ. It becomes for me a neon banner in the black of my night flashing the love of God for me whether I feel it or not. GOD WILLING TO DIE FOR ME. Therefore, I am willing to live for Him, whether I feel it or not.
Marion, Jesus loves you. He died for you. He doesn’t “ignore our needs and hurts” as you say. He cared so much about your need (to be forgiven and saved) that he endured your hurts (your sin) and bore them all on the cross. Jesus did not come to remove hurt and pain from your life. . . that is heaven. He came to save you from your sin and take the heavy load of living perfect off your shoulders.
The very fact that you are reading this shows that God cares a ton about the very needs and hurts you are talking about! He compelled an absolute stranger (on the other side of the world, mind you) to spend almost a whole day (a huge holiday in my country) praying for you and responding to you. You need to know that God told me to do it. These words are His very words to you. He loves you so much! I only wish you knew.
You can’t rely on your feelings as the barometer of what is true. Whether I feel like I am 31 or not, it doesn’t change the FACT that I am. The same is true of what God promises us. And He does promise that if we seek Him we WILL find Him.
“But from there you will search again for the Lord your God. And if you search for him with all your heart and soul, you will find him.” (Deuteronomy 4:29)
“For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the LORD, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future. Then you will call upon me and come and pray to me, and I will listen to you. You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart. I will be found by you,” declares the LORD. . .” (Jeremiah 29:11-14)
“Keep on asking, and you will receive what you ask for. Keep on seeking, and you will find. Keep on knocking, and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks, receives. Everyone who seeks, finds. And to everyone who knocks, the door will be opened. “You parents—if your children ask for a loaf of bread, do you give them a stone instead? Or if they ask for a fish, do you give them a snake? Of course not! So if you sinful people know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give good gifts to those who ask him.” (Matthew 7:7-11)
This I know for sure, if you really come to God in a contrite heart, broken over your sin, and seek him with of your heart (as the verses above state), you will find him! What is the condition of your heart? Are you coming to Him with bitterness, resentment, unconfused sin, or parts of your life you are unwilling to give Him? You must seek Him with your whole heart.
God is near to the brokenhearted. “The LORD is close to the brokenhearted and saves those who are crushed in spirit.” (Psalms 34:18) You must be broken over your sin, broken of your desire to live life your own way (through “your determination”). Come to Him in this way. As you do this, you must wait patiently for the Lord to act, trusting that He will. Sometimes He may wait just to see how much we really trust Him or believe in Him. If we give up then it shows He really wasn’t first in our life and we didn’t really seek Him wholeheartedly.
“Be still in the presence of the Lord, and wait patiently for him to act.” (Psalm 37:7)
“I waited patiently for the Lord to help me, and he turned to me and heard my cry.” (Psalm 40:1)
As you wait patiently, continue to ask God and seek him (“Keep on asking and knocking”).
Lastly, you must find a church that will teach the bible correctly. It seems like you have been taught that you must earn God’s favor. There are churches everywhere that will help you to understand the truth of the bible. I can help with questions (and I will), but you need a group of believers to walk through life with you. Your daughter needs to see the Christian life lived out.
I sincerely hope this helped you. I will pray for you. If nothing else, you have at least 20 people praying for you in America now! And God answers their prayers, I’ve seen it! Please call me, I’d love to talk with you more and help in anyway I can.
You Brother in Christ,
Jake McWhirter
July 19, 2008 at 8:45 am
Jake,
Great article and great answer to Marion.
I hope your article and answer to Marion will minister to many others too.
Pastor Jim
October 28, 2008 at 5:09 pm
Jake, I just wanted to say that you have a very powerful argument here. In the past year I’ve been leaning toward this idea of having a relationship with God in Christianity, and it makes much more sense than any of the other legalistic “religious” ideas about it. This page really sums up the kind of lifestyle I want to start living.
Thanks for taking the time to explain it to me and to anyone else who’s read it.
Caleb
October 29, 2008 at 10:20 am
Caleb,
Hi. Thank you for the encouraging comment. It sounds like you are on the right track. If you have come to the place where you believe that Jesus Christ came to earth as God and man, that he died for your sins on the cross, and was raised again, and you have repented of your sin and chosen to turn over control of your life to him, then you already have the relationship with him. John 1:12 says you are his child.
You now have direct access to the throne of heaven! No need to go through anyone else or jump through any religious hoops. Jesus alone is your mediator, your bridge (See 1 Timothy 2:5).
Now you can work on growing that relationship, making it stronger and deeper. Spend time with him in prayer, praise, and meditation on the Word. The Holy Spirit will guide you and teach you. Also, it is important for you to be part of a local church that believes in the truth of scripture and can help you grow. You don’t need to be part of a church that wants to push religion on you. Where do you live? Perhaps I can help you find one.
What you need to seek out are close relationships with Christians that can help you grow. That means spending time with you and living life with you. I have grown more in my life through the help of others than I ever have on my own.
A great resource that can help you as you begin the journey of a relationship with God is “Victory over the Darkness” by Neil Anderson. It should be available at most Christian book stores.
I will be praying for you. I am also here to help with any questions or issues you encounter. Please feel free to contact me. If you’re ever in the Seattle area, drop me a line.
Welcome to your new family. . . God’s family 🙂
God bless,
Jake McWhirter
“Even before he made the world, God loved us and chose us in Christ to be holy and without fault in his eyes. God decided in advance to adopt us into his own family by bringing us to himself through Jesus Christ. This is what he wanted to do, and it gave him great pleasure. So we praise God for the glorious grace he has poured out on us who belong to his dear Son” ~ Ephesians 1:4-6 (NLT)
March 29, 2010 at 10:04 pm
[…] That’s right, Christianity is anti-religion. I talk a lot about this on my page called “Why Christianity is NOT a Religion”. Basically, the bible says the Jesus came to pay our debt for us and die in our place. We […]
March 30, 2010 at 10:57 am
Dear Pastor McWhirter,
I came across this thread by googling “Christianity as gift not obligation.” That does seem to be the thrust of your ministry and I am glad to discover it.
You contributed your response to Marion so that it would be available to others as well for you are hopeful, I assume, that others will enjoy the gift Jesus brought you as you have yourself.
So I also would like to offer an addition that I have found most helpful and comforting. I call it an addition because it goes beyond your response and seem more radically Christian and therefore more likely, in my view, to be what Jesus had it mind. It certainly has been a gift to me.
My suggested addition is to carry further the understanding that Jesus’ gift is none other than the Holy Spirit who acts in our hearts and minds. All that is required of us is openness. Believing is not a requirement. Believing is itself a gift given by the Spirit who blows where he wills.
So your exhortation to Marion to believe sounded to me like imposing an obligation. Believing will or will not happen as God wishes. All we can do is give testimony to what it is like for us and to tell the stories that have inspired us.
The rest is for the Spirit to accomplish. She is up to the task (I hope I do not offend by using the female pronoun,) and it is very likely that task will not be done our way.
Sincerely,
John Rose
March 31, 2010 at 9:37 pm
John,
Thanks for the comment. Just to be clear, I totally agree with you about the Holy Spirit being a gift of God. Indeed He is God gifting Himself to us. This is why I say in the blog above, “It is the Holy Spirit that accomplishes this within us, not our own human effort.”
Additionally, I also agree that even our faith in God is a gift from Him. You can see this in Eph 2:8-10. However, I do hold that faith and belief are requirements for salvation. While it is given by God, it is absolutely required in order to know Him. Jesus says,
“Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.”
I don’t want to get into a huge theological discussion here about free-will vs. God’s sovereignty. But to be sure, I believe in both. I urge Marion to believe, because Jesus urged people to believe. I am putting no “obligation” on her apart from what Jesus did.
“After John was put in prison, Jesus went into Galilee, proclaiming the good news of God. “The time has come,” he said. “The kingdom of God is near. Repent and believe the good news!” ~ Mark 1:15
“Ignoring what they said, Jesus told the synagogue ruler, “Don’t be afraid; just believe.” ~ Mark 5:36
While the spiritual reality is that faith is given by God, the way we perceive that faith being given is by us choosing to follow. By this I mean to us it seems we choose (even though in reality we are chosen). So by all means, I encourage people to choose God. The realization that they were really chosen by God can come later.
You need to be careful about the implications of the theology you are espousing here. It has the dangerous potential, if taken to its ultimate conclusion, of downplaying the importance of preaching the gospel, sharing Jesus Christ and evangelizing the lost. If you go to the place where you hold a theology that there is no point in telling someone to repent and believe, then you have taken God’s sovereignty to place that is contrary to the Word. Jesus Himself commands us to go and make disciples (the great commission Matt 28:18-20). The verbs here are go, make, baptize, and teach. These actions are intended to tell us we need to do something. Paul expressed it this way:
“How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!” ~ Romans 10:14-15
My effort is to bring the good news to all who will listen. The good news does call people to repentance and faith. I can’t give them the faith. Only God can do that. However, I must be obedient to preach the truth and call them to it.
Hopefully that clears it up a little.
November 24, 2010 at 3:55 pm
my sister and i loves to read christian books because it inspires us to live life in its fullest ~-‘
May 19, 2012 at 8:13 am
This article and the comments left have added considerably to my understanding! Thankyou very much for taking the time to write everything you have. I do, however, have some difficulties (most likely stemming from the VERY little knowledge I have of Christianity):
Firstly, I have yet to understand how exactly our sins are removed because Jesus Christ died on the Cross. I know that he made the ultimate sacrifice so we did not have to carry the burden of being perfect for Him – but I still don’t quite understand how Jesus dying meant that we were forgiven! I feel that this gap in my understanding is indeed a huge abyss, for it is the basis of faith and belief, is it not? (Although I have faith and believe already – I’m just trying to learn it all now!)
Secondly, I am conflicted with Jesus’ call for us to “go and make disciples”. Though I am proud to be Christian and God’s child, I will always maintain that everyone has the right to choose their religion – I don’t want to be ‘converting’ my friends or whatnot (though I will certainly voice my beliefs on my blog etc. should I feel like it). I think I just don’t quite agree with the task of ‘spreading’ Jesus’ word if people don’t want to hear it!
I know these are probably common, rather broad and simplistic questions. Forgive me, I’m only eighteen and have just very very recently started to seriously understand Christianity! I really hope I can find answers to my questions soon :)!
That being said, thankyou again for this article – I will hunt for more of your work to expand my knowledge!
Much love,
Jessica
May 19, 2012 at 10:57 am
Thanks Jessica. These are very good questions. In fact they are some of the best I’ve heard in a while. I can see that God is at work in your heart. Keep asking questions like this and pursuing the answers and your knowledge of the Bible won’t be small for long. I want to address your two questions in two separate responses so that I can spend some time on each. I only have enough time right now to answer the first one, but I will also address the second when I get a chance.
Your question about how exactly Jesus’ death takes away our sins is very intelligent. Indeed, I think most Christians probably struggle with understanding this point. I know I used to. My lack of understanding here came from my small understanding of who God is. The more I began to learn about who He is and how great He is, the more this idea of Jesus paying the penalty for me began to make sense.
Let me see if I can help some. Many people will say, “God is love”. This is of course true (1 John 4:8), but it is also only one aspect of who God is. God is also just and holy. Did you know that the bible speaks about the wrath of God, His justice, and holiness WAY more than it does His love? His wrath alone is mentioned over 600 times! People will say, “But Jesus was this loving man who was so peaceful, nice and kind”. But, Jesus also spoke about hell more than anyone else in the bible! The very verse people quote above that said God is love (1 John 4:8) is immediately followed by this passage that talks about wrath and justice.
“But anyone who does not love does not know God, for God is love. God showed how much he loved us by sending his one and only Son into the world so that we might have eternal life through him. This is real love—not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son to satisfy His wrath and take away our sins.” ~ 1 John 4:8-10
Did you catch that last part? God’s love is linked to the ultimate display of His wrath…the death of Jesus on the cross. In fact, the justice of God is the reason we know what love is. We see that God is love because God is just. The two go hand-in-hand.
Let me explain why. Anger is not always bad, it can be a righteous virtue. Anger is the correct response to injustice. God is aroused slowly and often withholds His response (Ex 34:6-8 and Ps 78:38) but He does get angry with sin. In fact this response from Him is necessary. So why is this response from God necessary?
We can’t understand the love of God without understanding his wrath. The bible says that the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom (Ps 111:10). We need to first start our understanding of God with an understanding of His justice and holiness before we can rightly know what His love is. Paul starts out his presentation of the gospel in Romans with discussing the wrath of God (Rom 1:18). God’s love is not mentioned until the 5th chapter. This is why Paul starts here.
God is just or righteous (same word in Hebrew and Greek). In fact, God’s holiness is His attribute that is most mentioned in Scripture (Some examples are: Deut 32:4 and Is 45:19). He does not (and cannot) overlook evil. If God did not punish all sin he would be unjust, unrighteous. He must be angry because of sin because God is good. His anger is directly linked to His goodness. He can’t be one and not have the other. In fact, the bible says that God is so holy that He can’t even look on sin (Hab 1:13)! God hates sin (Prov 6:16-19 and Zach 8:17). I believe if we understood how holy God really is it would totally blow us away. We would feel so dirty and ashamed of our sin. I think one day when we fully understand how ugly our sin is, we will start to grasp how we have wronged God.
So you have these two huge parts of God’s character: His love and His justice. Both must be upheld. Both are equally important aspects of His character. One cannot be ignored in favor of the other or God would no longer be God. He cannot act outside of His very nature. If God just turned His back on all the evil, all the wrong things done in this world and just let it all go, He would be unjust. So the idea that people have, that “God is love” and therefore won’t punish them, is totally wrong. He must punish evil or He is no longer just. This doesn’t just apply to Hitler or Osama Bin Laden. It applies to my sin and yours. Either God is just or He isn’t. Wayne Grudem, theologian and Professor at Phoenix Seminary says it this way . . .
“The Scripture points to two things [that are the ultimate cause of Christ coming to die for our sins]: the love and justice of God.”
“The love of God as a cause of the atonement is seen in the most familiar passage in the Bible: “For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life” (John 3:16). But, the Justice of God also required that God find a way that the penalty due to us for our sins would be paid (for he could not accept us into fellowship with himself unless the penalty was paid). Paul explains this was why God sent Christ to be our “propitiation” (Romans 3:25 NASB)—That is, a sacrifice that bears God’s wrath so that God becomes “propitious” or favorably disposed toward us: it was “to show God’s righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins” (Rom 3:25). Here Paul says that God had been forgiving sins in the Old Testament but no penalty had been paid—a fact that would make people wonder whether God was indeed just and ask how he could forgive sins without a penalty. No God who was truly just could do that, could he? Yet when God sent Christ to die and pay the penalty for our sins, “it was to prove that at the present time that he himself is righteous and that he justifies him who has faith in Jesus” (Rom 3:26).”
“Therefore, both the love and justice of God were the ultimate cause of the atonement. It is not helpful for us to ask which one is more important, because without the love of God, he never would have taken the steps to redeem us, yet without the justice of God, the specific requirement that Christ should earn our salvation by dying for our sins would not have been met. Both the love and justice of God are equally important.”
Ok. There are some big ideas and large words in that quote. But hopefully it helps you to get a picture of the situation. God is just and therefore cannot let the penalty go unpaid. Jesus volunteers to pay the penalty so that God can remain just and display His love for us in a way that is completely unbelievable. This is why God couldn’t just wave His arms and forget all the sin. Nope, the debt had to be paid. The only way was for God to pay it Himself. He was the only one qualified to pay it. He alone was without His own sin. It had to be Jesus or we were doomed to hell forever.
When Jesus went to the cross for us, God literally placed all of the guilt from our sins on Jesus (Isa 53:6, 12). Paul tells us that God made Christ “to be sin” (2 Cor 5:21) and that He became “a curse for us” (Gal 3:13). Hebrews says that Christ was “offered once to bear the sins of many” (Heb 9:28). Peter says, “He Himself bore our sins in His body on the tree” (1 Peter 2:24). When Jesus was on the cross He became so filthy with our sin that God could no longer look upon him. God turned away, and for the first time in history Jesus felt separation from His Father. He cried out, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” (Matt 27:46)
These verses tell us that it was God Himself that actually placed our sins on Jesus. But how could this be? In the same way that Adam’s sins were imputed to us (or bestowed on us) so also God imputed our sins to Christ, that is, that he thought of them as belonging to Christ. As a result in God’s eyes the penalty is paid. Additionally, God also imputed Christ’s righteousness to us. Not only are we not guilty before God if we have faith in Jesus, but when God looks down and sees you He see Christ’s good works, not yours!
Some have objected that it was not fair for God to transfer guilt to an innocent person, but we need to remember that it was actually Jesus who volunteered to pay the penalty. There was no coercion. Jesus voluntarily went in our place. It reminds me of the seen in Hunger Games when Katniss takes the pace of her younger sister as “tribute” to play in the games. The difference, of course, is that in this situation it was an unjust debt. In our situation we owe it, big time!
Hopefully that helps some. If not let me know where you are hung up and I’ll try to elaborate. I’ll address your second question in another post when I get a chance.
In Love,
Jake
June 6, 2012 at 2:32 pm
Thanks for everything you have written here Jake.
As a Christian of many years I am still so young in my journey and it is a constant learning curve for me.
The area I struggle with the most is how to convey God’s Love and sacrifice to those who really don’t want it to be true.
Raised in a non-christian house I have been surrounded by non-christians all my life. My acceptance of Christ as a teenager was something that disturbed my non-christian family and to this day, they still question my faith.
Their disbelief is primarily that God is a figment of ones imagination and is a means by which people seek solace in times of need or by which people try to control others. Therefore they want no part in it.
For them to hear about God’s sacrifice for them, is meaningless because they feel there is nothing wrong with them and their life choices in the first place. On the other hand they feel that in saying humans are sinful and wrong Christians are passing judgement and trying to impose their beliefs on others. We are bigots and we are doing a horrible thing by trying to indoctrinate them and most especially their children.
I have learned over the years to step back and to love my non-christian family and ignore their alternative lifestyle choices even though I don’t agree with them. For me to tell them in any way shape or form that they are being sinful and are doing wrong would cause them to feel anger and hatred towards my faith and to detest the fact that I love the Lord with all my heart.
So how does one share the love of God with unbelievers who have serious concerns about the “evil cult known as Christianity” So far I have just tried to be loving and warm to them regardless of their lifestyle whilst making it clear that while I don’t chose to partake in some of their lifestyle choices and believe that they are not something acceptable for me and my family, I still love them. I don’t ‘Bible Bash’ them or try to indoctrinate them but at the same time just living my life doesn’t seem to be influencing them any closer to Christ either, at least not yet.
I’d love to hear how you think Christians should relate to and approach non-believers who are vehemently opposed to Christianity and it’s perceived attempts to indoctrinate them.
Thanks
June 6, 2012 at 3:59 pm
Nina, thanks for the comment and question. First I would just like to encourage you to keep pressing on fighting the good fight. I can only imagine how difficult it must be for you to stand by your beliefs in such a hostile environment. Remember that God says you are blessed when you are persecuted for His name. In fact He says to consider it joy! That’s because you are storing up reward in heaven, which lasts forever while this life is so temporary.
My advice to you would be to wage a campaign of prayer. Prayer is SO powerful! It is usually the first thing we talk about but the last thing we do. Pray for the Holy Spirit to work in your family; to convict them of sin and prepare the way for you to share. If your family made it clear that they do not want you to try to persuade them to believe, I think you should respect their wishes and pray that God would soften their hearts. Yiu cannot do anything to save them. Apart from a work of God in their hearts giving them faith, they will not hear or understand your words. This is what Paul tels us in 1 Cor 2:14. Consider fasting in and praying. I have found that fasting is a powerfull way to break strongholds of the enemy in people’s lives (Isaiah 58).
As you pray for God to work in them, also pray the the Holy Spirit will fill you with the power to live like Jesus. you need to be able to love them like Jesus does…sacrficially. If they see a real change in you, how you react, how you serve, and how you love, they will see your faith as a source of strength, not a crutch to help the weak. study Jesus’ life; how He served, loved, forgave, and suffered. They will know your faith is real when they can see it lived out. Repay evil with kindness. Love when you are attacked. You cannot do this in your own power. It will have to be God working through you, this is why it is important to pray for Him to do this work in your heart. Confess your sin. Repent of anything God shows you that needs to change. Your focus needs to be on your life.
As you do this eventually God wil begin to make headway into their hearts. God can use your life as contrast to theirs and point out their sin. He will guide you and show you when the proper time is to share why there is a change in you. This part takes some discernment so pray for that as well. As a general rule, wait until they ask you what is going on. When you do speak about God be sure do do it from a position of humility, acknowledging your many faults and showing thanks for how much God has saved you from. There are times when it is appropriate and necessary to point out their sin, but if they are seeing you and Christians as judgmental, then the best approach may be to talk about your sin and what God has saved you from.
I wish you the best. Please let me know if there is anything else I can do to help.
With love in Christ,
Jake
September 12, 2012 at 6:09 pm
Amen!!! ❤
September 17, 2012 at 3:40 pm
if Christiantiy is not a religon than why dont your churches give up their tax-exempt statuses? as well a religon is belief i a god, or God, and thats what christians do, theorfore Christianity is not a relationship
September 17, 2012 at 5:50 pm
Tony,
Your argument that churches don’t pay taxes doesn’t make your case that they are religions at all. Paying or not paying taxes has nothing to do with being a religion. Churches get tax breaks because they are “not-for-profit”, charitable organizations. It has absolutely nothing to do with if they are religions or not. If being tax-exempt defines you as a religion then Kiwanis, The Elks Club, Green Peace, and the Boy’s and Girl’s Clubs of America would be religions. Is that what you think?
The key issue that you and I are disagreeing over is the definition of “religion”. The word religion certainly has many definitions (like many words in the English language). When you are going to discuss whether Christianity is a religion or not it is very important to define exactly what you mean by “religion”. I have done this very clearly in my blog above. By the definition that I am using, Christianity is NOT a religion. Do you disagree that Christianity is not a religion by the definition that I gave?
If you define “religion” to simply mean a belief in a god, then certainly, Christianity would fall under that description. No argument there. We agree. However, this is not the common use of the word. It is not what most people mean when they talk about religions or say that someone is “very religious”. There is much more implied there than that they believe in a god of some kind. Also, people can believe in the existence of a god but not be religious and not belong to any religion. Your definition of religion (a belief in a god) isn’t very helpful and is too broad for the context of this blog.
Your argument that Christianity is not a “relationship” because it is a “belief” makes no sense at all. I believe in the existence of my wife. Does it then follow that I don’t have a relationship with her? Belief is absolutely necessary in order to have a relationship. It’s kind of the first step in a relationship. Unless I believe in the existence of someone, it’s going to be hard to have a relationship with them. I believe in God BECAUSE I have a relationship with Him. This is no different than the fact that I believe in the existence of my wife because I know her.
September 17, 2012 at 6:15 pm
the defintion of religon is one THAT YOU INVENTED, not its proper meaning!
September 17, 2012 at 6:25 pm
If you are going to comment here,Tony, you need to bring an argument and not just verbally stick your tongue out because you don’t like the response. That is not intellectually honest.
September 17, 2012 at 6:26 pm
and what kind of realtionship is it if you cant see hear, touch, smell or taste, If you look at what it involves, this “relationship” with God / Jesus Christ is indeed an odd one. In it, a Christian is supposed to obey God without question. He/she does NOT have the freedom to disagree or hold opinions contrary to Bible teaching. This means that he/she cannot say to God, “I love you God. But I don’t agree with what you said in the Bible here and here…” To do so would mean he/she was not a true Christian, and the church would not accept such an opinion either. Instead, any believer disagreeing with God or parts of the Bible in ANY issue would be encouraged or lectured to submit and acknowledge that God’s opinions/ways are perfect, righteous, and therefore there is no disagreeing with it, and to do so is morally wrong.
what kind of relationship is that-one between a slave driver and the guys thats picking cotton….
September 17, 2012 at 9:32 pm
I can’t see you or hear you or smell or taste you. Does that mean you don’t exist or that it is impossible to have a relationship with you? The fact that we are communicating shows that at some level we ARE having a relationship. I may not be able to see God, but I can and certainly do hear Him and feel Him. My relationship with Him is undeniably real. Since I am the only one who can testify what MY relationship with God like, I think I am in the best position to comment on it. I am the world’s leading expert on my relationship with God.
He is very real. He speaks to me frequently in unmistakable ways. He stirs my heart and my spirit and moves me to want and desire new things that I never thought I would ever desire before. It is only someone who knows God, who has experienced this same thing that can understand this or will believe it. But, once you have, there is no doubting it. My relationship with Jesus is as real to me as any earthly relationship. In so many ways it is deeper. It is one of mutual love.
That is what you cannot understand without experiencing it. The relationship between me and my Savior is not one of slave to master. It is one of close brother to brother. It is one of son to loving Father. I don’t choose to obey God out of fear or compulsion. I gladly choose to obey because I love Him and I know that He knows what is best. His plan and His way is the best way. It is in my best interest to follow Him because He knows everything (all ways) and has chosen the best path for me. Additionally, He is continually at work in my heart changing me. He gives me new desires and I find that I no longer want to go my way. I am able to see a little more from God’s perspective and I start wanting to go His way. So, I find I am actually doing what I WANT to do, not obeying out of compulsion.
There are certainly times when I disobey and go my own way and not His. However, without fail this turns out to my detriment and to the detriment of those I love. When I repent and turn back to His way He is always there with open arms welcoming me back and helping me want to grow. When I don’t agree with the bible or with God, it is me that is wrong, not Him. What arrogance to think that we can tell God what is right and that He is wrong. It is simply a fact that God is right. It is His very nature. He cannot be un-right. Right and wrong only make sense in relation to God. God is the very DEFINITION of right. Without an external God separated from His creation there is no such thing as objective right an wrong. We would have no concept of right or wrong apart from God. Everything would be purely subjective.
So, of course God is right. That doesn’t mean I always agree or that I always obey. However, your idea that this means you don’t have a real relationship is ludicrous. I have a real relationship with my earthly Father. However, there are certainly times when we disagreed. I frequently disobeyed my Dad’s rules and did what I wanted to do. Yes, this was wrong. Yes, it was “morally wrong” for me to disobey my father. There were consequences when I disobeyed. But this didn’t change the fact that my father loves me. My relationship didn’t change. He was still my father and I was still his son. I still have a relationship with him (in fact a very good one). I am not his slave just because he gave me healthy boundaries, set rules and called me to obey them. They were for my safety and well being. Do you think that perhaps my Dad may have know a few more things that I, as an 8 year old boy, did? Is it possible he might have known better than I did if it was a good idea for me to go walking around town at midnight? Perhaps the almighty God of the universe might know a little bit more than you do? Just say’n.
Your root issue here is your unwillingness to surrender your will to God’s will. You are a sinner. Like all of us you have chosen to rebel against the holy, just and good God of this universe. You have thumbed you nose at Him and and the sound of submitting to Him is like nails on a chalk board to you. You would rather continue to go your way because you have believed the lie that you know better than God what is good and right for you. If you only could see the truth that of what you are missing. If you only knew that the real freedom, the real joy, the real hope, the real life is only found when you fulfill the purpose for which you were created and repent of your way and let God lead.
It is my prayer that you will. There is a real eternal hell at stake here. Just as God cannot be un-right, He can also not be unjust. His very character is just. He must punish evil and sin. If He overlooked it He would be unjust. The only hope of escaping this punishment is the fact that Jesus agreed to take this punishment for those who repent and agree to let God lead. Jesus stepped in on the cross and took our punishment, the penalty that we rightly deserved so that God could remain just and so that we could live. This was the only way both could be satisfied. If you do not repent and place God in His rightful position of Lord of your life, you will pay for your own sin in hell for all eternity. However, if you swallow your pride, admit you are wrong and that He is right, and place your trust in Him, you can live forever with Him in a love relationship that will grow and grow for eternity.
This is the most rewarding and wonderful relationship you could ever have. I know from personal experience. I was where you are now. But I gave in, I realized my way was not the right way. I realized that I was drinking out of the toilet when I was being offered fresh, purified water. I came to Him dirty and full on sin and my own pride. I laid it all at the foot of His cross and repented and it was all gone, in an instant. He took it all upon Him and suddenly I was set free in a way I cannot express. I have never been the same since. I am a new person. I truly do desire this for you. I will pray for you and I am here if you have any questions.
Dear God, please work in Tony’s heart and help him to see you for who you are. The greatest thing he has never known.
November 6, 2012 at 12:42 am
How do you explain the quote “Those who love me keep my commandments?”
November 6, 2012 at 2:04 pm
Matiny,
This is a good question. You are referring to John 14:15. Ironically (and most likely not coincidentally), it is a subject that was directly discussed in the sermon preached at my church on the same day you posted your comment. Pastor Daniel does an excellent job of answering your question and discussing the Law and its purposes in yesterday’s sermon, titled “God Says”. I highly recommend that you listen to this sermon. I think it will help answer your question and provide you with my perspective in better detail. You can find the full sermon here: https://vimeo.com/52803885
The sermon above is much more thorough than I can be here, but I will try to give a quick summary of my thoughts.
The scriptures are very clear that we, as New Testament followers of Jesus, are not under the specific and direct commands of the Old Testament law. This can be clearly seen in numerous Scripture passages. A few are: Eph. 2:11-16, Romans 10:4, Hebrews 7:12, 8:13, and 2 Cor. 3:4-18. The Mosaic Law was not intended as a universal and eternal reflection of the will of God. It was intended for a particular time, place and people. In Christ, it is no longer binding. Abel, Noah, Abraham and many others were declared righteous before the law. Moses, Joshua, David, the prophets and many others born under the law were declared righteous not through obedience to the law but through faith in the promises of God. Now, in Christ, we relish in the final revelation of the fulfillment of the promises in the coming of the object of the faith (Jesus Christ) who alone justifies.
We are not under the law but under grace (Romans 6:14). However, this is not a passport for living how we want and thumbing our nose at God. As Paul said, “By no means!” (Romans 6:1-2). Instead of the old law we are under the “law of Christ”. This is what Jesus meant when he says, “keep my commandments”. But what is the law of Christ? This can be answered by looking at a few verses. . .
The law of Christ is love; love for others and love for God. Jesus tells us that love fulfills the whole law (Matt 22:38-40). We are called to love. By doing so, we fulfill all the intent and purpose of the rules of the law without needed to obey the letter. Jesus actually modeled this for us when He was on earth.
But, the problem remains that we still don’t have the ability to live this way. That is where the passage you asked about comes in. Look at the verse the immediately follows the one you quote, John 14:16 . . .
He gives us the Holy Spirit to help us with this commandment to love. Thus it is actually His work, not ours. The Holy Spirit empowers us and helps us love overcoming our selfishness.
Paul explains that obeying the law doesn’t make us righteous. He says that if you try to obey part of the law then you are obligated to keep the whole thing . . . every piece of it. He says that such people have “fallen away from grace” and are “severed from Christ”. He goes on to say that “the only thing that counts is faith working through love” (Gal 5:2-6). As we place our faith in God, he changes our hearts. The Holy Spirit helps us to genuinely love God and love others. This faith works itself out as love in our lives. Therefore, those who have faith will love, and thus, fulfill the law of Christ.
Hopefully that helps some. Please watch the sermon for a better explanation.
November 15, 2012 at 2:57 pm
so there is nothing wrong with drinking alcohol and not listening to certain type of music.
November 15, 2012 at 7:43 pm
Not sure i understand your post. There may not be anything wrong with it, depending on why you are doing/not doing these things. These things themselves have no moral implications. They are just things. How they are used and why they are used is what is relevant. It is always about the heart.
November 19, 2012 at 10:23 am
Why there are so many denominations in christianity?
November 19, 2012 at 2:18 pm
Pradeepa,
The short answer to your question is that it is because of sin. Sin always divides. As I explained in the post above, sin separates us from God. It also separates us from each other. We see this every day. As a result of sin, marriages split up, friends part ways, relationships are strained, etc. Relationships are always impacted when we sin (usually our horizontal relationships with others, but always our vertical relationship with God). We repeatedly see this example in the Bible. When Adam and Eve sinned in the Garden, they became separated from God. Their close, personal relationship with Him wasn’t the same anymore. We see this with the Nation of Israel. When King Solomon sins by worshiping idols, the result is that his kingdom is divided. It is split into two kingdoms (Israel and Judah). The once unified Nation of Israel is torn in two as a result of this sin.
This is similar to what has happened to the Church. God did not desire for Jesus’ Bride, the Church, to be divided. Jesus’ prayer for the Church was that we would be unified, united just like Jesus is united with the Father (John 17:20-23 also 1 Corinthians 12:15). However, when Jesus left, Satan remained. His desire is to spread dissension and division (Romans 6:16-20). The Church has a real enemy that is continually warring against it to try to create as much division as possible. Additionally, Christians still have sinful natures. We are far from perfect! We still sin. Sin also has the effect of clouding our minds so that we cannot perceive things correctly. It tends to skew our interpretation of things. Thus, there were many disagreements of how to interpret various things in Scripture.
The result of this sin is that divisions came up. Christians didn’t always agree on everything. Sometimes they even fought over these disagreements. In most cases these disagreements and different interpretations of Scripture were not major, but were more minor. However, it is the proclivity of mankind to focus on our differences instead of the more important points we agree on. Some of these points of disagreement are listed in my post above (what day of the week to meet on, forms of music to use, ritualistic prayers, dietary requirements, etc). These things are minor points and should not cause fellow believers in Christ to divide. But, all too often, our sinfulness comes out and we fear those who do not agree with us. We do not give our brothers and sisters in Christ the freedom (as Paul urges) to be “fully convinced on his own mind” of the way he thinks while not “passing judgment on the other” (Romans 14:5, 13).
In addition to these minor points, theological differences caused division. Many of these differences are about concepts about God and how He works that are very difficult for us humans to understand (such as the role of human free will in relationship to the sovereignty of God). Other theological points of disagreement centered on who should be baptized and how. People disagreed on the proper use of spiritual gifts (with some people leaning more towards supernatural experience with the Holy Spirit and others leaning more toward intellectual disciplines like reading and studying God’s word).
Instead of bearing with one another and allowing each other to disagree on minor matters like this, churches split up over them. They formed whole organizations of churches around their way of thinking. Groups who believed that the right way to baptize was by immersing the person in water instead of sprinkling water over them split off. Groups of churches that believed that infants should be baptized at birth joined together and separated themselves from churches that believed only believers in Christ should be baptized.
The result was that the Church, as a whole, lost out. In most of these cases there are correct points on both sides (as well as some errors and over reactions). We cannot put God in a box, and the reality is that we need perspective of the whole Church to better understand Him. By surrounding ourselves with only the people who think like us, everyone loses. I look forward to the day when Jesus returns and there will no longer be any denominations, nations, or any other divisions; only followers of Jesus. God will correct all the wrong thinking in all of us, align us and help all of us to see and understand more of Him than we can now.
That is my short answer, I hope it helps some. Let me know if I didn’t directly address what you were after.
November 19, 2012 at 4:29 pm
Pradeepa the various different denominations to my understanding have come about much in the same way that cultural differences come about. When the disciples were sent out to all the ends of the earth to spread the Good News, they naturally came across people from very diverse backgrounds and cultures which resulted in slightly different traditions and practices within the one faith. I imagine a lot of this is reflected in the various different denominations that you come across today.
November 20, 2012 at 9:42 am
Nina,
Thanks for the response. However, that is not really historically accurate. For the first 1,000 + years of the Church there were no separate denominations, just one Church. The Church had already spread over the entire known world. It wasn’t until the “Great Schism” that occurred in 1054 that the Church began to divide. At this point it split in two. It further divided when the Protestant Reformation occurred in the 16th century. The king of England also split the church in 1534 because he wanted to get a divorce. For a good summary of the actual history you can see this link: http://www.religionfacts.com/christianity/history/denominations
January 11, 2013 at 6:57 pm
Hi, I heard that when people die, instead of going directly to heaven or hell, they sleep until the day God would comes back and question us about our sins. I was just wondering if that was correct?
January 11, 2013 at 9:58 pm
Gohar,
That is called “soul sleep” theology. It is false teaching. The bible never teaches that. There are several clear bible passages that directly contradict it. One example is Jesus’ words to the thief on the cross in Luk 23:43, “Today you will be with me in Paradise“. Also, Jesus rebukes the Sadducees by claiming that “God is not the God of the dead, but of the living” (Mk 12:27). Jesus claimed He would never die (John 5:24 and 8:51). Also, Moses and Elijah join Jesus on the mountain top when He is transfigured (Matt 17:1-4). They are clearly alive and not asleep. The apostle John sees saints alive in Heaven when he is taken there by an angel in Revelation. Paul very pointedly confronts this bad theology when he asserts that to be “absent from the body is to be present with the Lord” (2 Cor 5:8).
Here is a web site that goes into more length refuting soul sleep: http://www.pmiministries.com/soul_sleep.htm
Hopefully that helps.
January 31, 2013 at 4:09 am
So Christians, why is your religion more valid, than say, Hinduism? Judaism? Islamicism? Buddhism? Sikhism? What is so veeeery believable about Christianity that you take it above all other religions?
January 31, 2013 at 12:57 pm
[…] many important differences between Christianity and the other religions. I pointed out a few in a previous blog, (such as how Christianity is unique in the fact that is about God coming to man instead of man […]
January 31, 2013 at 1:02 pm
Alex,
This is a good question. I chose to write a blog post to answer it. This will allow me a little more space to more fully address your question. See blog linked below:
http://missionarybrewer.wordpress.com/2013/01/31/why-believe-in-christianity-over-other-religions/
February 21, 2013 at 9:44 pm
Your entire essay here can easily be undone by the first sentence of your fabricated definition for religion.
“Religion is a system of beliefs or a code of moral conduct that judges (qualifies or disqualifies) a person based on their adherence and obedience to certain codes, rules, laws, traditions, or the performance of required acts.”
Christianity is built on the “system of belief” that you must accept Jesus as your savior. Accepting Jesus “qualifies” you to go to heaven. In order to go to heaven, you must “adhere” to believing Jesus was the savior.
Done and done.
February 21, 2013 at 11:01 pm
DS, thank you for the comment. However you have hardly refuted what I’m saying. In fact, it seems you have completely missed (or intentionally avoided) my entire point. Yes, Christianity is a system of beliefs that one adheres to. That is not my point, though. I was very specific in how I defined religion. I specifically laid out WHAT religion adheres to: “codes, rules, laws, traditions, or the performance of required acts”. “Believing” is not mentioned in that list. Christianity is unique in that it is a belief without requiring anything more than believing. All religions require belief + performance of works. It is this last part that characterizes religion. Religion says you have to EARN it. In Christianity the work is already done by God. All that is necessary is to trust is His work. Jesus earned it for us on the cross.
Everyone has a belief that they adhere to. This is even true for those who don’t believe in a god. They BELIEVE there is no god. Religion is not just believing something. If that were true, then physicists would be religious because they believe in Newton’s laws of motion. Just because you believe something doesn’t mean you are “religious” about it. Religion is a belief that requires you to to do something to earn favor from God. This is why Christianity is so different from the others. It is unique in that it isn’t about what you do you. You can’t do anything to earn it.
Hopefully this helps you understand my point better.
March 7, 2013 at 2:34 pm
I am a Born again Christian and I will say this again and again till
The Day Jesus comes Back what I believe in is Not a religion
Nor does it have anything to do with Religion. Religion is the reason
why they are killing us innocent Men Woman and Children..
I believe in Relationship with Jesus and Following Him Trusting Jesus
Be all That I need. Not some code of men made Rules/
March 27, 2013 at 10:38 am
Having been born & raised in Hindu Religion, I was trying to find truth based on “self efforts” & “works”. As nothing was working, I did participate in Buddhist meditation, astrology and many other mechanism, rituals & scientific technics. The end result was complete failures.
By Grace of God, someone shared “Gospel” 3 years ago and got “Born Again” & “Baptized in the Holy Spirit” without attending any church or following rules & regulations. Jesus changed my life entirely instantaneously and the peace he gave me is unspeakable & beyond human comprehension.
Devil is using people to tempt me by asking, “are you converted”?
Answer is = YES, I’m converted from SIN to Righteousness (of Christ by faith).
It’s Not a Religion at all and saved by Grace through faith alone.
I sometimes prefer to use word “Believer” rather than christian while you are in midst of unbelievers and sharing the Gospel because there are 100s of christian denomination and religions out there to conuse people. I believe God has chosen me to share Gospel among Hindus and will use some of the teaching shared here on this blog.
I’m following some good teaching form….
Peter Youngren, Joseph Prince, Andrew Wommack, Pastor Chris – All Grace based teaching and nothing to do with religion.
thank you
bhav
March 27, 2013 at 1:01 pm
Bhav,
God bless you. Let me know if there is anything I can do to help.
April 9, 2013 at 7:45 am
I have goose bumps from reading all of this. To everyone who responded so kindly to the people who had questions and doubts, may God bless you. All I know is that my life has dramatically changed since I invited Jesus Christ our Lord into my life. I am not religious, but instead have a wonderful relationship with Him.
Jill
April 10, 2013 at 5:58 am
As I have learned over the years, trying is religion. Jesus never said try in His Word he said “know me”. If you let Jesus captured you heart you would not be trying anymore because you will be living it. There wouldn’t be no more trying. Let Jesus capture your heart.
April 10, 2013 at 9:03 am
Tubs,
Thank you for your comment. I must disagree with you, however. That is not at all what I intend to say with this blog post. Trying does not equal religion; or at least it doesn’t always equal religion. It totally depends on WHY you are trying.
It should be clearly understood that the bible calls us to try to live how God wants us. We are to try to live like Jesus did. In 1 Cor 9:27 Paul says that he “disciplines his body to keep it under control.” He exhorts Timothy to “toil and strive” (1 Tim 4:9-11). We are to “strive to excel in building up the church” (1 Cor 14:12). Paul provides us an example by telling the Church that “we labor, working with our own hands.” (1 Cor 4:12) He testifies the he “worked harder than any of them [the other Apostles]” (1 Cor 15:10). He addresses us as “fellow workers and laborers” (1 Cor 16:16). He calls us to “walk in a manor worthy of the Lord…bearing fruit in every good work” (Col 1:10). Paul says “For this I toil, struggling with all his energy that he powerfully works within me” (Col 1:29). He goes on to exhort us “Whatever you do, work heartily, as for the Lord and not for men” (Col 3:23). Paul provides his example by saying “For you remember, brothers, our labor and toil: we worked night and day, that we might not be a burden to any of you, while we proclaimed to you the gospel of God” (1 Thes 2:9, see also 2 Thes 3:8). He tells us to “devote ourselves to good works” (Tit 3:14). The author of Hebrews says we should “strive to enter that rest, so that no one may fall to disobedience” (Heb 4:11). There are countless more I could list.
Clearly it is not “trying” that is bad. The above verses (among many others) make it very easy to see that as Christians we are indeed called to strive, toil, work, obey, and labor. These are descriptions of “trying”. Not just trying but trying very hard!
“And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works…” ~Heb 10:24
When then, does it become religion? The answer to this question is what I was attempting to explain in this blog. It is all about why you are working. Why are you trying? It is because you think you can earn God’s love or favor? Do you think you can make him love you more by doing good things? If so, THIS is religion. If you think it is like earning a reward, then you are working from religion.
However, that is not why Paul and the other New Testament authors worked hard. Paul understood that his good works were worthless. . .
“Indeed, if others have reason for confidence in their own efforts, I have even more! I was circumcised when I was eight days old. I am a pure-blooded citizen of Israel and a member of the tribe of Benjamin—a real Hebrew if there ever was one! I was a member of the Pharisees, who demand the strictest obedience to the Jewish law. I was so zealous that I harshly persecuted the church. And as for righteousness, I obeyed the law without fault.
I once thought these things were valuable, but now I consider them worthless because of what Christ has done. Yes, everything else is worthless when compared with the infinite value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have discarded everything else, counting it all as garbage, so that I could gain Christ and become one with him. I no longer count on my own righteousness through obeying the law; rather, I become righteous through faith in Christ. For God’s way of making us right with himself depends on faith.” ~ Philippians 3:4-9
Paul understood that he had to discard these attempts to earn favor from God and rely only on God to make up the gap and save him. He threw his pitiful attempts to earn God’s favor away like last week’s garbage. He understood that it is not what YOU do that earns you favor in God’s eyes but it is what JESUS did on the cross.
However, it was the understanding of how much grace and mercy God had shown him that made him want to work so hard. He worked hard out of love for God and a desire to show gratitude with his life. He also worked hard to gain an eternal reward in heaven. God promises that he will reward all the work that is genuinely done for His glory. Paul “strived toward the goal, to win the prize” (Phil 3:14).
So, it is not trying that is religious. If so, then we should just do whatever we want. That is NOT biblical Christianity. We are still called to try and try as hard as we can. But, our reason for trying has changed. We now try out of love and gratitude and in expectation of an eternal reward that will never fade away.
April 16, 2013 at 8:07 am
🙂 Awesome, agreed. Now I know
April 16, 2013 at 8:07 am
Wondering are you a pastor?
April 16, 2013 at 12:26 pm
Yes I am a pastor, but not vocationally (that isn’t what I get paid to do). I am an Elder/pastor at The Bridge Church of Snohomish County. I also work as an Engineer at The Boeing Company. Glad I could help. God bless.
April 17, 2013 at 5:37 am
I am doing a research paper on Christianity vs Religion how being a Christian is religious or a religion. do you have advice for me to put into the paper?
May 23, 2013 at 7:04 am
Good morning Mr. Driscoll How are you? I do believe in the Word of God. I do believe Christianity is not a religion of system of rules it is based on relationship with our Lord Jesus Christ. Their are so much cult religions out their in the world that is based on a system of rules by man. Since we have a relationship and believe in our Lord Jesus Christ. The enemy wants to hurt us by killing us off because we believe in our Lord Jesus Christ and not a false God..
June 1, 2013 at 9:16 am
So you’ve made up your own definition of “religion” that conveniently allows you to distance yourself from religions you disagree with. Just because Christianity only has one rule–“believe that Jesus Christ came to earth and died for your sins”–doesn’t make it not a religion. “You must believe in this particular god” is still a rule. You just made up the part about how true religions require “belief + performance of works.” It’s something you invented to set Christianity apart as a non-religion. But words mean things, and that’s not what “religion” means in the English language.
Merriam-Webster defines religion as:
1 a : the state of a religious
b (1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance
2: a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices
3 archaic : scrupulous conformity : conscientiousness
4: a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith
All of these prominent sources call Christianity a religion:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity
http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/american_english/Christianity?q=christianity
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Christianity
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/christianity
http://ahdictionary.com/word/search.html?q=Christianity&submit.x=13&submit.y=19
I suppose everyone is free to make up their own definition of words, but you can hardly blame the rest of the world for not acknowledging your invented definition.
June 1, 2013 at 10:38 am
Amanda,
First off, thanks for the comment. I hope you understand that what I have written comes from a desire to help you and others. I don’t have any desire to argue or attack you. It is certainly perfectly fine if we disagree on this. I wish you the best and hope that just because we don’t agree doesn’t mean we can’t do so with goodwill and respectfully.
I appreciate your point that many dictionaries and other sources do not define religion as I have done here. I know and understand this. The truth is that there is not great agreement on the actual definition. I surveyed several sources with widely differing definitions. There are also many that include my definition as one of the definitions for religion, so I am not out in left field by myself here. Consider these:
I could certainly site others. Notice the use of practices, obligation, activity, devotion, and rituals above. So no, I didn’t make this up. The point here is that there is certainly a use and way in which the word religion can mean exactly what I am saying here. I think that the vastly different definitions for this word show that you can’t claim the exclusivity of one definition. I think this gives me some room to point out that there is a major element contained in all of all the world religions that is absolutely missing in Christianity.
If you want to argue that this doesn’t make Christianity NOT a religion, fine. That just comes down to an argument over how you want to define religion. As Patrick McNamara once said, “Try to define religion and you invite an argument.” Indeed. But it isn’t a very beneficial argument. The point is that there is something vastly different about Christianity. This is the point you are missing here. There is something common to all religions that is absent in Christianity.
You say “You must believe in this particular god” is still a rule”. But this is not true. Belief is NOT something you can chose to do. It is not an action. You don’t perform it. It is a state of being. It is something you either possess or you don’t possess. It is like the color of your skin. I can’t change the color of my skin by doing anything.
Think about it, if I told you right now to “believe” there is a pink elephant floating above your head now, could you? What if I offered to pay you $200 if you believed that? No you could not. You could think about a pink elephant but you do not actually believe it is floating over your head. This is because your will does not control your beliefs. You believe what you think is actually true based on the evidence you observe. If belief is not an action of your will, then it isn’t something you actually control. You either have it or you don’t. Rules are about choices. Rules govern behavior, not mental states of being.
Additionally, I agree that Christianity depends on belief. Belief is a requirement, but this is not an action you perform. It is something you either have or don’t have. If you possess it, it is something given to you by God. This is made clear in the bible in Ephesians 2:8-10. Similarly, all other religions require belief. Even non-religions require belief. Everyone has belief. This is because it is a state of mind. You believe something. You cannot be absent belief. If “belief in something” is the state of every person in the world it is unfair to point to belief as a rule particular to Christianity.
Yes, Christianity requires belief, but so does anything else. So does Buddhism, Islam, Shintoism, or even atheism. But, there is a fundamental difference about Christianity from all the other world religions that you are refusing to acknowledge: that is all that is required . . . faith. Every other religion adds to this works, rituals, acts of service, essentially requiring you to earn it yourself. You can say that Christianity is still a religion, but this doesn’t change this undeniable difference. There is truly something VERY unique about Christianity. This is the point I am trying to get across here. Jesus has already done all the work for you. He has earned your redemption and restoration. He has actually dealt with sin and evil and addressed it (something no other religions does). Christianity is the only one to address the problem of evil and offer a solution.
You said,” you just made up the part about how true religions require “belief + performance of works.” Ok. I don’t agree that I made it up. I’m not that original. I am certainly not that smart. But, even if what you say is true and I made up that all other religions require belief + works, am I wrong? Is this not an accurate statement? Think about it for a moment. What religion doesn’t require you to DO something in addition to having faith in order to earn your way back to God? What other religion says that nothing you do will ever get you closer to God and that all your attempts to “do good things” to earn favor from God or earn heaven are “worthless”? What other religion has God doing the work needed to make it right Himself? Don’t you agree there is something very unique and special here?
I sincerely wish you the best, Amanda. I pray that you will not see this response as argumentative. Regardless of whether you and I agree on if Christianity is a religion or not, I hope that we can both agree on the vast, amazing way in which it is different and unique. I hope that you will spend some time considering how different Christianity is. I truly think that it is the only one that makes any sense. I do not understand how anyone could think that sinful, flawed humans can try to earn our own way to a perfect and holy God. Even if I were perfect and totally righteous from this day on, it doesn’t erase all the evil I have done in my past. How can I expect a perfectly just God to overlook the things I have already done? I can never earn this. I know I am a sinner and I know that my penalty needs to be paid and I can’t pay it. Then here is the offer of Christianity: God offers to pay it for me. This actually makes sense, since He is the only one qualified to pay it. This allows Him to remain just, punishing the evil but also to display His love by not giving me what I deserve.
God bless,
Jake McWhirter
June 6, 2013 at 8:27 am
Jake, I so enjoyed your article…the scripture specifically states that we must “Obey” Gods Law…not to be confused with “Religion” or “Works” as many would suggest…I believe in the literal “Word of God” which is breathed by God and only God…when Men attempt to take God’s word and slice it up any way they please to exact their earthly mission or agendai…attempting to “Play God” for whatever reason…then this is tragic because in the end many will think they are “Heaven Bound” when in actuality they are being deceived and remaining in their ignorance at the sake of “Truth” and allowing a Man (Preacher) to do all the work while sitting in church on Sunday never having given any thought or concern to testing or checking “all” things…”Does this line up with The Word of God”??…There is only one God, One Body, One Church anything other than the word of God is heretical and of this world…that includes “Denominations”…God is not the “Author of Confusion” rather His desire for a church was a “forethought” not an “afterthought”…and never did God mean to have his Body “Chopped Up”…Go to THETRUTHABOUT.NET….
In Christ Enduring Love,
Maryjo
June 6, 2013 at 12:00 pm
Maryjo,
Thanks for the comment. I absolutely agree with you. God saved us not because of our works, but he also has called us to do works which he has appointed for us. Consider Eph 2:8-10. This idea is made explicit.
I talk some about this idea in some of my response to comments. Consider my response to Matiny’s comment above.
June 9, 2013 at 2:54 pm
Thanks. I’m not Mr. Driscoll, but Jake welcomes you 🙂
June 18, 2013 at 3:13 am
I really love this page,because it is saying the truth
July 1, 2013 at 5:14 pm
Id’e just like to say thank you so much to philippians1v21’s response to Marion as it was exactly what I needed to hear at the right time to give me that boost and clear my own mind, I believe God did really inspire you to write it, Jesus paid our sins and full and Christianity is a gift not a religion, bang on wish I noticed that earlier, Thank you and God bless.
July 3, 2013 at 8:17 pm
I am so glad I found this page. Thank you so much for clearing things up for me. I have a question for you philipians. Could you please help me understand the tithe in the Church. There is so much controversy on this topic. I thought that was something that was done only in the old testament. I would greatly appreciate your help in helping me understanding this topic. Thanks.
July 3, 2013 at 10:36 pm
Abby, thanks. I’m glad I could help. You ask a very good question about tithing. It is true that in the Old Testament the Jews were required to give a tenth (10%) of everything they earned to God. Hence the word tithe. However, we are not under the law anymore so this requirement doesn’t directly apply to us. Many Christians will mistakingly try to apply this to us today, but I never do so.
Like many New Testament ideas it is much more ambiguous (and fuzzy) than the old Law. In some ways the law was easier because it was so cut and dry. The New Covenant is all about relationship and listening the the guiding of the Holy Spirit. There are very few cut and dry rules. Because we each have the Holy Spirit we are given much more freedom to listen to His individual guidance for each of us. This does not mean it is easier now or that the call to holiness is less high. It just means we need to put out a little more work to determine what we should do. We should pray and ask the Spirit to help us know how much we should give.
Whenever I am asked what percentage we are required to give now I always answer “100%”. Jesus calls for 100% of our lives. He asked the Rich Young Ruler (Matt 19:17-26) to give up everything and His call is the same for us. He says whoever loves this life will lose it but whoever gives up this life will gain life (John 12:25). This means you can’t come to Jesus and say “you can have 10%”. It is all or nothing (Romans 12:1). The call in the New Testament is much higher.
This doesn’t mean you literally have to give all your money to the Church. It could mean that, but most likely not. It means you should pray about what percentage of God’s money you should keep. He has given it to you so that you can use it for His glory. Your money is like the talents given to the servants in Matthew 25:14-30. God has entrusted it to you so that you can make wise use of His money. We should alwyas be looking for what will bring the greatest glory to God. Ultimately, we will all answer for what we did with it. You can bring glory to Him by loving and caring for your family. He calls us to do this. But, he also calls us to act like we are aliens here and this isn’t our true home. There isn’t one set percentage for everyone, but all Christians should be generous and to give sacrificially (like the example of the widow in Mark 12:41-44 also Paul’s instruction in 1 Timothy 6:17-18)
Typically 10% is a good starting point but you should always be striving to grow more in your giving. I have found that you cannot out give God. My personal experience is the more I give the greater He blesses me. This doesn’t mean it is always financial, but God does bless us that way too. Give sacrificially (enough that it hurts and requires faith). Give regularly (to your local church body). And give cheerfully. God loves a cheerful giver (2 Cor 9:7). If you give out of compulsion you might as well not give at all. These three principles are good general guidelines to help you.
God bless,
Jake M.
July 7, 2013 at 3:14 pm
I’m sorry to tell this but Christianity is indeed a religion. Also in the so called evangelical churches (that claim it’s about having a relationship with Christ) a lot of religious activity is taken place (tithing, church attendance, obidience to leaders/holy men, rituals like baptism/holy supper, offerings, etc) One of the first things church has taught me was that it’s about having a PERSONAL relationship with Christ… but others set the rules and principles for that relationship. Christianity (or Churchianity) is so institutionalized that it, in my opinion, is totally different from following Jesus. I try to follow Jesus and not the religion called Christianity. I do not agree with a lot of christian views. When somebody asks if I’m a Christian; I answer by stating that it depends on what he means with the word ‘christian’.
July 8, 2013 at 5:05 pm
Edwin,
Thanks for your comment. I think responded to yourself. Let’s compare the first and last sentences of your comment. You said, “I’m sorry to tell this but Christianity is indeed a religion.” Then you said, “When somebody asks if I’m a Christian; I answer by stating that it depends on what he means with the word ‘christian’”. I totally agree that it depends on what you mean by “Christian”. I just think it is strange that you emphatically insist Christianity is always a religion and then say that it depends on what you mean by “Christian”.
In the same way that you could be called a “Christian” but you don’t follow all the “rules” and don’t go in for the “internationalization” is the same way I am saying Christianity (true Christianity) is not a religion. It would seem that you actually agree with me. You define your beliefs as “following Jesus” and you say this is “totally different” from “Churchianity” that is religious. You “Follow Jesus not the religion called Christianity”. Fair enough. So do I. That is actually what I mean above when I am talking about Christianity. So we agree. True Christianity isn’t religious.
You also say that “so called evangelical churches (that claim it’s about having a relationship with Christ) a lot of religious activity is taken place (tithing, church attendance, obedience to leaders/holy men, rituals like baptism/holy supper, offerings, etc)”. I agree that activity is taking place but just because people are doing things doesn’t necessarily make them religious. It could be religion, and I’m sure for many it is. But that doesn’t mean it is always religion for all of them. I do many of these things, but I don’t do them to earn favor with God. I certainly give money to the church but not because I am compelled to, or because I think it gets me favor in God’s eyes. I do it because I want to help support the church and pay the pastor who gives so much to me and because I want to help others and because I love God and it is an act of worship. You can give something freely without it being religion. It’s only religion if you are under compulsion or if you are doing it to earn something. By your understanding no one could never do anything good, help anyone, or ever attend church or they would be religious. This is ridiculous. You simply don’t grasp what religion is and how it is different than love, joyous giving, serving, appreciation, and celebration. Don’t be so quick to judge the “so called evangelical churches”. Most have it more right than wrong.
July 8, 2013 at 10:04 pm
Thanks for your reply. Indeed we do agree in a lot of things. The thing is that I have heard this statement (christianity is not a religion) too often. I really believe it is a statement by which people look down on others (i.e. so called religious people) I am not saying that you do (sorry for my english… It’s not my mother tongue) You say that you give money and a lot of other things because you want to do this and without compulsion. But how can we say that, when a Jew is keeping the Sabbath, he is religious? Perhaps he wants to do this because he believes it to be a good and healthy thing and not a rule that he has to observe or else…
We must be honest to others and ourselves! When a pastor (and I have done this also…) is teaching about tithing -a lot of times Malachi 3:8 is quoted. ‘Can a man steel from God?’ Than it is said that it’s not a rule but something you do out of your free will!
My reaction above is perhaps somewhat raw. I have been a member of a G12 church that claimed to be non-religious. But we were forced to do a lot of things (unwritten rules and regulations) and I have seen this in a lot of other churches too. So I’m a little bit ‘hurt’ by a statement like this (that’s why I felt to put some oil on the fire;-)
I’m just saying: we’re more religious than we want to be…
July 9, 2013 at 7:27 am
In Christ Jake
Thank you so much for who you are in Christ and everything you do for His Kingdom. Top through bottom, I gave my time because I saw God’s glory in you. As I am looking for help for the whole thought I had, I found in the right track. Honestly, I am so close to you that I am your contemporary. for HIS kingdom on this earth.
August 18, 2013 at 6:27 pm
How can i view christianity other than following a set of rules? I realize that my works don’t save me. But whats the point of following them if they don’t save us? Maybe its to prove our love and faithfulness for God? But if thats the case then the rules are being put on a petistool. Because if u dont follow them then it shows that u have superficial faith. What if following the rules brings us closer to God? Well then the rules are the focus; they’re on a petistool again because following them brings u closer to God but if u dont follow them ur distancing urself from God. If the work is done by Jesus and im saved from my sins then why can’t i get drunk or have sex or do things that im tempted to do? We put SO much emphasis on how: If u have faith in Jesus then ur saved and going to heaven (which i believe). And also that: God will always forgive u if u sin and repent (which i believe); so if those two things are true whats the point of rules? Why cant we give into temptation and then repent? Im just saying; either christians disregard the rules and do what they want which proves superficial faith, or christians follow the rules to grow closer to God which makes following rules the focus because its ur stepping stone to grow closer to God. I just have trouble wrapping my head around where rules should be at in my faith and how i should follow them and how much of my focus i should have on following the rules God tells us to follow. Also i feel like i have a hard time grasping what James means when he says “faith without good works is dead”. That is engraved in my mind to believe that if you are not following rules then u do not have real faith. And by rules i mainly mean drunkenness and sex. Its annoying being in college and going to FCA every wednesday and bonding with people over conversations about Jesus, then seeing the same people get drunk and have sex on the weekends. So if they are saved and going to heaven then why should i discipline myself not to fall into the same temptations as them? If we are all going to end up in heaven then why should i try so hard not to have pre marital sex or do whatever sinful thing im tempted to do? I feel like my view of christianity is what u consider religion. But i have no idea what true FAITH is. Or what true christianity is. Or what God truly wants from me. Because my christian upbringing and what i’ve been taught has had an affect on how i interpret the Bible so i don’t know how to find this true faith because i don’t know what it is and my bible reading skills have me interpret the Bible maybe differently than u do.
August 20, 2013 at 11:51 am
Colby,
Thank you for your comment. I think I understand your struggle. I will try to clarify what I meant and give my perspective on your questions.
When I contrast religion and Christianity I am specifically talking about this factor of earning our righteousness. Other religions require us to earn it by works and good deeds. Christianity is different in that we are not required to earn it, it is a gift from God who earned it for us. This is not to say that as a result of this gift there are not rules that we are to follow. Of course there are. The difference is the order of things. In religions you must do God works to appease God and earn his favor. In Christianity God is appeased by Christ’s good works and his favor is given BEFORE we do ANYTHING good. We come empty, with nothing good to bring, in desperate need of God to fix it. God steps in and removes our guilt (by placing it on Jesus at the cross) and we are washed clean. Christianity is a realization that we can NEVER be good on our own.
When a person does this God changes them forever. I think this is what you fail to grasp completely. You ask, “But what’s the point of following them [rules] if they don’t save us? Maybe it’s to prove our love and faithfulness for God?” But this is not right. It has nothing to do with our faithfulness to God (thank goodness). Our faithfulness sucks. It’s the other way around. It proves God’s faithfulness to us. You see, you can’t follow the “rules” by your own power. It takes God’s work inside you. When a Christian becomes more like Jesus, it is the result of the Holy Spirit’s work in them, not their own effort. Therefore when they notice they are a different person than they used to be it is God who gets the credit. It proves His faithfulness to them.
When a person is saved, the Holy Spirit enters that person and begins a process of changing their heart. A new believer will often say things like this: “It’s strange, I used to want to do these things but now I find they really repulse me and I have all these strange desires to show genuine love to people and respect them.” They change at their deepest level. They find they are gradually living the “rules” without even working that hard at it. This is because they have a new heart. It has replaced their old heart that lived to serve its selfish interests. These “rules” just remind them of what their new desires truly are.
Here is another way in which Christianity is different (from religion): even after salvation, it isn’t about us following rules by our effort. It is about God gifting us a new heart that has a new set of wants and desires that align with His rules. Then He enters us and gradually goes about changing our wants to further align with His so that, more and more, we find ourselves living the way He has said is right. We follow the “rules” because we are changed. It isn’t religion to do that which I most want to do. Religion is forcing people to do what you want them to do and that which they do NOT wish to do.
The “rules” (as you call them) are God’s will, plan and intention for all people. They are the right way to live. They are actually the way that results in the most pleasure, joy, peace, and happiness for us. A Christian doesn’t follow them begrudgingly and reluctantly, assuming they are there to limit our joy and kill our fun. God is not the cosmic party-popper. That’s the oldest lie in the book (remember the serpent’s lie to Adam and Eve, Gen 3:4-5). A follower if Jesus will learn that when they live His way, they are actually happier, freer, more content, and at peace than when they were going their own way. These rules are actually for our good.
It is like a loving parent with a young child. The parent wants good for the child and sets up rules to help the child make good choices that they are not equipped to make themselves. A child doesn’t know that running down the stairs will result in pain for them, but the parent does. Following the loving parent is the best way for the child. Similarly, a genuine follower of Jesus has come to Him because they realize their own way is futile and results in hurt, pain, and death for themselves and others. They turn to Jesus and agree to go His way because it is the best way. They realize their own inclination and natural way of thinking is incapable of seeing all ends and is prone to leading them astray. God has changed their heart so that they can begin to see the wisdom in following Christ’s path. They WANT to live the way God has said. Like the child they gradually learn that when they disobey the parent it ultimately results in discomfort, pain, guilt, and relational consequences. They learn that when they obey, they are at peace with a free conscience, not weighed down by guilt, have an unexplainable joy, and harmony in their relationships. This is what Jesus meant when He said “My burden is light and my yoke is easy” (Matt 11:30).
A true believer in Jesus will have a hard time continuing to do it their way. If you have really been saved you will be changed. Your deepest desires are no longer the same. You will still have competing desires that wage war against your new desires, but they are the foreign ones now (see Romans 7:13-24). You may be able to embrace the old, foolish ways for a while but it is be harder for you. You will feel this new sensation…the conviction of the Holy Spirit. You will feel the weight of conviction grow. For a true believer this feels like ugliness inside them. It grows until the point where this robs any potential happiness the sin would have given. It is immediately replaced with nothing but ugliness and shame. It can take some time to get to this point (perhaps years for some people). But a true Christian can never continue to act in a manner that is contrary to their new character, indefinitely. This is what John tells us in 1 John 3:6. . .
You cannot have an encounter with a semi-truck and walk away unchanged. How much less so an encounter with the living God?! The person who life continues to reflect the old pattern of sin, and who lacks even a root desire for something different, should look closely at themselves to see if they are really in the light (2 Cor 13:5). If you are not a different person than you were before (with new desires and the conviction of the Holy Spirit in your heart) then you should question if you have ever really been saved. I cannot know this for you. Only you can God can determine it.
You ask, “If God will always forgive you of sin then what’s the point in obeying?” This question blows my mind because I just can’t imagine intentionally presuming on God’s forgiveness like that. More than that, I can’t imagine intentionally hurting God because I know He is forgiving. Take that idea to any other relationship you have and apply it. If I know my wife is a very loving and forgiving person and would forgive me if I have an affair why shouldn’t I just do it? Because I love my wife!! Because I care more about HER happiness and joy than I do some temporary gratification that will only serve to destroy me and the other person and damage my relationship with my wife.
This question shows me something very troubling. It reveals a lack of love for God. A person who actually has a real relationship with God will love God. They will want to obey Him in order to make Him smile and bring Him joy. The idea to intentionally sin because they know God would forgive them is unthinkable. As Paul says, “by no means!” (Rom 6:1-2). Someone who understands that they deserve hell (justly and rightly) but that God has chosen them to save by taking their place and dying for them would be blown away by this unfathomable act of love. Such love strips you bare of all self and prompts a person to love such a God in a very personal and real way. Such love begets love. Love does not rejoice in wrongdoing or seek its own way (1 Cor 13:5-6).
You are speaking of Christianity as if it were just a transaction. Have faith, get salvation . . . transaction over. Christianity is about a relationship between you and God . . . that lasts forever. It isn’t just believing in Him and then going about your life, your way. You can’t add Jesus on to your life. You must come to Him and lay your whole life down at His feet along with all your sin and pick up His cross and follow after Him. It may seem like the cross is heavy and burdensome, but the more you carry it you realize Jesus is doing all the heavy lifting. He is doing the real work, not you. The burden is light.
You say, “What if following the rules brings us closer to God? Well then the rules are the focus; they’re on a pedestal again because following them brings you closer to God but if you don’t follow them you’re distancing yourself from God.” You have this backwards again. It isn’t following the rules that brings you closer to God, it is perusing God that changes your desires and allows you to live out the “rules”. The focus is NOT the rules, but God. Follow God. Pursue God. Fall deeper in love with God. Learn more about Him. Study His words. Test His promises. See if His words prove true and if His way is really best. Talk to Him. Bring your struggles and doubts to Him. You will find that as you do this, you will realize the rules make a lot more sense to you and you somehow are following them by choice. That’s when you realize it isn’t really you that is carrying the weight of that cross.
You said, “If the work is done by Jesus and I’m saved from my sins then why can’t I get drunk or have sex or do things that I’m tempted to do?” I have tried to explain here that it isn’t just about getting saved. People forget that Jesus said the way (path) is narrow, not just the gate (Matt 7:13-14). To be saved is to walk in the way of the Lord. The person who is truly saved desires this. He does not lead to sex and drunkenness. But, where He does lead is so much better! This doesn’t mean Christians are never tempted (or don’t sometimes give into temptation), but their deepest desire is to follow Jesus where He leads. When they sin they feel guilt and conviction (as I described above) and their joy is restored by confession and repentance. Of course, there are practical answers to your questions above that show why these things are not really in your best interest. God wants what is best for you. Being a Christian means trusting Him because He knows more than you.
I hope this response helps you. I will be praying for you, Colby, that you will be able to test your faith to see if you are really a child of God who posses love for Him and a desire to follow His way. Please let me know if I can help more.
Jake
August 20, 2013 at 2:18 pm
As a Christian I have the freedom of choice to do whatever I like, whenever I want to do it. However as with all things in life there are consequences for our actions as well has blessings which result from our actions.
Through being kind, generous & helpful not only do we bless others but we are also blessed in return. Our salvation may not depend on our actions but our quality of life and enjoyment of life is definitely effected by them.
Our love of God motivates us to share love with others and they in turn see that we serve a God of love and kindness. In serving others we make ourselves less than them and we serve God at the same time not because we have to in order to earn our salvation but simply because we love him and desire to do what pleases him and blesses others.
It is the same with those that we love here on earth we serve them and do good things for them not because we are obliged to or have to but simply because we love them and want to please them and make them happy or ease their load. Since God commands us to love others this love should naturally be demonstrated in our actions just as our love of friends and family is witnessed in our actions.
We’re human and humanity brings with it both good & evil. When we follow & serve God by loving others we overcome evil.
Love isn’t just a noun it is a verb, an action word and thus it naturally requires action on our part. However these acts of love should not be self serving or because we want to achieve something from them as would be the case with earning ones salvation through good deeds.
1st Corinthians says….
If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast,[b] but do not have love, I gain nothing.
Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
This is the type of love that God asks of us but then leaves it up to us to decide whether or not we are willing to show this type of love to others. His Holy Spirit meanwhile guides us and we want to love in this manner without the need for coercion, force, threats or bribery.
August 20, 2013 at 2:23 pm
Well said Nina.
Sent from my iPad
August 20, 2013 at 2:41 pm
I should add that certain things that some would consider arbitrary rules such as no sex, not getting drunk etc… are there for our own protection and the protection of others.
Sexual relations are considered holy and sacred between a husband & wife. Outside of marriage sexual relations become self serving and involve a lot of personal risk as well as risk to our sexual partners. Keeping ourselves for our future wife or husband is an act of love for them and for ourselves, it is an act of respect & honour because if we aren’t prepared to commit our lives to that person why would we give them a part of ourselves that is intended to be kept for our husband and wife. We disrespect them in this way by saying with our bodies “you’re good enough for sex but I don’t consider you good enough for marriage.” Add to that the risk of STD’s and cervical cancer not to mention unwanted pregnancy and the resulting issues that come with that and God has shown us his love and protection just as a good father would by telling us to keep ourselves pure for marriage.
With regards to drunkenness the same applies… look what can happen when a person is drunk. Being drunk means losing control of some part of our body & life which can lead to all sorts of problems ranging from stupid mistakes, hangovers to addiction and liver disease, Why risk it? God wants us to be safe and healthy he does not want us to suffer in any way so he warns us but leaves it up to us to decide whether or not we will heed his warning or whether we will risk and no doubt suffer the consequences.
Alcohol is not forbidden as even Jesus drank wine. It is the abuse of alcohol that God warns us against. Drunkenness is alcohol abuse.
I hope this helps you understand our perspective better. We don’t see Gods forbidding of premarital sex & drunkenness as dictatorial control as a rebellious child or perhaps teenager often would, We see it as love, protection and discipline intended for our own good.
How we respond to this is up to us. We can choose to weaken and give into the temptation & thus suffer the consequences or we can choose to stand strong & resist in His name & for our own sake.
It’s up to us!
August 23, 2013 at 11:47 am
Thank you Jake and Nina for your helpful comments i greatly appreciate it!
What is the difference in loving someone and supporting and/or turnig a blind eye to someones sin? Say a follower of Christ constantly struggles with something; maybe they get drunk consitantly. It is our job to love them, not judge and to be there for them. But how would you guys go about loving them but at the same time try and get across to them that there actions aren’t the best?
Also i feel like i struggle with trying to live other peoples lives or something. I get so caught up in every right or wrong decision that they make and never just focus on my own. For example there’s been people talk to me about changing or making better decisions and i feel like we make a break through then they just keep making the same mistakes. And i put it on my shoulders and get really upset at them about it. (Even though in reality im making mistakes over and over again too just in different areas). Again, thats my pridefulness and maybe lack of faith in God that is really giving me trouble but i dont know how to fix it.
Also what do you guys do to seek God and have that genuine relationship with Him? I feel so desperate to be consumbed by the Holy Spirit and be alinged with Christ but my pridefulness and selfishness constantly get in the way. God has revealed Himself to me in undeniable ways a couple times in my life but there’s still this wall between us. At times i completely connect with His word but a lot of times i struggle with understanding His message. I just feel like im in a huge funk right now. My prayer life feels disconnected and my reading does as well. Maybe its hard for you to relate to my situation but i feel lost on how i can find Him even though i know He’s right there waiting for me.
August 23, 2013 at 5:48 pm
Welcome to the world of being an imperfect human being.
Can I ask you a few questions…
What exactly do you want from God?
Do you need a miracle to prove to you that he loves you & is there?
Are you any less sinful than those who get drunk?
Most importantly…
Do you trust God in His infinite Wisdom to know what is best?
As a Christian if I personally distance myself from those who are caught up in a destructive sinful habit & are not repentant. I figure God will convict them in His own time and in His own way but I also do this for the protection of my family and especially my children. If the Christian who repetitively gets drunk is unrepentant then what more can you do other than mop up their mess and help those they hurt. You can’t help someone who doesn’t want help and if the person who is constantly getting drunk is a devout Christian then it is likely they are experiencing a fair amount of guilt & shame and quite possibly could be alcoholics. In these circumstances they need help and I would point them in the direction of their Pastor or a Councillor or some other person who is more gifted in the area of helping those with addictions than I am. You could confront them and tell them that their destructive behaviour is hurting them & others and that they need to stop & to get help but beyond that there isn’t much more you can do because if they don’t want help & don’t see the problem they will keep up the behvaviour and there is nothing you can do except wait for them to realise they have a problem and need help and then you can step in and help. In the meantime the only thing you can do is clear a path so others don’t get hurt or caught up in their destruction and pray, pray, pray for them and those who love them,
As for getting closer to God…. I have times when I feel so distant from God that it hurts & others when His love overwhelms me.
When I look at the blessings in my life I am so thankful for his provision & his love that it is inconceivable that He could NOT exist and be there with me. When I am overwhelmed with the love I have for my children I know that this type of love comes from someone and is only a shadow of the love God has for His children.
When I look at the hurt in the world & the pain and suffering in the world there too I can see the good & evil in man and know that it had to come from somewhere. I sometimes don’t understand how God can let things happen but I have to trust that He can turn all things to good and that he does not want any of us to suffer. That’s why He gave us Jesus.
But when I get caught up in the day to day monotony and start wallowing in the little discomforts & disappointments in life etc then I can sometimes feel like He isn’t even there. At these times I have to choose to believe & choose to continue to live as would be pleasing to Him, to carry on and to have faith and to let this overcome my doubts.
Reading His word, Fellow-shipping & surrounding myself with other believing friends, praying, giving thanks, being around those that I love, singing & listening to worship music these all make me feel closer to Him.
But all Christians have doubts & difficulties, all lapse sometimes in their faith.
Remember even Jesus called out:”My God, My God why hast thou forsaken me!”
This cry to God should not be confused with despair. In despair, we give up on our relationship to God and let it go. Even in in this crying out, Jesus still acknowledged the very existence & authority of God.
We have no capacity to appreciate the utterly horrific experience of having the sins of the world put upon the Lord Jesus as He hung, in excruciating pain, from that cross. The physical pain was immense. The spiritual one must have been even greater. At this time he was bearing the worlds sin and because of it He felt separated from God.
Yet Still He acknowledged God’s power & authority.
Another example is in Luke 22…
Jesus is preparing for his fast approaching death and He prays “Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done.”
Again you can imagine his human side wanting to be free from the suffering he knew he was to endure but at the same time accepting that God in His infinite wisdom knew what was required and that His Will must be done.
For me at times I have doubts and feel a sense of despair but when I remember these words I remind myself that He is there and that if Jesus Himself can experience a sense of being separated from God and still acknowledge Him, His power & His authority then so can I because it will pass eventually. God promises us that time & time again in scripture.
Hold onto the following verses…
Hebrews 6:10 – 12
God is not unjust; he will not forget your work and the love you have shown him as you have helped his people and continue to help them.
We want each of you to show this same diligence to the very end, so that what you hope for may be fully realized. We do not want you to become lazy, but to imitate those who through faith and patience inherit what has been promised.
Hope this helps
Nina
August 24, 2013 at 9:33 am
[…] More here: https://philippians1v21.wordpress.com/why-believe-in-jesus/why-christianity-is-not-a-religion/ […]
September 5, 2013 at 1:31 pm
Thank you pastor for teaching me the truth and it has set me free..
September 22, 2013 at 11:32 am
Jake,
I am 60 years old. I grew up Catholic on one side, and Russian Orthodox on the other. Nonetheless, Your Words are what my parents told me when I was a mere child, in that it was my faith above, and beyond our practiced religions that was first and foremost, and that is was a free gift.
Nonetheless, In my mid twenties, I was living a debauched lifestyle, though I never lost my faith, though I ignored it. I then became a Jehovah’s Witness for the next 15 years, and yet it was my faith that lead me to walk away from that “religion” in 97′. Since then, and up until three years ago, I was pretty much done with “religion”. However, these past few years I have been longing to congregate again. I’ve tried the Baptist, a Calvary congregations and few small independent congregations. But because of the “preachiness” of them all, I am drawn again, over and over to a tiny Orthodox Christian Church where preachiness is not first and foremost in the service.
Oh, yes of course the service is replete with what some would call, “the trappings of the old orthodox dogma”, but considering my faith is settled, I find it quite spiritually invigorating to go, and spend two hours doing nothing but worshiping in fellowship, in the Orthodox tradition rather than getting preached at. But, then again I will feel that twinge of guilt from my JW days that this Orthodox form of worship is full of empty tradition.
I’m curious as to your opinion on attending any one particular congregation (church of Christendom)?
September 22, 2013 at 6:02 pm
Anatole,
Glad to hear you are pursuing going to church again. It is so vital and important. Many Christians mistakingly think they can do it on there own and don’t see why going to church is necessary. God never envisioned or intended His followers to be islands unto themselves. Most of Jesus’ promises to believers are not to individuals but the Church. It is the Church that He calls His Bride. Jesus explains that is by our love for each other (brothers and sister in Christ…the Church) that people will know we are His followers. He promises to be there when we gather in groups of two or more, not alone. Paul writes his letters to churches. He makes it clear that spiritual gifts are given, not for our own purposes but for building up of the church. We need other brothers and sisters and they need us. This is why Paul calls the church “the body”. All the parts are vital and all are needed. A hand cannot function without the eye.
You can find good churches in most all denominations. Everyone has their preferences and theological distinctives that may sway them to one over the others. If you enjoy the higher church, a more liturgical and traditional style of worship expression there are plenty of great churches that do it that way. There is nothing sacred or holy about a style of worship or music. You should go where you can best worship.
That being said, there are certainly churches that are better than others. The most important thing that churches do is teaching and preaching. Everything else is secondary to this. My encouragement to you is to find a church that preaches well. By this I mean that it preaches the truth of the Bible wholly, fully, and faithfully. Some pastors are more skilled at delivery than others, but that isn’t what I mean. That is also secondary. Find a church were the pastor can teach you and you can grow. This will NOT be a church with soft, feel good, self-help, positive thinking, life enhancement, or political sermons. It will be one where you walk away feeling a little beat up. You want to go to a church that shows you God’s standard and points out where you don’t measure up, and then shows you the cross and takes you to Jesus. We ALL need this. Trust me, your faith is NOT solid. It can be stronger. You are not holy enough yet. God wants to make you more holy. You need to go where you will be challenged to grow. The Holy Spirit is not done with you yet. He will keep working until you become like Jesus.
Believe it or not, churches that preach this way are hard to find. This criteria will rule out most of them. That is why I say don’t be so picky about the other factors. Find a church that preaches the word and you have 90% of what you need. I also find at the rest usually falls into place as well. This is because people are more Christ-like when they are being taught the truth of scripture. It has that effect of you.
I encourage you to second think your position on preaching. It is truly the main reason we need to go to church. We all need to be preached at. We need to be called to repentance and called to be more like Christ. If a churches doing this, the other things will also be happening.
I should also point out that JW is not on the same team. I think you know this already since you left, but they are not worshipping the same God we are. The God of the JW is not a triune God and they do not believe Jesus is God. This is why they are not Christian. They are in the same category as Mormons in this regard.
God bless,
Jake
September 23, 2013 at 6:55 am
Thank you. Very helpful.
September 23, 2013 at 6:36 pm
“I should also point out that JW is not on the same team. I think you know this already since you left, but they are not worshipping the same God we are. The God of the JW is not a triune God and they do not believe Jesus is God. This is why they are not Christian. They are in the same category as Mormons in this regard.” – Jake
Well, that’s where you and I will have to disagree. I’ve had a somewhat unique background by being “of” the religions who are “of” the trinity doctrine, and then being “of’ a religion who was not “of” the trinity doctrine. And, then going back to an Ancient Religion which is a staunch believer and defender “of” the trinity doctrine.
At least for JW’s, I can attest by first hand knowledge, and from me, myself being a JW for 15 years that they do believe that “Jesus Christ is Lord and Savior”, and that He is “The Only Begotten Son Of God”. Nowhere have I read in God’s Word where man has to believe “in” the trinity doctrine, nor that such a requirement of faith even exists scripturaly, but surely has to believe in Christ being our Lord and Savior.
I do also know for a fact that Mormons also have a full faith that “Jesus Christ is Lord and Savior”, and that He is “The Only Begotten Son Of God”.
“Why Christianity Is Not A Religion…” Well, yes! Nonetheless, for you to to say (judge) that, “they are not on the same team” is beyond your pay grade. We are not doing the separating work, but our Lord Jesus Christ is. (“Separating the goats from the sheep…”)
This gets me thinking about what Vasia had written about the false paradigms that exist in the “religion” of Christian Orthodoxy, that ancient and original Christian movement… “The road to Hell is paved with the skulls of erring priests, with bishops as their signposts…”-St. John Chrysostom. This same comment can be made about every single Christian organization on earth today, be they of old or modern origin…” You see, all of these religions of Christendom have their particular, and at times unique false paradigms.
But if they are, “Proclaiming the Good News” (Luke 9:1-9), which they are, what commission can we claim to judge them above, and beyond that One who is commissioned by God Almighty to separate the goats for the sheep? i say none of us, us humble servants of the One and Only True God!
That said, I Do wholey understand your concern.
September 23, 2013 at 6:39 pm
Surely there are those in JW and Mormons who have faith above, and beyond their practiced religions that is first and foremost, and that they too know it as a free gift from Above…
September 23, 2013 at 10:15 pm
Anatole,
Unfortunately, it is not just important that you have faith and that you are sincere. What is important is what you have faith in. I can believe very sincerely that I can fly, but what I believe doesn’t change the truth…I cannot fly. If I jump off a building, I will fall and die regardless of what I believe. What maters is that you believe in what is true.
Jesus came and said that He alone was the way to God. He claimed this, not me. Jesus said if you don’t accept Him you don’t have the Father either. JWs and Mormons both reject Jesus as God, equal with the Father. They also reject His work on the cross as sufficient to save them. They try to add to it or supplant it. The free gift that God offers is Jesus’ work on the cross; God gifting Himself. If you refuse to acknowledge the gift you cannot accept it. Those who think they can earn heaven have stumbled over the stumbling stone. This is why Paul calls Jesus the rock of offense that causes people to stumble.
The reason Jesus is so important is that it is only the God-man that can put His hand on you and God and reconcile the two. It is only God who could pay the penalty for your sins. It had to be Jesus. Without Him the sin problem is not removed. Without accepting Jesus for who He is and what He did, you can’t be saved. This is what the bible says.
September 30, 2013 at 12:45 pm
“Religion (almost universally) is enforced by those in power in an attempt to maintain, increase, or abuse their power over others.”
LOL! This is exactly what Christianity has been doing for the past 1800 years! Read some history (legitimate history mind you, not your apologist’s revisionist propaganda).
“Religion is the creation of man and is not the intention or design of God”
Yep, and that includes Christianity which IS a religion and IS man-made. Hell, The Bible and its god are man made. Both were based upon the earlier religious texts and gods of ancient Mesopotamia. The creation myth, garden of Eden, global flood myth etc are all in the Enuma Elish which predates the Bible by millenia. Yahweh was a mere storm god serving in a pantheon of gods under the father god EL.
Sorry Christians but you must face the facts. Your religion is just as absurd an man made as Greek mythology. If there is a God(s) or creator(s) out there he/she/it doesn’t resemble anything you worship or pray to and is a far more intelligent being than the men who wrote your Bible and created the tribal totem deity found in its pages.
September 30, 2013 at 4:41 pm
DS,
Welcome to the blog. I welcome your comments and respect your right to believe whatever you want. On this page we critique arguments and debate points. We do not attack people or belittle them for their beliefs. Attacking the person is an “ad hominem” that does nothing to undermine their position. I would ask you to return the same respect you will receive. If you cannot do so, your comments will not be posted. But, if you can do so feel free to dialog. There is no harm is disagreeing. Remember what I believe doesn’t affect you. So there is no need to be hostile about it.
You said Christianity has been enforced by those in power in an attempt to abuse their power over people. You commented, “LOL! This is exactly what Christianity has been doing for the past 1800 years! Read some history (legitimate history mind you, not your apologist’s revisionist propaganda)”. What I think is odd is that I agree with you on this point. LOL! Read what I wrote. In fact, I say just that in my blog post. I start saying “This is so very common. People have used Jesus to justify adding so many “requirements” to being a Christian.” Then I list many examples of how this has been done in the Christian church! So, we agree that people have used religion within the Christian church to control people. The whole point of this blog is to illustrate how the Church has been very wrong to do this and it is NOT what Jesus Christ taught. The point I am making (but that you seem to have missed) is that Jesus was not religious and He taught people not to be religious. I never said that the Christian Church has actually followed this. In fact, I said the opposite. You are attacking a straw man.
You then proceed to make a wild and unsubstantiated claim that Christianity and God are “based on earlier religious texts and gods of ancient Mesopotamia”. This is the same old arguments made by fringe pseudo-historians that have been repeatedly and resoundingly refuted. Even the vast majority non-Christian ancient historians today recognize this for what it is, a desperate attempt to attack the bible based on little if any credible evidence. It seems like I always have to point out all the scholarly work that has been done on this topic. Where do you guys come up with this stuff? It’s like you all go to the same class of “Bad Objections to Christianity”. Or, perhaps you watched the same pseudo-documentary (ZEITGEIST Movie perhaps?). Here are a couple of good videos (the first on is short and the second one has more detail) from some elite thinkers on this subject:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6AZqOO2FJA
http://vimeo.com/39513078
The idea you present is NOT a new objection to Christianity. It is an old idea. It originated in Germany in the early 1800’s. By the 1830’s it began to die out because scholars realized there was absolutely no evidence to support it. It has surfaced again in the internet era where anyone can write and publish anything without the requirement for peer review. Many are anxious to embrace this idea and are not qualified to critically examine the evidence for themselves.
Claiming that Genesis is based on Enuma Elish (since there are similarities) is a “False Cause Fallacy”. It’s similar to saying “I knew it would rain, I just washed my car”. Washing the car may have come first, but it doesn’t necessitate the washing was a causal factor in the rain coming. The fact that a previous religion has similarities to the bible does NOT imply that they are the cause of bible. You must argue for a causal relation. You can’t just assert parallels and think that implies a causal relation. It does not.
People have alleged that the biblical writer/writers borrowed from the Babylonian record. However, sound scholarship has demonstrated that such a view is fallacious. Simpler accounts (e.g., the Genesis record) may give rise to more embellished versions, but the reverse is not the case (Kitchen, 1966, 89).
D.J. Wiseman, Professor of Assyriology at the University of London, suggests that the parallelisms between the narratives can best be explained on the basis that both suggest primary creation facts, while the Bible record reflects a “dignity unparalleled in any other account” (1958, 8).
It is true that there are certainly similarities between the Genesis account and the Enuma Elish. However, these similarities are dwarfed by the stark contrasts. Here are just a few major differences:
1. The Enuma Elish opens with the heavens and the earth, while Genesis opens with God. The gods in the Enuma Elish are not really creators. The world is part of them. On the other hand, the Genesis account tells us that first there was God, and He created the heavens and the earth (out of nothing).
2. In the Enuma Elish, as almost all other near eastern creation myths, creation is accomplished through conflict and warfare with lots of noise. In the Genesis account, however, we find a profound sense of peace and quiet. The opposite of warfare and conflict can be seen in the instant obedience of God’s divine fiat, “And God said…” “And it was so…”
3. Genesis is strictly monotheistic; the Enuma Elish is very polytheistic
4. In the Enuma Elish, magic incantations are the ultimate source of power, thus making the gods subject to nature or magic. In Genesis, power is manifest in the commands (fiat) of God, and nature is one of His obedient subjects.
5. Babylonian gods are identified with nature, but God, in Genesis, is Creator of, and distinct from, all creation.
6. Genesis reveals that God desires a relationship with humans; the Enuma Elish says that the gods created man to do their bidding
7. The Genesis account systematically includes all general realms of nature. The Enuma Elish omits major aspects of creation such as vegetation, animals, the sun and light.
8. In Genesis, God forms the heavens and the earth on the first three days. This does not take place until the fourth tablet of Enuma Elish.
9. In the Enuma Elish man will be made by one of the gods dying. The God of Genesis creates man out of the dust of the ground, and honors him by making him reflective of the greatness of his Creator.
10. Genesis shows that God allows man to choose (free will); the Enuma Elish says the burdens of the gods were imposed upon man
11. Marduk, the god of the Babylonians, was considered to be both created and begotten. The God of Genesis, however, is seen as creating, yet not created. He is before time, space, and matter.
12. Marduk is established by the gods as the ruler of the universe, while the Creator God of Genesis is supreme by merit of being the Creator of all things and before all things.
13. The gods of Enuma Elish must be supported by their creatures. They must eat. They must have relief. The God of Genesis is seen as being before time, space, and matter. Thus it is that He is recognized as needing nothing from man.
After comparing the two accounts, it becomes clear that if one is to base a conclusion off of the similarities alone, then some important differences are being ignored. While there are indeed parallels between the accounts, the differences are of such degree that there should not be as much comparison between Genesis and Enuma Elish as there should be contrasts. In the Genesis account, Moses purposefully portrays a monotheistic God who operates within the parameters of organization and peace. The Enuma Elish is polytheistic and the gods operate within the parameters of war and violence.
Enuma Elish is clearly mythological, but Genesis is not only non-mythological, but anti mythical. It is a polemic against pagan mythology. Genesis makes clear that the things mankind worships as gods are little more than the creations of the one God.
Another challenging issue for the assertion that the Genesis account is based on Enuma Elish has been the question as to when it was recorded. The story has been said to have been written anywhere from the 18th century to the 12th century BC. Many believe that Genesis was recorded in the 15th century during Israel’s wanderings in the wilderness. Either way, it is highly unlikely that Moses, with all of the biblical history recorded about him, would have borrowed creation history from a polytheistic civilization existing to his respective east, while he lived and served a monotheistic God in the respective west. Genesis is far different in nature than any of the ancient Near Eastern creation myths and therefore must not be considered among that fold.
Even secular scholars recognize this. Here is just a smattering of quotes from respected and secular Assyrologists and historians. These are the experts.
Dr. Millard (Professor Emeritus of Hebrew and Ancient Semitic Languages), observes there is no evidence for direct literary borrowing. More on this here: http://bibleapologetics.wordpress.com/tag/enuma-elish/#_ftn10
Regardless of all of this, your whole assertion here hinges on one great assumption. You said, “Sorry Christians but you must face the facts. Your religion [Christianity] is just as absurd an [sic] man made as Greek mythology.” However, is this really the case? Is there no more evidence for Christianity than for Greek mythology? If that was really true, then I would never believe it. I am a scientist and an engineer. I require evidence. I would never believe something in the absence of any supporting evidence.
Let’s look at that challenge objectively. If it is true then it should be quickly apparent that the bible is false. We shouldn’t have to look far to find examples of where the biblical accounts contradict archeology and history. But, I’m afraid after thousands of years of trying no one has yet produced one finding from archeology or history that refutes the biblical accounts! In fact, there has been so much archeological evidence confirming the bible that it has become very highly respected among archeologists. This is unlike any other ancient religious document. Consider these statements from renowned archeologists. . .
I have written a ton on this already so I won’t go into greater detail here. I encourage you to read this blog post I wrote: http://missionarybrewer.wordpress.com/2011/01/06/does-archeological-evidence-support-the-history-recorded-in-the-bible/
Here is a video that lists some of the major archeological evidence. I suggest you invest the half hour to actually review some of the evidence you claim doesn’t exist:
In addition to the substantial and mounting archeological evidence, you have the historical reality of the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. It is one of the best documented events in all of human history (and not just by the bible). You dismiss the bible, but based on what evidence? It is simply not enough to say it is suspect and disregard it without some reason to dismiss the eye-witness accounts it documents. You are not permitted to dismiss eye-witness accounts in a court of law without valid evidence to refute it. The same approach must be taken with history. Indeed, this is how historians approach ancient documented accounts.
The bible has more textual sources than any ancient document (over 24,000 for the New Testament alone). The accounts were written within a shorter period of time from when they occurred than any other ancient document (15-150 years). It is the compiled written testimony of 40 eye-witnesses. The New Testament accounts of Jesus are also attested to by 20 additional writers outside of the bible! There are as many non-Christian writers that talk about Jesus existence and what he did than there are the Roman Emperor at the time (Tiberius Caesar)! Even the enemies of Christianity at the time write that these events occurred. If you can so easily dismiss the clear weight of historical evidence here without requiring yourself to present any evidence to refute it, you should question your objectivity. Why believe that Alexander the Great really existed? You can read more on the amazing amount of textual support for the New Testament in this blog I wrote: http://missionarybrewer.wordpress.com/2013/07/08/can-the-new-testament-really-be-trusted/
Even if you completely dismiss the eye-witness accounts of Jesus in the bible (which is a biased and unscholarly approach), I can even verify the events recorded in the bible concerning Jesus’ existence, his miracles, his claim to be God, his death by crucifixion, even his resurrection from the dead, his empty tomb, the testimony of his disciples, and their willingness to be martyred for it . . . all from writings external to the bible! I can even do this from the writings of non-Christians at the time. That’s how well documented a historical reality it is.
In addition to this, there are over 300 specific prophecies about Jesus Christ in the Old Testament that he alone fulfilled. The prophecies were written down hundreds of years before his birth (as proven by the Dead Sea Scrolls). The fact that Jesus fulfilled them is attested to, not only in the bible, but in other secular historical documents. Peter Stoner was the Chairman of the Departments of Mathematics and Astronomy at Pasadena City College until 1953, and Chairman of the Science Division of Westmont College from 1953 to 1957. Stoner calculated the probability of one man fulfilling only 8 Messianic prophecies was one in 10^17. He further calculated the odds of one person fulfilling just 48 of the over 300 prophecies was one chance in 10^157! It’s ludicrous.
This is just a start for the volumes of evidence that for the bible. Clearly there is unarguably a great deal more evidence for the bible than for any ancient religion, such as Greek Mythology. Even skeptics must admit that.
I would be happy to hear your reasons for not believing in the bible and to discuss them. But, be prepared to bring your evidence to the table. Calling Christianity “absurd” and Jesus “a tribal totem deity” hardly qualifies as intellectual debate and does not at all demonstrate your position that there is no evidence for him. It is simply inflammatory mudslinging. It’s the written equivalent to sticking out your tongue at me.
Jake M.
October 10, 2013 at 7:40 pm
Pastor Driscoll, I’d like to complement your enthusiasm on the catchy notion that “Christianity is not a religion.” It certainly is a new perspective to spark interest in the new and old believers alike. Whether or not you coined the idea I do not know but I can’t help to think that it is merely a “selling gimmick” rather than an honest expression of logical thinking or even in consensus on what you define as religion.
Now mind you, this is not a theological discussion, this is a logical discussion on which I base this contention. Allow me to explain myself. My contention starts with your definition itself. The definition you used is:
Religion is a system of beliefs or a code of moral conduct that judges (qualifies or disqualifies)
a person based on their adherence and obedience to certain codes,
rules, laws, traditions, or the performance of required acts.
True, this is a valid definition of the word “religion”. But you base your entire “philosophy”, if you will, is based on one of hundreds of valid, if not even more applicable, definitions of the word “religion”.
You see, most definitions of religion are such as these:
“1. a. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
b. A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.
2. The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
3. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.
4. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.”
…www.thefreedictionary.com
or
“Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power recognized as the creator and governor of the universe;
A particular integrated system of this expression;
The spiritual or emotional attitude of one who recognizes the existence of a superhuman power or powers.”
….http://web.pdx.edu/~tothm/religion/Definitions.htm
But I’ve found, out of several definitions, one similar to your own. That is:
“1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe,
especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies,
usually involving devotional and ritual observances,
and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.”
…http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/religion
Here, it says “and often”, meaning, sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn’t include the “conduct of human affairs”. The truth of the matter, Pastor Driscoll, is that there are literally hundreds of ways to describe one thing. They more or less say the same thing. But you’ve chosen one that illustrates the idea that fits your gimmick. What bothers me is that the idea of Christianity not being a religion is contingent, for you only, on that one single phrase.
My point being, is that, based on all these definitions above, Christianity is still a religion. One might say, “But considering the latter of the three, Christianity still does not require one to perform certain actions to receive the forgiveness that Christ has given us as a result of his resurrection.” I say, absolutely not. Regardless of which definition you use, including your own, Christianity still maintains the full criteria of a religion, as clearly illustrated in all the definitions above because it’s still belief in the supernatural; it’s still a personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief; it still has a set of beliefs values and practices based on the teachings of a certain leader. So, here’s the punch line: if Christianity DOES NOT qualify for any of those, then Christianity is not a religion. The final result: Christianity is a religion!
So this is why: you cannot negate the application of these other definitions of religion even if Christianity does not require one to regulate ones behavior in the way the old Testament does. These are merely definitions which are subject to the normal variance of society, culture, etc: these are not Federal Regulations where one has to obey one verbatim just as you do when you interpret the scriptures. Even with your definition, Christianity still fulfills all these criteria as given above as well as the hundreds of other definitions on religion which you will find online. Pastor, I implore you, this is not merely my opinion, but simple logical reasoning.
You say you “hate religion” in hopes to make an appeal not only to people of religion but also of the non-religious, but clearly you, an apologist by example, are merely advertising the religion which you believe and chose to view differently when in fact it’s the same two-thousand year old thing that it always has been.
Should you decide to reply, simply remember that I said this is not a theological discussion, this is a logical discussion. NO bible verses at play here in any way, please.
October 11, 2013 at 11:00 am
Eric,
I am not “Pastor Driscoll”. My name is Jake McWhirter. I included a video clip in the blog post above from Driscoll because he did a good job of explaining what I am saying on this page.
I do not intend what I am saying about Christianity not being a religion to be a “selling gimmick”. Far from it! It is something I wholeheartedly believe. I am being very sincere here. There is a VERY profound and significant difference between what Jesus taught and all the world religions. Jesus’ teachings stand alone in a very real way, and are drastically different than any other way to God offered by any religion.
I really don’t care if you want to call Christianity a “religion” or not. This is a pointless debate that I will not enter into again. I have previously listed several sources that list among their definitions ones that agree with my use here (See my response to Amanda above, comment 48). I have even pointed out that the origin of the word “religion” is from the Latin meaning “obligation or bond”. In your response you even made the point that there are many definitions for this word (and even quoted one that agrees with mine). You also overlooked your definition 3 from the freedictionary.com that you quoted which includes “practices”. Elsewhere from your list: “A particular integrated system of this expression”. All of these are getting at the idea and way I am using the word here.
What I take away from this is that the word “religion” is a very loaded word that means a lot of different things to different people. I have no issue if you want to use this word to mean something different than I do. All I ask from you is the same freedom. I think the diversity of definitions for this word provide for that. My use is certainly within the scope of how people use this word. If you want me to illustrate this point consider this usage: a dentist saying to a patient, “I want you to brush your teeth and floss every morning, religiously.” Obviously the dentist doesn’t mean the person is to believe their tooth brush is the creator of the universe, should pray to it, that their floss is holy, or have an emotional attitude about it. He means that he wants the person to be devoted to this practice. He wants the person to see it as an obligation required to achieve his goal of having healthy teeth. He wants them to perform the acts required to gain this goal. This is the same meaning I am using. This is simply “logical reasoning”. No bible verses are needed.
The word you use to describe Christianity isn’t that important. What I am trying to point out is there is something drastically different (at its very fiber) about Christianity from anything else. It is truly alone as the only faith that says that God Himself came down to man instead of telling man what we must do to come to God. It is the only faith where God Himself does all the work required (not us). This is a huge difference! Whether or not you agree it is true or not, you must admit that there is something very unique about what Jesus taught on this. We can argue all day about whether Christianity should be considered a religion or not, but I would much rather talk about this clear difference. You are missing the forest for the trees here. A raft made of logs may have some similarities to an aircraft carrier, but what best characterizes the two is their vast differences, not their few similarities. Give the difference between Christianity and the other religions whatever name you want, let’s talk about the amazing difference!
At the heart of Christianity is the profound idea that it is only God who can fix the problem of sin and restore us to a right relationship with Him. No other faith actually has a solution to the problem of evil. They all teach some form of the idea that man must become better on our own, work harder, make up for evil they we’ve done, and earn good standing before God. But how can a man, who could not keep from doing this evil in the first place, completely stop committing it in the future? And even if he could, not doing evil in the future does not negate or erase evil already done in the past. We all know this is true. I am found guilty of murder by a jury and I stand up to give my last remarks before I am sentenced and I tell the judge, “Yes I did it, but I have been so good since then. I have walked old ladies across the street and worked at the local food bank”, what do you think the judge would say? He would respond, “Yes, but that doesn’t change the fact that you committed this crime. You must pay the penalty for it.”
If God is good and just, He cannot simply overlook evil. If He doesn’t punish Hitler He is an unjust judge. But, if He doesn’t punish my sin of hurting my wife with unkind words He would also be unjust. Yours too. No other faith addresses this problem. They expect a holy and just god to be unholy and unjust and simply tolerate evil or to continue to allow flawed, imperfect, frequently wrong-motivated people to attempt to better themselves. The problem of sin and evil remains. This is a logical problem with these religions.
This is why these religions cannot offer salvation. They do not successfully deal with the problem of our sin. The only way God can remain just and we can go free is for someone to pay our penalty for us. This allows God to remain just by not failing to punish evil, but it also allows Him to let us go free. Other religions have no one who is qualified to pay the debt caused by our sin. It is only Jesus, the God-man, who can step in between you and God and pay this penalty. No other person can do this. They aren’t qualified. They have their own sin. No, the only way would be for God, Himself, to pay it for us. He is the only one who is qualified. He alone is perfect and without His own sin.
The amazing result of this is that it is not our effort and works that earn us salvation in Christianity, it is God’s work substituted in our place. Jesus did all the work for us. He lived the perfect, sinless life. He died the death and took all my sin upon Him. As a result the teaching of Christianity is that anyone who accepts this gift is immediately righteous in God’s eyes! The righteousness of Jesus blankets and covers them. When God looks at them He sees Jesus’ goodness. It has nothing to do with anything they did. They can never do anything to make themselves more or less righteous in God’s eyes. Therefore it has absolutely NOTHING to do with their own effort and work.
This is a gigantic and fundamental difference! It is not semantics. It is not a sales gimmick. The very nature of this faith is grounded in an act of God completely alien to all the others. God dying for human beings? God sacrificing Himself to fix our problem? God becoming a human and experiencing evil and pain like us? God being murdered in our place? What religion is like this?!
God bless,
Jake McWhirter
October 11, 2013 at 11:57 am
Jake McWhirter,
I just wanted to compliment you on your wise words, keep it up. The thing with these blogs is, there will always be someone like “Eric” who wants to destroy the positive thoughts and words that come out of peoples mouths such as your own. I am a faithful Christian, not a religious Christian….and everything you have touched base on makes 100% sense to me.
May God continue blessing you,
Jill
November 12, 2013 at 2:42 pm
Hello Jake,
I must say, this is a wonderful blog you have and am grateful to have found it amidst the garbage I usually find on the internet. I also appreciate your effort to reach out to so many people that seem to have lots of questions. Forgive me, though, because I am one of those people.
I just want to know that, what if I am not aware of Jesus or any god for that matter and I still do good deeds as a person, where would that lead me? Not that I’m saying that I don’t commit sin. I am a sinner – that I can be sure of. But, since I can be empathic with other people, I might usually find myself asking for their forgiveness or making up for the wrong things I’ve done or the hurt I’ve caused others. However, since I am not aware of any personal relationship with Jesus or any other god, I am not doing these deeds to earn my right for salvation. This necessarily follows that I don’t live by rules set by anyone. I only do these things because I am human, capable of reason and empathy.
I’ve read that belief in Jesus is not a rule, only that it is a requirement. It is a state of being. But in my own state of being, in which I don’t possess any belief in Jesus or any god (the only belief I possess is doing good for most of my life), what is it that might happen to me? Will Jesus reveal himself to me? I doubt that. If I am not aware of His and other gods’ existence in the first place, then I won’t even know His/their name/s. I won’t even be aware of any personal relationship I can have with Him/them. But that does not necessarily lead me to a life of sinfulness. I do good because I feel and reason that I should.
I have had this question ever since I was a child. I was brought up in a family that rarely ever spoke of any deity (and I never heard them speak of it until much, much later). They first sent me to a school where it doesn’t preach or talk or share anything about religion or faith. But, being a small child, I frequently got bullied and stuff. That’s when my parents decided to send me to a private school, and coincidentally, it was a Catholic school. I was 8 years old when I first heard of Jesus. I was confused, to say the least. I was thinking to myself, “So all this time, I’ve been doing good to be saved?” Doing good suddenly became a rule.
Thinking about it now, what if no one told me about Jesus? What if I grew up in a remote island filled with people who did not possess belief in Jesus or any other god, but still lived by ethics similar to that of Jesus’ commandments? Would our lack of belief in Him send us somewhere else other than by his side?
Thank you so much for any response to this. It would really be helpful to me.
With Love,
Oran.
November 13, 2013 at 3:27 pm
Oran,
Thanks for commenting. I appreciate the compliment. I, of course, cannot take credit for these ideas. They are not mine. I am just taking the ideas written in the bible and passing them on to others in a way that I hope is easy to understand.
I have already written a great deal that discusses the questions you raise in your comments. So I think I should just link to where you can read what I have already aid on these issues. I would start by reading my page titled “How to Have a Relationship with God”. This addresses most all of the questions you raise in your comment. After you read and contemplate that page, I would suggest reading my response to Jessica above (comment #11).
I’ll try to hit an overview quickly here. The short answer is that there are no “good people”. The bible actually says that, apart from the work of Jesus in your life, “no one does good not even one!” (Romans 3:12) This is because even if we do “good things”, they are done to the glory of ourselves, or at best, for another person. They are never done for the glory of the one and only God. You cannot serve a God you don’t know. So, it’s not just that you have done some bad things (some sin) and mostly good things. It is that you have never done ANYTHING good in God’s eyes!
If this was an old Western movie, we’d all be wearing black hats. There’s only one person in a white hat, and that is Jesus. It doesn’t matter what your faith is, you aren’t good by God’s standard. Everyone falls short. We all have committed treason against our king and we all stand guilty before Him, deserving a death sentence. He doesn’t have to save any of us. In fact, He shouldn’t. If He overlooked our crimes He would be acting unjustly. He cannot remain holy and be unjust. The only way God can remain just and we can go free is for someone to pay our penalty for us. But, this can’t just be another person. They aren’t qualified. They have their own sin. No, the only way would be for God, Himself, to pay it for us. He is the only one who is qualified. He alone is perfect and without His own sin.
The reason why people are unable to understand this truth and can’t see our sinfulness as what it is (repulsive to God) is because we are all blinded by our sin. They are looking through a window that is so dirty they can’t see clearly, but they are unaware to the fact their vision is affected. Sin is the great human problem. Many people think they are wise, that they know how the world works and how to fix it. But since most people have not faced the reality of their own sin problem their “wisdom” is ultimately folly because they can never get to the real source of the trouble with society, and therefore have no real solution. A few people understand that the problem is really our sin, but they lack the power to do anything about it. It is only God who is wise enough to see the problem and strong enough to have the power to fix it. He did this once and for all on the cross through the death and resurrection of Jesus.
This is why other religions cannot offer salvation. They do not successfully deal with the problem of our sin. They have no one who is qualified to pay the debt caused by our sin. The debt we owe because of our sin has left us with a major problem. We are separated from God. We are all doomed to hell because God is just and must hold people accountable for what they have done. Because of our sin problem, we are in desperate need of a mediator, someone who can stand between the holy, perfect, sinless God and mankind. It is only Jesus, the God-man, who can step in between you and God and pay this penalty. No other person can do this. Because of his sinless life on earth, death in our place and His resurrection and victory over sin and death, only Jesus can forgive sin. He is the only one equipped to actually solve the sin problem. So yes, it is only faith in Jesus that can save a person. Without Jesus and His accomplishment of victory over sin, we have no way to be made right with God. You will NEVER get there by trying to be a good person.
Other religions teach you must earn favor and merit from God by the good things you do. However, this does not pay for the bad things you have already done. We instinctively know this is true. If I am found guilty of murder by a jury and I stand up to give my last remarks before I am sentenced and I tell the judge, “Yes I did it, but I have been so good since then. I have walked old ladies across the street and worked at the local food bank”, what do you think the judge would say? He would respond, “Yes, but that doesn’t change the fact that you committed this crime. You must pay the penalty for it.” It is the same with our crimes against God. Being a “good person” doesn’t erase them. T hey must be paid for. Only Jesus can do this.
At some point every one must decide what to do with Jesus Christ. You can’t get away from Him. His existence is historical fact. Some opt for believing He was just a good moral teacher. This position makes the least sense of all, and yet it is the one many people take. The ex-atheist and author C.S. Lewis makes an excellent point about this:
You see, you can’t say a person who claims to be God and the only way to get to heaven is a good moral teacher. He is either a blatant liar, totally crazy, or he is what he claimed. Liar, Lunatic, or Lord. . . those are your options.
His life, His miracles, His death, and His resurrection attest to the validity of His claim. Fulfilled prophecy shouts it. His disciples (those that knew Him best and were eye-witnesses to His life) believed it so strongly they were willing to die for it. The question you must answer is who do YOU say that He is?
When “good people die” they will face judgment. Everyone will. There are only two ways you can respond to God in this judgment. You can claim that you are not guilty. You can rely on your own righteousness. Or, you can admit that you are a sinner and are guilty but that you have placed your faith, trust, and hope in Jesus to be your righteousness. There will be no other person in whom you can trust to be righteousness for you. No leader of any other religion can claim they were without sin.
As for me, I know I am guilty and I cannot stand before a pure and completely holy, sinless, and blameless God and claim to be righteous. I know that Jesus Christ is my only hope on that day. I know that he has already paid my penalty and that because of Him I am forgiven and clean.
I will be praying hard that God will open the eyes of your heart so that you can clearly see His truth. Please let me know if I can be of any more help or if there are any questions I can answer.
Praying for you,
Jake
November 13, 2013 at 4:03 pm
I would ask then what defines your moral code of what is good, what is right & what is wrong? Why is what you do good? Who said and where did this value come from?
For those who have never had the opportunity to hear of Jesus and make a choice for themselves or are incapable of comprehending and making such a choice there is hope in the Bible, God gives His grace to such people. If you can reason this and ask questions such as you did then you have heard of Jesus and you are daily given the choice to follow him or follow your own path.
Our God is a fair and loving Father and I trust him 100% to take care of everyone in this world. I don’t know what happens in that moment of death but I know My God is awesome and loves abundantly and forgives abundantly he who heart is pure. I trust Him to provide every opportunity for salvation to everyone but in the end it will be our choice whether or not we choose salvation.
.
November 13, 2013 at 6:06 pm
I didn’t have time to answer the question, “what about those who don’t know about Jesus?” But, I think David Platt does a pretty good job of summarizing how the Apostle Paul answers that question in the book of Romans. This is an issue that has been thoroughly addressed by scholars for thousands of years. Therefore, I feel no need to add much.
The only point I would add is that often this question is a smokescreen. It takes the focus off the guilt and sin of the person who asks it. This person’s issue is not the “innocent” man in Africa who has never heard the gospel. They are not that man. The person who asks this question HAS heard the gospel. The question is what are THEY going to do with it. The important question for this person to answer is: are the claims of Jesus and the bible true? Regardless of how one answers the question about the person who has never heard the gospel, the question that really matters is: is Christianity true? If it is, the answer to the question about the man in Africa is not all that relevant to them. If God exists and has revealed Himself to us, and if Christ is the only way to God, then the question may puzzle us, but it won’t change the truth of the Christian message.
November 16, 2013 at 11:37 am
man of God your message is so true it has bless and change my life
December 17, 2013 at 9:03 am
This is what I think! 😀 Christianity is NOT a Religion! God & Jesus I LOVE you with all my heart!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
January 17, 2014 at 8:41 am
There was never a man name Jesus first of all his name was Yahasuia he was a man he died never to return .The stupided of most christians is that there were many saviors like Osiris and other solar god with the same mythical saying Star in the east walk on water and death and Resurrection same sun god that other country like India,Greece and Persia.All are Sun gods not real wake up..your religion is baed on Astrology.12 Constellations 12 tribes of Israel all the same thing
January 17, 2014 at 12:13 pm
why did you lying cheating christians take my respones off because you no its true keep on believing in your pagan sun god Jesus. most of your paster are nothing but money grabing Pimps
January 17, 2014 at 2:50 pm
Jay,
Thanks for taking the time to comment. However, your remarks seem knee-jerk and poorly researched. You bring up several objections you have obviously heard from others and it would seem not fully thought through by you.
First you claim there was no person named Jesus because his name was Yahasuia. This is somewhat true. His Greek name was actually Yeshua. The name “Jesus” is simply Yeshua translated into English. This is no different than the fact that my name is Jacob in English but a person living in Spain would use Jacobo, Italian is Giacobbe, Russian is Yakov, etc. This is the same with every name. In fact, Jesus is Isa in Turkish and Arabic, Jezus in Dutch and Isus in Romanian. Each language has a different way to spell and pronounce each name but they still mean the same thing and they still refer to the same person. If it makes you feel better to call him Yeshua, go for it. Your point here is not clear and ultimately what you call a person doesn’t really matter.
You then said that Jesus died and never returned. You call Christians stupid for believing he did. However, you offer absolutely NO evidence to refute the hundreds of eyewitness accounts which state that this event did occur. The death, burial and resurrection of Jesus is one of the best attested to and documented events in all of ancient history. It is recorded, not only by followers of Jesus, but by Jewish and Roman historians who were hostile to Christianity. The evidence here is overwhelming if you actually took the time to investigate it. I have written about some of this evidence in this blog post. You can choose not to believe the monumental evidence, but what evidence can you offer that it didn’t happen? If you don’t have anything to refute the evidence, it doesn’t seem like a very fair accusation to call people “stupid” for siding with the available historical evidence. Rather, stupidity is simply refusing to acknowledge the possibility that this event actually did occur no matter how much evidence there is for it. You believe in the reality of other ancient events that have FAR LESS evidence that they occurred than Jesus’ resurrection. Your historical objectivity here is simply skewed.
You then start to claim that Jesus is just a reinvention of other pagan myths. I have already talked much about this here in these comments so I don’t feel inclined to repeat it here. Please read my response to DS in comment 76 above. I conclusively rebutted this claim there. It remains refuted. In fact, the vast majority of ancient scholars do not believe that these pagan myths had influence on the bible or Jesus Christ. This is even true for scholars who do not believe in the bible and are not Christians. This is an old, outdated argument that has been resoundingly defeated by scholars. Don’t commit the False Cause Fallacy. Just because there are similarities between two things doesn’t mean one caused the other. It’s similar to saying “I knew it would rain, I just washed my car”. Washing the car may have come first, but it doesn’t necessitate the washing was a causal factor in the rain coming. The fact that a previous religion has similarities to the bible does NOT imply that they are the cause of bible. You must argue for a causal relation. You can’t just assert parallels and think that implies a causal relation. It does not.
You say that there are 12 constellations and this is why there are 12 tribes of Israel. Even if that were true (which it isn’t) just because both have the number 12 in no way implies one is the reason for the other. That idea is just silly. There are 12 months in a year. Is that because of the number of constellations? No. It is all about the number of lunar cycles in a complete revolution of the sun by the earth. There are 12 eggs in a carton. Is that because of the tribes of Israel or the constellations. Of course not. You must establish the link and show how one was based on the other. This is a hard case to make here, since Judaism is emphatically ANTI-astrology. Besides, this whole argument is absurd since there are actually 88 recognized constellations, not 12.
You are free to dialog on this page. However, if you are going to make claims like this, you are going to have to present evidence to back them up. I encourage you to really look into the historical evidence about resurrection of Christ. You may be surprised by what you learn. Many skeptics have been persuaded by this evidence.
God bless,
Jake
January 17, 2014 at 3:25 pm
Jay (James),
Oh, the lost art of civil discussion. It is so unfortunate that so many people today do not know how to disagree and argue their points in a legitimate way. We have regressed to the point of ad hominems and name calling instead of intellectual dialog and the exchange of ideas founded on evidence. Calling a person a name does nothing to refute their argument. It actually just undermines yours. It is simply conceding your position is too weak to argue fairly . . . and it is poor form (very rude). Regardless of what you say about me, I will never do that to you.
Your accusations about me and “most pastors” are completely baseless. I had already posted your comment in full. I have never received one cent from anything I have written on this web page or any other. I have never made any money off of sharing the gospel. I work as an engineer at Boeing. I fully fund all the ministry work I do and give of my time, resources and finances to do it. I do this because I care about people. I care about you. I do everything I do for the glory of Jesus Christ and so that I might help as many people as possible come to know Him and His amazing love for them, as I have. It is clear you don’t know many pastors. You certainly don’t know me.
I sincerely wish you the best. I would be happy to continue discussions with you, but only if you can cease the personal attacks, stop arguing ad hominem, and engage in civil dialog.
God bless,
Jake
February 19, 2014 at 12:03 pm
Hate to tell you all this…..but the only “Legitimate” religion out there is the Jewish faith & perhaps Islam & if you really want to push it, then pagans would be on that list. All of the rest of you. The Anglican, protestants, Catholics, Baptists, Mormons, Jehovah & on & on & on & on…..the rest of “religions” have merely sprung off what was once simply termed a Christian. And even the Christians themselves are in mere infancy in the history of men. Sprung off you may ask…..what is she talking about? When a man (at least we woman can’t get blamed for this one) didn’t like what a man with more power had decided, then poof, a new religion was born. “Not true!” you say horrified. We then what about Martin Luther, John Calvin, Joseph Smith, Jan Hus, John Knox, Menno Simons, James Springer White, Henry VIII and yes, even Jesus goes on this list just to name a few.
I have been a student of history since I was old enough to read. When you begin to examine the histories of our world things take a different perspective.
Firstly, to all those who don’t believe that Jesus existed, go read a book! He know beyond a doubt that was a real man that walked this earth just like the rest of us. He saw corruption, greed & false men of god & felt the need to rebel against the injustice he saw every day. Well so did Martin Luther King Jr, Liu Xiaobo, Olympe de Gouges & Joan of Arc (and believe me the list goes on & on). Standing up for what you believe to be right does not make one divine…..divinely inspired maybe, but that’s not necessarily the same.
When will people realize that all of this is just arguing semantic? All of the major religions all preach to us the very same lessons. Love, compassion, charity, brotherhood, integrity, understanding, faith in a greater power than ourselves & to help those less fortunate. They are not as far apart as one may think they are. As far as I’m concerned, you can call that power whatever you want…it’s the same thing in different clothing.
I have not referred to myself or my own beliefs in here anywhere because my experiences have unequivocally changed my beliefs since childhood. More people have died & been murdered in God’s name than the total of every disease & natural disaster in all our history. Don’t know about any of you but this is not something my god asks of me. It is my sincere hope that I have not offended anyone with this post. That being said, I have always love a good theological debate.
We are all brothers & sisters of humanity, no less than the trees or the stars. We are all party of the universe as it is a part of us.
Blessed Be,
Deb
February 19, 2014 at 3:01 pm
Deb,
Thanks for commenting. I also enjoy a good-hearted discussion on the issues you raise. I hope you will allow me to respond to some of the claims you have made. You said . . .
I must be honest and say that this is one of the worst arguments against religious belief that I have ever personally heard. It is really just sloppy logic and poor critical thinking. In fact, it is a logically fallacy called “argumentum ad hominem”. Even if this comment were true, it does absolutely nothing to argue against the validity of religious belief. Just because people who believe something act poorly, it does not follow that the reason for their poor actions was that particular belief. I am sure Adolf Hitler believed the world was round. In fact, I am sure Stalin, Mussolini, Osama Bin Laden, and Mao Zedong did as well. I am sure most everyone who committed mass murders in the past 2000 years believed the earth was spherical. I suppose, then, using your logical methodology that it is obvious that those who believe in a round earth are clearly disposed towards violence and murder? This is obviously silly, since nearly everyone believes the earth is round. Similarly, we should hardly be surprised by the fact that many people who commit atrocities and wars do so while believing in God. It is simply a fact that 97% of people in the world believe in a god of some kind. 84% of the world’s population identify themselves as being religious. If you go back in history, this number is only higher. So, there is no surprise that most wars and murders were done by religious people, since most all people are religious.
What actually is interesting, though, is if you look at the deaths caused by secular regimes and by those who claim to be atheists. As a student of history I am sure you are well aware that the 20th century was the bloodiest century in the history of the world. We killed more people in the 20th century than the previous 19 put together! It is not coincidence that this aligns with the rise of secularism and the decline of religious belief. This can be clearly seen from the fact that the greatest atrocities are tied to movements with their basis in secular thought. The secular regimes of China and Russia have killed 60 million people each! Let that number sink in for a moment. It is staggering. It makes the holocaust seem tame in comparison. You should read about the atrocities committed during the Red Guard Rebellion and the Boxer Rebellion in China.
Your objection is a popular sentiment. Someone once said, “Religious wars are basically people killing each other over who has the better imaginary friend”. Ironically, that person was Napoleon Bonaparte, an atheist who was responsible for over 2.5 million deaths. If modern history has taught us anything, it is that secular and non-religious people are just a capable of atrocity as religious people. In fact, when you remove the restraint of the objective moral standard that religions teach (which you describe in your comment) you far increase the likelihood of vast evil occurring. After all, who is to say it is evil if there is no objective standard from which to define it as such?
Additionally, your glib dismissal of religions (because of atrocities committed by people who claimed to be religious) ignores the amazing amount of good done in particular by Christianity. As a student of history should also be aware that the Christian church is the largest single provider of healthcare and education in the world, working especially in some of the poorest countries where there is no other care available. There is no close second. The Christian church pioneered modern Social Work. The church is responsible for instituting the first laws to protect children from abuse and neglect. The church founded the American Red Cross and Salvation Army. The Christian church was the first to established homes to care for orphans and currently operates the world’s largest orphanage system. Christians birthed Almshouse institutions to care for the elderly in society. Christianity’s impact on freedom and government is everywhere, including the authoring of the Magna Carta (written by the Archbishop of Canterbury) which is considered the founding document establishing of the freedoms and rights of individuals. It was Christians who founded the first universities and who advocated for teaching everyone regardless of sex. All the way up through 1932, out of 182 colleges in the US, 168 of them were founded by Christian denominations. It was Christians who first urged for public schooling. It was Christians who led the civil rights movements around the world (eg. Wilberforce, MLK, and Mandela).
I could go on and on here. This list is extensive and remarkable. My point here is not that religious people are better people than non-religious. No. My point is that, despite what you claim, there is something special and unique about Christianity from all the rest. No other religious (or non-religious) group can claim these things. The results simply speak something that cannot be denied.
You also said. . .
Again, this is a popular notion, but it doesn’t hold up under closer examination. This view assumes that all religions are basically the same on the important things and only different on the small things. The reverse is actually true. They are in contradiction on the major points and only agree on minor details. All religions are basically the same . . . except for the issue of: life after death, the nature of God, the means of salvation, the problem of man and those things. Virtually all religions disagree on these things. What you find is that the only things they agree on at all are some basic morality ideas (and even these can be very different). These minor points of agreement are not even exclusive to religion. Most non-religious people hold them as well. Therefore there is virtually NOTHING that religions teach that is universal in the specific teachings of the world’s major religions. They disagree on the most all essential issues.
You can’t dodge the fact that all religions make conflicting truth claims. They claim real things that are either right or wrong. Thus, according to the “Law of Non-Contradiction”, they cannot be all true. Modern day Jews say Jesus was not the Messiah, Christianity says he was. Either he is or he isn’t. He categorically cannot be both. Either these Jews are right and Christians are wrong or Christians are right and the Jews are wrong. Under no circumstance can they both be right. When you die you either go to heaven or hell, or you get reincarnated, or you astro-worlds or you lie in a grave, but you can’t do them all, at the same time. Either all of the religions have it wrong or one of them is right. There is no third option of them being in agreement about anything that matters. They simply aren’t.
You then make an argument that Jesus was just a man who did great things (but wasn’t divine).
You are correct; the fact that he was a moral man who stood up for what he believed was right alone doesn’t make him divine. However this is not the claim of Christianity. It’s a really poor straw-man argument. Christians don’t believe Jesus was God because he was a good man and stood up for what he thought was right. Christianity is founded on the claim that Jesus was God because he taught with the authority, wisdom, and character of God, because he lived a sinless life, because he forgave sins with the authority of God, because he was able to heal the sick by the power of God, because he could drive out demons by the power of his name, because he fulfilled over 300 specific prophecies given by God, because he could perform miracles in the sight of all by God’s power, and because he rose from the dead conquering even the power of death. Most importantly, because he claimed to be God! The claim alone is nothing. But, the claim in combination with his life demonstrating the truthfulness and reality of the claim is powerful evidence. The other men you mention in your quote did not claim this. Even if they had, they did not perform the actions to demonstrate the truthfulness of the claim. Jesus stands alone in this regard. Of the men you mention in your quote, it is Jesus alone who isn’t in a grave (or who will never have a grave).
Of course, you could say that these claims are just stories invented by his followers. However, there is simply no legitimate reason to conclude that. In fact, the massive weight of historical evidence is on the other side; that the fantastic and supernatural claims about Jesus’ life actually occurred. It is simply not enough to disregard the eye-witness accounts in the bible without some competing source from with to refute them. The bible has more textual sources than any ancient document (over 24,000 for the New Testament alone). The accounts were written within a shorter period of time from when they occurred than any other ancient document (15-150 years). It is the compiled written testimony of 40 eye-witnesses. The New Testament accounts of Jesus are also attested to by 20 additional writers outside of the bible. There are as many non-Christian writers that talk about Jesus existence and what he did than there are the Roman Emperor at the time (Tiberius Caesar)!
We can even verify the events recorded in the bible concerning Jesus’ existence, his miracles, his claim to be God, his death by crucifixion, even his resurrection from the dead, his empty tomb, the testimony of his disciples, and their willingness to be martyred for it . . . all from writings external to the bible! We can even do this from the writings of non-Christians at the time. That’s how well documented a historical reality it is. Even the enemies of Christianity at the time write that these miraculous events occurred. It is unfair and disingenuous to dismiss the clear weight of historical evidence here without requiring any evidence to refute it. If we do, why should we believe that Alexander the Great really existed and did the things claimed about him? You can read more on the amazing amount of textual support for the New Testament in this blog I wrote: http://missionarybrewer.wordpress.com/2013/01/31/why-believe-in-christianity-over-other-religions/
You are correct that Christianity is more modern than Judaism. You are wrong about Islam, though. That is newer than Christianity (founded by Mohammad in the 7th century, 700 years after Jesus and Christianity). Of Course Christianity is split off Judaism. No one denies that. It’s a historical fact. This alone, does not imply Christianity is wrong, though. In fact, Christianity claims the truthfulness of every part of Judaism up until the coming of Jesus Christ. All of the Jewish scriptures are included in the Christian bible. Christianity claims to be the correct and legitimate extension of true Judaism. One might say that modern Judaism is a split off of true Judaism (which is called Christianity). The founders of the Christian faith were all devout Jews (including Jesus, all his disciples, and Paul). They remained devout Jews. They often referred to Christianity as the true sect of Judaism.
Your whole argument essentially comes down to what to do with Jesus Christ. He was either is who he claimed to be (the Son of God), an imposter (a liar) or he was completely crazy. If he was truly the Son of God then all this about Judaism coming before Christianity is irrelevant. This is because Jesus claimed that he came to help us understand the Jewish scriptures and that the Jewish scriptures were actually all about Him. If this is true, then the fact that Christianity came after Judaism is obvious and expected. However, if he is a liar or crazy then there is no reason to hold him in any positive light. In that event, he misled thousands of people and caused the death of most of his followers for no reason other than to elevate his ego. What you can’t do is hold his as a good man (like you did in your comment along with other moral men). He should not make your list of good men who stood up for what they believed.
Fortunately, we aren’t just left without clues as to which option to pick with it comes to Jesus (liar, lunatic, or Lord). Unlike the other religions, Christianity rises and falls with a truth claim. Christianity lives or dies on the claim that Jesus literally, historically and actually rose from the dead. If this didn’t actually happen as a real historical event, then the whole thing is bogus. But if it did happen, then it elevates Jesus to a level far above any other founder of any other religion (or any great man). If this event is true, then we must look at what Jesus claimed and take him seriously. This is because he claimed to be the only way to God. No other religion gives such a truth test. Christianity is unique in this way. So, it is very important to determine what the historical evidence has to say on this question. I encourage you to read this blog article I wrote on answering this question: http://missionarybrewer.wordpress.com/2013/01/31/why-believe-in-christianity-over-other-religions/ I also challenge you to listen to this short video that presents a quick overview of the substantial historical evidence for the claims of Jesus. http://youtu.be/9sKGsk7M2u8?t=15m44s
February 22, 2014 at 9:49 am
Christianity as to do having faith in GOD why religion as to do sacrificing a goat in other to be Clean form our sin. we must understand that Christianity is hundred percent far different than religion. on the cross of calaver Jesus destroy the power of relegion. according to Matthew 27 vs 52 and religion demand that people will be outside why the priest will be inside of the holy of holes to sacrifice for the sins of the people but when Jesus die Christianity now demand by faith not by religion. because religion demand good deed why Christianity demand your faith according to Hebrew 11 vs 6-7 and john 1 vs 12
February 23, 2014 at 1:19 am
Nice info n God bless u
March 18, 2014 at 3:21 pm
Hey, I liked a lot of what you said. Besides it seems like you deny the sacraments, i.e. baptism and the Lord’s Supper. I believe everything in the bible. And you say you do to, which is why I hope you believe that the Jesus, when talking to Nicodemus about being born again, clearly refers to baptism (John 3). And he also tells us this IS my body and this IS my blood for the forgiveness of sins referring to the bread and wine in His holy supper. God works through means, and still so when he forgives our sins through the word and sacraments. The word and sacraments are the means He uses. Now, if you were baptized as a child and then never took it seriously until later in life, that doesn’t mean your baptism didn’t make you a child of God, but your “awakening moment” or spiritual baptism, or whatever Pentecostal types call it, did. You remember your baptism and remember that by it you out were burring in Christ’s death and just as he rose from the dead, so also shall you walk in newness of life. I think you’re annoyed at some things that are pretty annoying, but please don’t deny the sacraments. They aren’t works, they are services from God.
http://bookofconcord.org/smallcatechism.php#baptism
[audio src="http://christforus.org/Sermons/Content/2010/Christ%20for%20Us%207-14-13.mp3" /]
March 18, 2014 at 3:51 pm
Herman,
I certainly do believe in the sacraments, however I don’t agree with you about their purpose. I wholeheartedly agree with you when you say “they aren’t works they are services of God”. I agree with that statement. Baptism is given to us as a reminder of what God has done in our hearts. The Lord’s Supper is a means by which God gives grace to us. But neither of these are necessary for salvation. This is where it would seem we sharply disagree. If these actions on our end were the means by which salvation comes to us (means our sins are forgiven, as you said) then salvation would most certainly require our works. They are works we do. In Romans 10, when Paul describes what must happen for a person to be saved, there is no mention of Baptism or the Lord’s Supper. He simply says believing and confessing Jesus as Lord and risen from the dead. Paul was pretty clear.
Baptism is a symbol of your faith in Jesus Christ. It is a public witness and testimony of what has already occurred in your life. It is a word picture of the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. It is an outward picture of something inward that has happened to the believer in the Lord Jesus. It is your public statement, to all, that you believe in Jesus, that he died for your sins on the cross, and that He has cleansed you from your sin. You are raised with Him to walk in your new life, a life fully devoted to His service. Baptism does not save you. It does not mark the day you became a Christian. You do not have to be baptized to go to heaven. We have a biblical example of this in the thief on the cross (Luk 23:39-43). He was never baptized, yet was with Christ in Paradise. There is a clear biblical pattern that first you believe and are saved, then you get baptized to tell everyone (eg. Acts 10:44-48). Baptism is not the “means by which God forgives our sins”. The means was Jesus’ death on the cross. That is all that was needed.
Baptism does NOT make you a “child of God”, as you claimed. Only faith in Jesus Christ can do this. John is clear on this in John 1:12. . . ” But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God.” Notice there is no mention of baptism. Baptism is great. All believers should do it. It does NOT save you though. If it did it would be a work and you would be earning it.
I do not “deny the sacraments”. I do, however, deny that they are human works required for a person to be saved. So did the apostles. This is religion.
March 28, 2014 at 7:02 am
This is what have been looking for. Its a true message
April 3, 2014 at 6:50 am
In my opinion religion is when you place your faith on something materialistic. Christians place there faith in God and God only,for it is written:
John 4:24. “God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth..God Bless you all
April 18, 2014 at 12:37 pm
Mr. McWhirter,
To begin with, I’m atheist and I thank you for your patience with all the less than civil comments, as well as not censoring dissenting opinions.
I don’t agree with the premise that Christianity is not a religion, but I don’t care that you do, and I’m sure that feeling is mutual. I’d imagine Yahweh wouldn’t be terribly concerned with the semantics of the word ‘religion’ as it applies to Christianity.
The reason I’m writing is that I just heard about this idea the other day from a coworker and I was surprised and interested, so I did a quick search for the reasoning behind it, but I also searched the new testament for the word ‘religion.’ There are a couple of verses that come up that seem to explicitly refer to Christianity as a religion.
James 1:26-1:27
26 Those who consider themselves religious and yet do not keep a tight rein on their tongues deceive themselves, and their religion is worthless. 27 Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.
There are a couple others, but they follow along these lines. I’m really just curious how you interpret these passages within the framework of your premise. Do you disagree with my interpretation, the translation, or with the author of the passage, etc.? I apologize if this was brought up previously. I looked through the article and comments thoroughly, but didn’t see it mentioned. Regards,
April 21, 2014 at 10:36 am
Jay,
Thanks so much for writing and for asking honesty questions. It is very refreshing to find people who know how to disagree amiably and carry on discussions and even arguments based on ideas and not attacking people. Your comments and thoughts are welcome here.
I think your question about James’ use of “religion” is a very astute one. I have actually been waiting for someone to ask this question for quite a while now. I think it is amazing that it was raised by an atheist. I think that does you a lot of credit for looking into the subject and not making a rash conclusion without considering what the bible actually says (and for being willing to ask a question). I wish more Christians would do this.
You are very correct that James (the half brother of Jesus) does, in fact, commend pure and faultless religion. To be clear, I do not at all mean to imply all in my blog that good works are bad and we should not do them. Of course that idea runs counter to much of what the bible has to say. Jesus called people to “love others as you love yourself” (Mk 12:31) and to “do unto others as you would have them do unto you” (Luk 6:31). Paul says that love for others fulfills the law (Rom 13:8-10). I don’t even mean to be saying that people shouldn’t be “religious” about doing good deeds. By “religious” here I simply mean dedicated to the action, consistent, planned, and methodical. Being regimented and disciplined in doing good works can be very helpful and positive.
The difference here with Christianity and other world religions is why these actions are done. Christianity, at its core, is not religious. It is not based on what you do or don’t do. It is true that Christianity teaches many things about what we should do and how we should behave. But, it is not performance based. All other religions teach that their god(s) can be made propitious (favorably disposed) towards man by good actions, sacrifices, rituals, offerings, etc. I was in an Asian restaurant the other day and at the counter there was a small idol. In front of the idol there were offering left by the restaurant owner to the god in an effort to make this god propitious towards their business. It is this idea that is foreign to Christianity. The bible teaches that there is NOTHING man can do to make God propitious towards us. It teaches that even our best actions are tainted and spoiled by pride and selfishness and are like filthy rags to God (Isaiah 64:6, Rom 3:9-20). We can never earn our way to God or pay for our debt to Him by any action we do (See Hebrews 10:5-10). It is only the sacrifice of Jesus Christ (the sinless and faultless sacrifice) that God’s wrath is appeased and he is made propitious towards us.
Christianity claims the bizarre and audacious claim that God did everything required for us to be right in His eyes Himself. When a sinful person places their faith and trust in Jesus to be their righteousness, God looks upon them, not as sinful any longer, but as completely holy and perfect. He sees the one who follows Jesus in the same way he sees Jesus.
This is why a dying, murderous criminal on the cross, who has did nothing good to earn God’s favor and who brought no righteousness to God, was considered pure, faultless and righteous by God. Jesus told the man, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise” (Luk 23:43). This man had no opportunity for good actions to balance out the bad he had done. Jesus didn’t grant salvation to the man because he promised to turn over a new leaf. He was dying. This was it. If it depended on the man to earn it or to perform any good actions to make God propitious towards him, he was doomed. But fortunately, all that Christianity requires is faith in Jesus. The criminal had faith in Jesus, so The Father looked down upon His Son’s sacrifice in place of the criminal. The Father saw the perfect life lived by Jesus in place of the wicked life lived by the criminal and pronounced the verdict for the man “paid in full”. As a result, the Father sees the man, not as a criminal, but as completely righteous and faultless in His eyes.
Yes, the bible tells believers to live our lives in a certain way and to do behave in a specific manor. But our standing before God is never dependent on this. Regardless of how we perform at it, we are still viewed as completely righteous and faultless in the eyes of God. As a Christian I can never make God love me any more or any less by some action I perform. God calls believers to serve Him, not out of obligation or to make Him propitious, but out of love. We serve God because we love God. We love God because He first loved us. Consider the whole passage that I quoted a piece of earlier. . .
Any good works done by a Christian should be motivated by love and appreciation for God and what He has done for us. They are done voluntarily, not compulsory. This difference between the relationship and motivation for works between Christianity and other religions might be illustrated by contrasting the relationship between a loving parent and a child and a master and a slave. The slave serves the master because he must do so. If he does not comply with the masters demands the master will punish him. If the slave is bad enough, the master may sell him (or in extreme cases kill him). If the slave does a good job at his work, the master may become favorably disposed (propitious) towards him and reward him in some way (or at least be kind to him). If you look at all the world religions, you will see a striking similarity here to this system.
However, Christianity is drastically different. It is much more like the relationship between the loving parent and child. The child’s relationship with a loving parent is not dependent on his behavior. No matter what he does, he will always be the parent’s son. Some actions the child does may not be what the parent desires, but the parent still loves the child. He still desires the best for the child. The good parent will discipline the child in an effort to help him, not to punish him. The child learns to obey the parent because he loves him. The good child takes joy in making the parent smile.
All analogies fail at some point. In the one above, the problem is that we are all sinful, and frequently children don’t obey parents out of love and trust. Frequently parents don’t earn that trust because they are not as loving, trustworthy or as gracious as they should be. The analogy does work if you consider how the relationship should be. In the same way, sometimes Christians don’t do good works and love each other for the correct motives. This happens all too frequently. Sometimes we forget our standing with God isn’t dependent on our behavior and we slip back into trying to earn it by what we do. What is needed in this case is a reminder to rest in God’s love and to reflect on all that He has done for us. Meditating on God’s love for us stirs up love within us and motivates us to express it by serving and loving others.
So, yes, by all means, a Christian should care for widows and orphans. It is good, even, to be religious about doing so. But it is super-important for us to remember what the proper motivation should be for doing this. Notice what James doesn’t say. He doesn’t say that by helping widows and orphans we can earn anything from God. He is simply exhorting us not to be lax in our caring for those who need it most (and who cannot repay us at all). James is assuming the motivation for these actions is love (See James 2:8). While both Christianity and Islam (for example) will call for widows to be treated well the difference between the two is what motivation the followers of that religion are given for doing so.
Religion may or may not be helpful to the individual. Some people may have such a burden for helping orphans (for example) that they constantly think about it and are prompted to act on it. They may be continually be burdened by a desire to help them. Such a person would have little use for religion to prompt them to action on the behalf of orphans. Others, however, might not think about it so much. They might be prone to go about life not contemplating the fate of those children. To this person it can be very helpful to be a little religious about taking some action to help. One way I do this in my own life is by sponsoring a child monthly through Compassion International. It is an intentional, planned, deliberate (religious, if you will) expression of my love for orphans. I do not feel compelled to do this. I don’t do it to earn favor from God. I do it because I love God, I know He loves orphans; this causes me to also love orphans and want to help them. I get busy and sometimes forget this. So therefore, a little religion helps me be consistent in remembering to express this love regularly. I believe this is one example of what James means by pure and faultless religion. Christianity certainly allows for it and even encourages it. However, it does NOT require it. Remember the criminal on the cross.
At the heart of Christianity is Jesus. It is all about Jesus. All the moral teachings can be stripped away and Christianity remains as long as Jesus remains. Ultimately, the core of Christianity is faith in the person of Jesus Christ and acceptance of His righteousness in place of ours. This faith and the relationship that comes with it will inevitably change you. It will grow love within you…for God and also for others. Out of this new found, deeper love will naturally flow good deeds and actions. They are not the focus or the cause of the relationship. They are the byproduct. Pure and faultless religion is the byproduct of Christianity, but it is NOT Christianity. The ripples in a smooth lake that occur when a stone is tossed in are the byproduct of stone entering the water; they are not the cause of the stone entering the water. However, you cannot toss the stone into the water without it causing the ripples.
I hope that helps explain what I mean a little better. I am encouraged by your thoughtful inquiry into this issue. I encourage you to continue to look deeper into Christianity. It truly is vastly different than any religion. It is also supported by true events and much evidence. It is easily the most falsifiable of all belief systems but has never been falsified. Check out this article: http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2013/07/christianity-the-worlds-most-falsifiable-religion/
You can also read some I have written on this here:
http://missionarybrewer.wordpress.com/2013/01/31/why-believe-in-christianity-over-other-religions/
I would also be happy to try to answer any other questions you have.
God bless,
Jake
April 27, 2014 at 6:19 am
I am so happy i can across this blog, there is so much to learn and read here. I do believe that it is guided by the holy spirit. I myself use to beat myself up about not being good enough for God. I winded up leaving the walks for a year because it became to much for me to handle, like you said in one of your response this picture of God was painted of God always being upset and angry about things, although i did read the bible but i also had other telling me it should be this way and not that way. It drove me crazy and i stopped attending church and building my relationship with God. With in that year i realized how much i really need God in my life and i was not happy with not having him with me but this time around I’m trying to learn more on my own rather then getting confused by what others think it should be like (Religion). Jesus says the religious do not enter heaven, i believe that. I do not want to follow religion i want to follow Jesus!
This article is so helpful and enlightening. There is so much to read, i will book mark and continue reading. I can also relate to Marion, because i felt like that as well, everything just gets worst in my life instead of getting better and i also felt like “God where are you” but i also know that a lot of things that was being told to me was painting a different picture of God and was hindering me from really getting on the level and understanding i need to be on. With that said i can not rebel against God, I need God no matter the storm or how long it is i have to keep holding on to him because he is the only one who speaks to the storm and even the waters obey him. If he did that on the boat then i have to believe he can do that in my life as well!
I love Jesus!!
April 30, 2014 at 1:58 am
I am chick Cynthia Kandi from Cameroon
I love Jesus and like reading about him.This article has inspired me and really cleared many doubts i have.i will like to always receive inspiring messages and teachings from a man of God like you.
will be pleased to receive more inspiring messages on Gods word.
May 9, 2014 at 3:23 am
I do thank for paying the price for the evil i have done.l hate religion and i don,t belong to any religion.
l am a chrsitian saved by FAITH in Christ Jesus.
THE LAW CAN NOT SAVE ME
May 9, 2014 at 11:07 pm
Our son is a “saved” Christian. The last 6 years he has preached the bible to us to the point the rest of the family wont hardly talk to him. We have been to his church, been there for his two beautiful children. Our oldest son and his wife are adopting a beautiful baby girl. His wife’s sister is gay. Our Christian son cannot congratulate them because the child will be raised in such an environment. And because he is Christian, and we decide not to follow his belief, he is no longer going to have contact with any of us. We are all angry and heartbroken. Explain to me that this is what being a ‘Christian” is all about. We think it is a cult? But when I have been around his Church friends, its not like that. I have read some of your blog, I believe in God, but I cannot believe he works in this way, please help me find some Way of understanding this.
May 10, 2014 at 11:46 pm
I sent a personal email to this person.
May 12, 2014 at 12:32 am
I was born and raised in a “Christian cult” for 15 years where parents were enforced to physically beat their children for the minor/major sins they had committed. I’m terrified of Christ, all I’ve been taught is that he seeks out sinful people and destroys them. I find it hard to pray to him because I don’t think I personally am worthy to speak to him. How to I fully love my spiritual father, my creator when I’m so afraid of him and the power he has in his hands?? Please anyone guide me to him.
May 15, 2014 at 3:05 am
This isn’t referring to Christianity?
James 1:27 ESV
Religion that is pure and undefiled before God, the Father, is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world.
May 15, 2014 at 10:21 am
Cody,
Please see my response to Jay above (comment #99) where I address this question.
May 15, 2014 at 11:24 am
Alex,
I am so sorry to hear of your experience. It certainly makes sense that you would be naturally terrified of Jesus, given your experience. The only thing I can say is to try to understand that the Jesus you are afraid of is not the true Jesus. He is some other imposter. The Jesus you describe and the one you were taught of is a completely different Jesus from the Jesus described in the bible. Jesus does not “seek out sinful people and destroy them”. The reality is that even though we ALL deserve that, Jesus came displaying grace, mercy, and love. Consider the following words about this man whom you fear . . .
This is just a taste. I urge you to open up the gospels and read about the true Jesus who loves you and cares enough for you that he would sacrifice His own life to save you. Don’t let what other people tell you about Him form your whole concept of who Jesus is. Find out for yourself. You will be amazed by the love, patience, generosity, mercy and compassion you see in this man.
This is especially heightened when you come to the understanding that you don’t deserve this. You really do deserve death and punishment. We all do. To be sure, you SHOULD be afraid of God and the power He has in His hands. God does have the power of life and death and the power to through us in hell (Matt 10:28). In your comment you said that you have trouble praying to God because you don’t feel “worthy to speak to him”. But this isn’t just how you feel, it is the reality. In this case, your feelings are telling you the truth. You are NOT worthy to speak to Him. You are a sinner and your sin separates you from God. You are indeed at risk of hell. All of us are in this situation. No one can approach God by their own worth or by their own merit. It is actually a good thing that you feel this lack of worth because it means you are close to understanding your need for a savior.
This is why Jesus came. He didn’t come to punish the world. He came to offer freedom to the world. He came to offer you and me salvation from ourselves and from our rightful judgment. He came so that you can approach God, not on the basis of your worth, but on Jesus’ worth. The believer in Jesus can pray and approach God because in God’s eyes Jesus’ extreme worth is substituted in place of their lack of worth. When God looks upon the Christian he sees only Jesus’ worth. This is why Jesus reconciles us (brings us back) to God. He is the bridge, the mediator, between us and God.
You must come to the place where you realize your own sinfulness and guilt before God. You need to repent of this sin and turn to God. Place your complete faith, trust and hope in Jesus Christ as your only hope of being saved. If you do this, you can approach God with no fear. God has no wrath against his children (those who have trusted in Jesus). All of God’s wrath was placed on Jesus Christ when He was on the cross. He drank the whole cup of God’s wrath towards those of us who believe in Him. There is not one drop left. This is why Jesus said, “It is finished!” (John 19:30). The child of God gets to run to their Daddy, Father and jump right into His lap (just like the little children did with Jesus in the verses above).
I understand that it will take time for you to heal and repair your concept of who Jesus is. I believe the best way for you to do this is to keep reading about Him in the bible. Read the book of John. Then read Mark, Matthew and Luke. Keep reading them until you can see Jesus for who He really is. Allow the Word to replace your view of who Jesus is. Allow it to rewrite how you think. Pray that God will open your eyes to see His love and compassion for you. I will pray for you as well. He will do it.
I also encourage you to read the letter that I wrote to Marion at the beginning of these comments (comment #2). She was struggling with some of the same things you are.
God bless,
Jake
May 16, 2014 at 1:23 am
Jake your words have truly touched me. I honestly didn’t believe anyone could help or provide advice but that was an incredibly negative and realised that’s how I view Jesus Christ. I will read them over and over until those negative thoughts are out of my life for good. Thank you again my brother!
I do have one more question. When you ask god for help, why doesn’t he help you especially when your desperate and understand he is the only one who could help? Why doesn’t he help us but other times he does? Why does he pick and choose?
June 5, 2014 at 7:30 am
its so powerful,Religion versus Christianity!
June 16, 2014 at 6:20 am
Thank you so much for writing this. I try to explain this to people and it’s like if they can’t have Religion they are not satisfied because they feel the need to feel like they are producing works to lead what they think is the definition of a successful Christian life, meanwhile their life produces nothing for non believers to want to be apart of. I know the Pharisees were religious, So much so that they wanted to Kill Christ because he healed someone on the Sabath day. Religion is horrible and it causes so many problems for people. His word says He is the word, the word became Flesh. To get to know Christ is to be in his word it produces an effortless change. The bible has to be read in it’s context. Each book of the bible was a letter or book. Chapter numbers and verse numbers were added a couple of hundred years ago. I have seen people take a verse or scripture and twist it to mean what they want it to without reading what came before and after of the scripture. Anyway, I thank you so much for writing this. It makes total and complete sense. Very Powerful!
July 19, 2014 at 12:43 pm
First to all Jesus never say those things. One of the problems Christians have by calling Jesus the Son Of God. That is the most stupid thing I have ever heard.
Jesus was nothing more than a prophet like moses was, if you really want to call some human being God why not call Adam God since we all came from him.
you stupid idiots.
July 20, 2014 at 6:47 pm
Mike,
I welcome you to my blog. You are welcome to share your perspective and opinion here as long as you can do so in a manner that shows mutual respect and civil dialog. It is natural and expected that we don’t all agree on these issues. This is ok, and everyone should be entitled to their opinion. You won’t see me attacking another individual for their beliefs here. I will not allow others to do so, either. If you can’t contribute intellectually, or within the framework of logical discourse, then I will certainly not allow your emotionally charged, attacking, and content-free comments from being posted here. I will excuse your first offense, since you are new here.
We all grow and learn when it is ideas that are critiqued and criticized, not people. It is perfectly legitimate to attack my ideas. It is completely fair to say that I am wrong about what I have written here and then to provide logical, defensible, evidence-supported reasons for why that is the case. We could both have a meaningful discussion about that. However, it is NEVER fair or valid debate to claim my ideas are untrue, and to support this claim by merely attacking my character, my intelligence, or my person. This is called “Argumentum ad Hominem”. It is a well established logical fallacy.
It’s a fallacy of logic because my arguments don’t depend on me. Even if you are correct, and I am a “stupid idiot”, this does not defeat the argument I have made. A parrot can be trained to recite Newton’s First Law of Motion. You can’t argue (legitimately) that the content of what the parrot says is untrue, simply because the parrot is not all that intelligent. If you are going to actually defeat the idea, you MUST attack the idea, not the parrot. Similarly, my ideas here are not my own. I did not create them. I am passing them on (like the parrot). Certainly, I agree with them. But, the ideas themselves cannot be defeated by a claim that I am stupid. That’s why this is not accepted logic, and is a rejected means of debate. In fact, to result to ad hominem is a sign that you can no longer defend or support your position by intellectual arguments. It’s in essence the same as sticking out your tongue and yelling, “Oh yeah, well you are a pooh-pooh head”.
My ides don’t threaten or impact you at all. Why do they anger you so much to the point of attacking and insulting me? Why do you care so much if we disagree? If I am wrong, why does that anger you? It does not anger or upset me that you do not believe in Jesus. It simply doesn’t affect me. I might suggest that there is something else below the surface here that creates this visceral reaction in you. As Shakespeare wrote in Hamlet, “He doth protest too much, me thinks!” Is there perhaps even a nugget in what I have said that you know deep down is true, and that you are trying to overcome by your attack of anyone who accepts this truth? It’s something for you to think on and consider. If you say this isn’t the case, how do you explain to yourself why it upsets you that I believe in Jesus?
Getting to the little content you did provide in your critique of my blog, you claimed that Jesus never said the things I quote him as saying. Ok, that is certainly an opinion. What evidence do you have to support that claim? None of us should base our fundamental beliefs on ideas lacking any substance or any evidential support, wouldn’t you agree? So I challenge you, what evidence can you provide to support your claim? It’s a fair question. It seems you are the lone expert on what Jesus did and didn’t say. Were you there? If not, then how do you know what he said? Do you have eyewitness testimony from people who were there? No? Ok, well I actually do.
In fact, what I base my beliefs on are the combined eyewitness testimony of 9 people who were actually there and actually saw what Jesus did and didn’t say. Their testimony is in harmony. These are the authors of the New Testament. It is important to remember that the bible was not written as one book. These writings weren’t consolidated until hundreds of years later. It is simply a collection of writings from eyewitnesses recording what they saw. You can say that you don’t believe the testimony of these witnesses, but why? What reason do you have to reject the relevant witness testimony? What other testimony do you have to offer that is more reliable than these? You can’t do that in court of law, and it is bad historical methodology to do so with history. It is not legitimate historical analysis to reject credible and valid eyewitness testimony simply because you don’t like what they said or you don’t agree with them. You cannot dismiss testimony without valid reason to do so.
If the testimonies of the 9 witnesses are not enough, I have more. To the 9, I can add 20 early Christian writers outside of New Testament writings, that further backup the testimony of the 9. These additional 20 witnesses recorded what they saw in writings that are not included in the bible, but that further support the testimony of the 9. In addition to these 29 eyewitness sources who were Christians, I can also add 9 sources that are distinctly non-Christian. These are Roman and Jewish writers and historians with no skin in the game in supporting a myth or perpetuating a false claim. Yet, they write about Jesus’ life, death, and resurrection, supporting all that is written about him by the 9 biblical authors. In fact, there are as many non-Christian sources who describe the life of Jesus (within 150 years of his life) as there are sources who talk about Roman emperor at the time (Tiberius Caesar)!
So, let’s summarize here. I have 29 confirmed and documented eyewitness accounts of the life of Jesus which support the most complete accounts (the ones written by the 9 biblical authors). All together that’s 38 eyewitness accounts! And, tell me again what you have to refute this monumental stack of firsthand eyewitness documentation? Oh that’s right, you know what Jesus said. And we are “stupid idiots” for not taking your word over those who were actually there. Well, maybe you’re right and I am stupid. But, I’m not relying on my own intelligence here. You are. I’m going with the weight of evidence.
You then claim that Jesus was just a prophet, like Moses. Again, how do you know? You provide no support for this claim. Moses didn’t claim to be God. Moses didn’t claim that all of the law and prophets were written about him. Moses didn’t claim the Passover meal symbolized his body and his blood. Moses wasn’t murdered for claiming to be God. Perhaps most importantly, Moses didn’t rise from the dead. Those are some pretty big differences, I’d say.
Since you bring up Moses, perhaps we should look at what Moses DID say. You might find it interesting to know that Moses actually prophesied about Jesus. He tried to warn people like you who would refuse to listen to the words of Jesus. . .
It is as if Jesus himself were speaking to you, personally, in the passage below . . .
Mike, I wish you the best. I would welcome continued discussion with you if you can show respect and avoid ad hominem. If you are interested in learning more about the substantial evidence that supports the New Testament I would suggest this blog I wrote as a starting point: http://missionarybrewer.wordpress.com/2013/07/08/can-the-new-testament-really-be-trusted/
Jake
July 26, 2014 at 10:44 pm
Sorry it is a religion. God “reaching down to man, to burn you forever if you don’t follow his dogma. Follow this god, or burn in hell forever. Sounds like you were cherry picking.
July 28, 2014 at 10:05 am
Stacy,
You conclude Christianity is a religion because of what happens to you if you don’t believe in it. How can you say something is a religion because of what the people who DON’T belong to it do? You don’t judge a club by what those who are not a part of it do. That would be like saying the Kiwanis or Elks Club are not a charitable organizations because there are people who are uncharitable who are not involved in these organizations. The Elks Club and Kiwanis don’t have anything to do with what those who are not apart of them do. They can only be judged by what THEY do and what THEIR practices and requirements are for those who belong to THEIR organization. Christianity has nothing to do with what happens to people who choose not to be included in it. A faith can only be judged as religions or not based on what it requires of those who DO belong to it.
Unlike any other faith, Christianity does not require those who belong to it to work and earn their favor from God. This is vastly different than any other faith! Christianity claims that man cannot earn anything from God and that favor can only be gained by trusting in God’s actions in place of ours. It is what Christianity demands of its followers that defines it (not what happens to those who choose to reject it). In this case, it is its lack of demands on its followers that sets it apart. It is this lack of requiring people to earn it themselves that differentiates Christianity from religion.
If don’t believe Christianity is true, why do you care what they believe will happen to those who don’t follow it? If Christianity isn’t true, then the fact that Christians believe you will go to hell doesn’t affect you at all. The beliefs of Christians about what happens to non-Christians should be completely irrelevant to non-Christians. If these beliefs don’t impact non-Christians, and they don’t impact Christians either, then it seems strange to me that it is these beliefs you would focus on to define Christianity as religious or not. It makes much more sense to focus on the beliefs that actually do impact those who adhere to Christianity. This is what sets the requirements for what it means to belong to the faith. What does Christianity require of those who would belong to it? That is the relevant question to answer when you are considering if it is a religion or not.
Also, your characterization of what Christians believe is a straw man. It’s easy to defeat, but it is a poor representation of what Christians actually believe. Christians believe that it is not God that is responsible for people going to hell, but people themselves. Christians believe that no one will go to hell involuntarily. Everyone who goes to hell will have chosen to go there. Christians don’t believe you go to hell for “not following his dogma”. They believe you go to hell because you intentionally reject the truth. Truth is not dogma. It is a set thing, its not a matter of opinion. It doesn’t change based on what we choose to believe. If I step off a cliff, I will fall downward. This is not a matter of opinion. If I believe I will go up, it doesn’t change the reality. The truth is that gravity is a constant and I am bound by it. I makes little sense for me to rail against nature because it punished me for refusing to accept its dogma of gravity.
The claim of Christianity is a truth claim. it is the claim that Jesus was God, that he actually lived and walked on this earth, that he really was crucified and died, historically, that he truly rose from the dead, and that he said that those who believe in him, trust in him, and follow him will be saved. This is either true or it isn’t. It is either fact or fiction. If it is fact, it isn’t dogma. If you reject it, you are not refusing to believe some dogma, you are refusing to accept reality. If I jump off the cliff because I refuse to accept the “dogma of gravity”, it doesn’t matter . . . I will still fall. Labeling a truth I don’t like “dogma” doesn’t make it any less true. Christianity claims people will go to hell who refuse to accept reality and who consciously turn their backs on the truth and refuse to believe it. Christians belief that those who go to hell will be the ones who refuse to acknowledge God for who he is. They will refuse to accept the reality that he is supreme and lord over them. They will refuse to submit to him and will try to rule their own lives. This is a conscious choice. It is not a choice of whether or not to accept dogma, it is a choice of whether or not to accept the reality of who God is.
If you were drowning in a lake and a lifeguard offers you his hand to save you, this offer of salvation isn’t dogma. It is not the lifeguards fault you chose to jump into the lake when you can’t swim. It makes no sense for you to be angry with the lifeguard who is offering you salvation from the situation you created for yourself. You can, of course, refuse the help and choose to drown. That is certainly your choice. No one will force you. However, the fact that some people choose to stay in the water even though they can’t swim and end up drowning as a result, doesn’t cast blame on the lifeguard who is trying to persuade them to accept his offer of salvation. You can call the fact that you are drowning and need help from the lifeguard “dogma” if you want, but this doesn’t change the situation. The reality remains. The lifeguard’s hand is still extended to you and he is still pleading for you to accept his free offer of salvation. You won’t drown because of action from the lifeguard. The life guard doesn’t “reach down to man” and cause you to drown. But, you can chose to drown on your own. The choice is entirely yours.
All other faiths teach that you must do something to pull yourself out of the water. All of them hold that we are drowning, by the way. That isn’t unique to Christianity. Virtually all faiths recognize that there is a problem and man has rebelled against God and as a result is in need or reconciliation with him. The difference comes in what they require you to do in order to gain that reconciliation. Most all faiths claim it is you that must learn to swim and crawl back out of the lake on your own. Christianity is alone in the claim that it is God himself (the one who was wronged by us) who does the saving. It is God alone who pulls us from the water if we choose to accept his hand. We aren’t saved by our own effort or actions. This is why Christianity IS very different. This is why it is so different, it isn’t actually religious in nature.
Stacy, I wish you the best and I will be praying that you will see Christianity for what it is. I will pray that you will see Jesus’ hand extended to you, offering you salvation. I will pray that you can see the truth claims of Christianity for what they are, truth, not dogma.
Jake
July 28, 2014 at 11:44 am
Jake, I am confused about your statement here: so what you saying in reality is that You have to accept Jesus as your savor in order to find salvation in paradise if not you will go to burning bush??
This bull: Jesus never claim to be the son of God, in fact Christianity is nothing more than pagan religion that is based on astrology, from the resurrection to the crucifixion is nothing more than a pagan believe. One thing I know though, that each and everyone one of us is responsible for our own actions, and if there is hell and heaven as I do believe, it is not going to be as easy as just being born again to enter paradise. I believe that earth elements were created for a purpose and the fire in hell will be a place for all human beings to experience. How long will you stay there it all depends on what you have done on this life. And the fact that God the one we cannot see and touch, will not like his creation calling him a father who has a son on earth to safe his children’s. And only a very small amount of humans will enter paradise.
I believed that when a human being associate God’s second hand by that I mean (saints, son’s of god) to save him from the hell of fire. God himself will keep everyone who associate him as a pagan God in the hell of fire for eternity.
Furthermore, just like each and everyone of us will have to die, each and everyone one of us will have to taste the fire before putting a foot inside paradise! As humans, it is very easy to claim someone else for our shortcomings but in the long rung you I are responsible for what we do in this life. And whatever you think you follow as your religion to be correct, it all depends weather you associate God as a pagan God and hell of fire and your resting place will be for eternity. Jesus cannot take blame to save you from the fire as he never claim to do so.
I do believe the closes and purest belives from what I have red it is the Quran…and prophet Mohammed who he never claim to be above God and to be nothing more than a servant to God.
Mike
July 28, 2014 at 12:38 pm
Mark… You are very closed minded. I have been following the comments on this blog for a while now and 90% of it’s contents disgust me. May I say to all of those who have been cut down or battered for your beliefs, do not change your opinions of religion because of one man or one idea that is different than yours. We each have the right to our own search for religious truth and a personal relationship with the god in which we desire. God is infinite, omnipotent and omnipresent. Therefore, who is to say that god cannot be all of these claims in all of these religions. Every man is different and may interpret god in the way that tends to his life most effectively because it is not for others that we praise his name, it is for him. Taylor your god to your own needs and remove the different names from your practice. If you call your faith by name (I.e. Christianity, Judaism, Islamic, Buddhism, Hinduism, Taoism, Atheism, Agnosticism) you are subscribing to religion. I don’t care what bologna this guy is preaching. When you find your own answers within yourself and learn your place beneith the greater power, you are no longer a religious person and are now a spiritual person. Always seek out to know and have a connection with the almighty… That is what pleases him. Everyone knows that deep down after casting aside all of the man made teachings and claims of self righteousness. We are all capable of paving our own path to god.
July 28, 2014 at 1:43 pm
Mike,
Let me make sure I end any confusion. Yes, I absolutely claim that if you do not accept Jesus Christ as God and do not repent of your sin and place your faith and trust in his death on the cross as payment for your sin, you will go to hell. This is not only my claim, it is the claim of Christianity, it is the claim of the bible and it was the claim of Jesus Christ Himself.
I think we have well established by now that you don’t believe this. I don’t think there is any need for you to state that again. I get it. you don’t believe this and you believe something different. What you still have not done is provide any reason why anyone else should care what you believe. You have provided no reason why your belief is superior to mine. I have provided historical evidence for my claim. You have claimed before (and again in your last comment) that Jesus never claimed to be God. But, we have recorded testimony from people who were there stating that he did claim this. You have completely failed to provide any rebuttal testimony. You have completely failed to provide ANY evidence whatsoever for your belief. How can you claim that Jesus never said he was the Son of God when every single eyewitness testimony we have asserts that he did? How is that a logical conclusion from the available information? This question stands unanswered by you and it’s an insurmountable objection until you address it. Here is a link listing numerous time Jesus asserted to be the Son of God as recorded by those who witnessed it: https://bible.org/question/does-jesus-fact-say-he-god%E2%80%99s-son-not-just-infer-it
You then claim Christianity is just a pagan religion. I am at a loss to even know what you mean by this, since the very definition of “pagan” is that which is not Christian (or not any another major religion). Paganism is defined by being anti-Christian (and anti other major religions). So, it is hard to understand how you can claim Christianity is pagan. If Christianity is pagan, then paganism isn’t pagan! That’s like claiming a circle is rectangle. The definition of a rectangle is a shape that has four pointed corners. It is by definition non-circular. If you say a circle is a rectangle, then what is a rectangle?
I can only assume that you mean to imply that Christianity is somehow based on an previous pagan religions. If that is what you mean, I have already written much about this claim here in these comments. Please read my response to DS in comment #76. You remark about Christianity being based on astrology is rebutted in my response to Jay in comment #91. It’s a neat sounding claim, but neither you nor anyone who has attempted to make this claim here before you, have been able to provide any evidence to support it. As I have repeatedly explained here, it is a logical fallacy (the False Cause Fallacy) to claim that just because two religions have similar beliefs, that one is based on the other. This is not always the case, and in fact historians have found it is rarely true. You must be able to demonstrate that one and motive and opportunity to base their religion on the predecessor. In the case of Judaism and Christianity, historians and repeatedly confirmed this is not the case. At any rate, it is a wild claim and the burden of proof is certainly on you, since you are making the claim. What evidence can you provide to support your claim?
As for me, I can provide substantial evidence for the historical reality of the items you claim are nothing more than pagan beliefs (the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus). These events are some of the best documented historical events in the first century. They aren’t documented by pagans, but by Jewish and Roman historians. What reason do we have for disbelieving their accounts? Why do you pick and choose which history you will accept and what history you reject from the contemporary historical accounts at the time of Jesus’ life? This just doesn’t make sense. How can you claim, for example, that the JEWISH historian, Josephus, would pull from pagan myth to describe the death and resurrection of Jesus? He is not pagan. He was a devout Jew. He hated the pagan religions of his day. He is not a pagan source. It is just irrational to conclude his account was influenced by paganism.
You claim that the Quran is the “purest”, but (unlike the bible) there are clear and unavoidable historical inaccuracies in the Quran. It claims, for example, that Jesus was never killed, but that he only “appeared” dead. This is clearly rebutted by so much eyewitness testimony that was recorded within 100 years of the event. The Quran wasn’t written until 700 years later. Modern medical science has determined that no one could survive the trauma inflicted upon Jesus. Even Jesus’ own enemies at the time admitted that he died and that his body had disappeared. The Quran calls Alexander the Great a righteous man and a teacher, yet he was idolatrous and claimed to be the son of Amun, the God of Egypt. The Qur’an claims that Haman was pharaoh’s prime minister even though Haman lived in Babylon one thousand years later. It calls people Samaritans who lived long before the nation of Sumeria was even established. It claims human beings are formed by a clot of blood. It claims that the sun sets in a spring of murky water. The Quran claims God took Muhammad to the “al-Aqsa” mosque in Jerusalem, but Muhammad died before the mosque was constructed. It claims that Mary, Jesus’ mother, was the sister or Aaron and the daughter of Imran. That would make her about 1500 years old. I could go on. It is fraught with problems.
As for me, I will stick with the actual firsthand eyewitness testimony. I won’t go with claims that come in hundreds on years after the fact, from people who were not there, when the actual witnesses are dead and cannot respond. I certainly won’t go with what you believe is the truth. I require evidence. The weight of the historical data is on my side.
July 28, 2014 at 4:09 pm
Christ is not God. Let see, everything that I am saying has been recorded and I will be questioned on judgement day. I will remember that when you are in the burning fire and you ask me for a glass of water. I will remind you then to ask Christ to give you a glass of water, and he will tell you, this is not my place, ask God.
August 10, 2014 at 12:38 pm
I have really enjoyed this web mini sermon . I have one thing to point out about the definition of religion the word and it’s definition is made by man and not by God . The only thing we have to go by in this world is the bible and the Holy Spirit . Just as the many different definitions of religion (and may I add I agree with your definition ) .As a relationship with Christ can be felt just as a relationship with another person can be felt it isn’t really tangable you may be able to touch the person but the relationship is a feeling not a man made word or definition . In conclusion I believe the only person who can define us or anything pertaining to or relationship with God is God as his word is the bible and the purity of it is what makes it so special .Thanks for your great work
God bless
Jason M Darnell
August 11, 2014 at 12:10 pm
Alan,
I’m not really sure how to respond to your comment. It is so angry, unloving, and accusatory. I wonder what I have ever done to earn such hatred from you. I certainly don’t hate you or wish you ill will. I wish you the best, and desire nothing but good for you. In fact, I think the contrast here speaks a lot about the origin of each our positions on this issue. I don’t know who you are or what God you worship. But, if the God you worship can be represented by your callous and uncaring refusal to give a glass of water to someone who is burning, then I am confident that it’s not a god I want to serve, or the “greatest possible being”. In contrast to a god that would condone such hatred, I present Jesus Christ; who loved sinners so much He freely chose to come to earth and die in their place! The bible says He loved us while we were still His enemies (Rom 5:8-10). This is a God who calls His followers to love their enemies and pray for those who persecute us (Matt 5:44). Quite a stark contrast to your actions here. Your lack of concern for those who don’t hold your position betrays your beliefs as not being from God.
Given the choice to relying on the compassion of Jesus Christ to give me a drink of water or you, I’ll ask Jesus. He’s demonstrated the character of someone worth asking and worth worshiping. He also claimed to be the “Living Water” and that no one who drinks from Him will ever be thirsty again (John 7:38-39). I’ll stick with Him.
I truly do wish you the best, and I pray that you will come to an understanding of Jesus Christ and see Him for who He truly is. He stands right now offering you the cup of water you would deny me.
August 11, 2014 at 2:42 pm
Fatimustonius,
My name is Jake, not Mark. I agree with you that “We each have the right to our own search for religious truth and a personal relationship with god”. I have never said otherwise here. I have always showed respect to each person’s right to have their own opinion and their right to disagree with me. I have never “cut down or battered” a person for their beliefs. I respect your and others’ rights to disagree with me. I have stated this in virtually every comment I have made to those who disagree with what I am saying here. Your accusation is simply unfounded.
I think where you get confused is in thinking that one must agree that everyone’s opinion is equally valid (equally correct) in order to respect their right to have an opinion. It is certainly reasonable to demand that others respect your right to have an opinion. However, it is NOT reasonable to demand that others view your opinion as equally valid. It is not reasonable to demand that others view your opinion as equally true to the one they believe is actually true. Just because I think your opinion is incorrect, that doesn’t imply that I am not allowing you freedom to hold it, or that I don’t respect you as a person.
I have been very careful to attack only ideas and not people in my comments here. Even when I have been personally attacked instead of my ideas (a frequent occurrence), I have responded by focusing my critique on the ideas presented and not on the individuals presenting them. Attacking ideas is fair game. That is what argument and debate is all about. No one ever grows or learns unless ideas are allowed to be challenged. Also, no one ever learns anything when all ideas (no matter how farfetched) must be considered equally valid.
Just because we all have a right to our pursuit of religious truth, does not at all imply that we all are correct. It does not at all imply that we all find the actual truth. If this was really the case, it would imply that there is no truth to pursue. There would be nothing true to discover. You don’t actually believe in a pursuit of truth, you actually believe in an invention of reality to fit you own whim. Truth is a concrete thing. That is what means for something to be ‘true’ as opposed to ‘false’.
When a scientists seeks to understand the truth of why the planets move the way they do, he does not suppose that he can simply invent any answer he feels comfortable with and then demand all other scientists hold his idea as equal with anything they come up with. No, he actually pursues the truth. He investigates to see which theory, which explanation fits the observable data best. He doesn’t claim that his idea is equally valid as anyone else’s just because it is an idea. It is only valid as long as it fits the data. Its value must be tested and earned. The scientist welcomes challenges to his theory. Scientists assert positions and challenge the positions of others in a legitimate desire to seek truth. That is what I am attempting to do here.
It is a given that some theories are correct and others are wrong. This should be obvious because some scientific theories are in clear contradiction. You react so violently when I suggest the same thing is true about religious belief. What I find fascinating is that no one has that reaction to any other situation in life. If a random stranger stops me on the street and asks how to get to Century Link Field in Seattle, I don’t say, “It doesn’t matter, just find the path that works for you, man, and follow it whole-heartedly. You will get there.” If I did respond that way, the person would probably ask me what I’m smoking (it is Washington State after all). Then, they would probably get upset that I didn’t give them a real answer. If I tell the stranger, “Head South on the I-5 Interstate and get off at exit 165A at James St.”, they wouldn’t likely respond saying that I was close minded for claiming there is only one direction to head. If you are seeking how to get someplace, it is logical to assume there is a correct way to get there and many ways that will not get you there. It is simply common sense. However, when it comes to religious truth people want to turn off all logic and reason.
It turns out that, once you really look this, not all religions can be correct. This idea may sound appealing, but it is simply not even possible. It doesn’t hold up under closer examination. Religions make exclusive truth claims that are in clear contradiction. They can’t all be true. They are like roads heading in completely different directions. If one is right, the others must be wrong. For example, take man’s central problem. Some religions will assert that it is sin, others that it is ignorance, still others that the major problem is unenlightenment. The necessary human response is faith in some, repentance in others, obedience in many, performance of rituals in another, meditation or emptying of self in still others. How the main human dilemma is resolved could be salvation, liberation, or enlightenment.
Jesus Christ cannot both be God incarnate (the claim of Christianity) and not be God incarnate (the claim of Judaism and Islam). Contradictory religious claims have opposite truth value, meaning that they negate or deny each other. Therefore, exactly one is true and the other false. And, accordingly, Jesus Christ must either be God incarnate or not be God incarnate; no middle position is possible (either A or non-A). Either all of these religions have it wrong, or only one of them is right. There is no third option of them being in agreement. They simply aren’t.
What is so comical to me about your comment is that you commit the very action that you are accusing me of doing. You attack me for claiming that there is only one way to God and that is through Jesus. I am “closed minded”. However, the very act of you making this statement is itself close minded. You are judging my position as invalid. All ideas are no longer equally valid. How is that different from what you are accusing me of doing? How is that tolerant or open minded? You claim that everyone just needs to define their own truth, but then claim I am preaching “bologna”. It’s so ironic. To make an emphatic, concrete, firm religious claim that there is no concrete, firm religious truth is fundamentally flawed logic, not to mention totally hypocritical. Your claim that there is no one true religion is, itself, is a claim that something is true . . . that universalism is true.
You are making an exclusive truth claim. Your claim is in competition with other truth claims. They cannot all be correct (or you have no place is criticizing my position). You have already made it clear that you believe my truth claim is invalid (“bologna”). Therefore you are asserting an exclusive claim about what is true about God. How is this different than what I am doing? At least my claim has the benefit of being internally consistent, while yours is clearly incongruent. In fact, it commits suicide. J.W. Wartick puts it this way:
It is important to point out that you are making a basic assumption: that no one religion has the whole story. Every religion is like a blind man describing the part of the elephant they happen to be touching. They are describing something they cannot possibly know or understand. That is a bold assertion that demands some evidence to support it. How do we know that no religion has it right? Mysteriously, this same predicament, however, apparently doesn’t apply to you! You are the only non-blind man capable of seeing what everyone else has missed. The problem is that this places you as the only one whose claims about the God are true. Your presumption assumes the invalidity of all other religious claims. Only you can see that all religious claims to exclusivity are false. All of the other systems of belief are “blind men”. You, alone, will tell us “what pleases him”.
But, this is not the reality. The reality is that you are in the same situation as the rest of us. You have no special knowledge. You are not the only person able to peek beyond the veil to view God. You are not the only man who can see. If all the world’s religions can be compared to blind men, so too can the pluralist. You are just another blind man claiming that all the rest don’t have the correct view. Why, then, should your idea be taken as more probable than mine or anyone else’s? How does he know this? If the true nature of God is unknowable, then how is one able to know that God is unknowable?
The idea that God doesn’t care about these major aspects of the specific religions is actually in clear contradiction to the teachings of virtually all the religions! In fact, virtually none of the world religions teach this idea. You are essentially trying to uphold the truth of all people’s individual beliefs by denying the truth of something that the vast majority of the world’s religions (and thus the vast majority of people) believe. It is an attempt to establish universal agreement by denying perhaps the only thing that actually has nearly universal agreement.
You assume that we are all capable of “paving our own path to god”, but how do you know this is true? Are you God’s chosen messenger to us? What source do you draw from that proves or validates this claim? If we are all able to define our own god and our own path, what of the Buddhist or atheist who doesn’t even believe in the existence of a God? What evidence can you provide that supports your claim? Like the scientist who is actually seeking the truth, I want to test your theory against the evidence. I wish to compare the evidence for your position with the evidence that supports mine. What can you offer?
August 17, 2014 at 1:53 am
Well honestly I’ve learnt alot it has broadened my mind about what christainity is all about.
August 26, 2014 at 11:55 pm
thank you so much.
all grace and love,
Lyra
August 29, 2014 at 10:39 am
Greetings
I Sarfraz Tomas from pakistan. I have studied your web site, and I found it the most wonderful site to get right to the True Word of God. My suggestion for you is to create your material in my language of Urdu, Punjabi, Hindi, Pashto, Sindhi, Sraiki, and Balochi also. It will bring lots of blessings of the Word of God for the Pakistani and Indian Urdu and Punjabi and other local languages speaking people. For that purpose, I as a translator will bring your material into my languages and into Indian language as well. I will be printing and distributing your material to my people around me. Although it will take your low expenses as well, as fund for the Word of God to reach out to the deserving people. I my self, work on a local radio station also. Many times it becomes difficult for us to keep doing this because of being minorities and because of the lack of the financial resources. I will wait for your response.
Sincerely yours
Sarfraz Tomas
September 20, 2014 at 9:48 pm
Hi, May I correct one thing here please. Buddhism is not a religion that in anyway includes God or a way of relationship with God. It is infact all about self improvement, to put it very simply. I’m not advocating Buddhism but just indicating that this is one point that might be worth correcting. Drew
September 20, 2014 at 10:19 pm
To Marion, I would just like to say that you are much loved by God. Even if you feel he has not met your expectations I can assure you he wants a relationship with you. The best way, at this time, to reassure you that he has not given up on you is to say I have that relationship and others have that relationship that you say you have not experienced after trying for so long. The question is why do I have that relationship and you do not? I’m no better than you. I do not deserve it more than you. God brought me to the end of myself. I was crying out to him to help me find a way to come to this. It was agonising but in the end amazing. The key is to truly want to die to self. To give our lives to him on a daily basis. To listen to his word (the bible) to talk to him (prayer) daily. To live in humility and trust. I’m 60 now. I gave my life to Christ in 1980 and it has has taken me this long to die to self. What a stubborn and foolish man I was. But I had been hurt by life and although I did not really realize it, I had preconceived ideas of how God should help my out of my pain. No scripture quotes here, I’m sorry and I could list so many. Go back to your bible (gods word) look at the word gave, this may help you. There is something in the way of that relationship you wanted so badly. When that is out of the way you will have relationship with your Father. Hugs and love in Christ, Drew
September 24, 2014 at 3:38 am
Thanks immensely for that distinction and clarification….may God strengthen you.
September 24, 2014 at 9:26 am
Drew,
Thank you for the comment. Buddhism is certainly a religion. However, you are correct in that most Buddhists do not believe in God. It is an atheistic religion. This drives home my point home that belief in a supreme deity is not the definition of a religion. I find it ironic that while I have repeatedly been accused of defining the word “religion” too narrowly here, the alternative proposed definitions I have been given (essentially belief in a god) are actually too narrow to include the religion of Buddhism. My definition certainly does encompass Buddhism. . .
Like all religions, Buddhism revolves around self-improvement (as you correctly say). Like all religions, the way to reach paradise or the ultimate reality is through our effort. The way to reach “Nirvana” in Buddhism is the “Eightfold Path”. This is essentially acting and thinking better. Buddhism boils down to a plan to better oneself by our own willpower and effort. It must rely on us, since Buddhism denies the existence of a transcendent God. In stark contrast to this, Jesus teaches that man cannot better ourselves by our own effort. As I explained in my blog article, Christianity is unique in this sense. Jesus taught that it was only God who can improve us. It is only God who can earn righteousness. Jesus came to accomplish this task. The way to peace and paradise in Jesus’ teaching is only through Him and His life and death substituted in place of yours. This is completely different. Instead of an Eightfold path, Jesus presented one path, placing your trust and in Him as savior. Jesus taught that he alone was the path (the way). This is why Christianity does not fall in the the same category as all the others.
So, while I agree with you that Buddhism is not a theistic religion, it is certainly still a religion and it does fit into the same category as all of the other religions (unlike the unique faith of Christianity). I think the essence of what I say of Buddhism in the blog is accurate.
God bless,
Jake
October 4, 2014 at 2:13 pm
Is it true that Jesus Christ practised Judaism when he was on earth.
October 5, 2014 at 4:07 pm
Idowu,
Of course it’s true that Jesus practiced Jewdaism. He was Jewish. He was a Jewish Rabbi. He was a descendant of King David. Jesus completed and fulfilled Judaism. He came to end repetative animal sacrifice by becoming the eternal sacrifice for sins, once for all sins. He came to replace the tribe of Levi as the priests, becoming the permanent priest that intercedes with the Father for us. He came to replace the prophets, sending the Holy Spirit to reside in all believers, providing guidance to each of us. He came to end the linage of earthly kings, become the King of Kings that will rule forever. Jesus became prophet, priest and king as well as sacrifice. All of Judaism points towards Jesus. All of Jewdaism is about Jesus, preparing the world for His appearance. With the coming of Jesus true Judaism became what we call Christianiaty today. Those who practice the religion of Judahism today, deny that Jesus was God’s chosen one and are still waiting for their messiah to show up. However, there is no way to really be Jewish today (in the strict scriptural sense). That’s because there is no High priest (the line of priests ended), there is no temple (it was destroyed), there are no prophets (no one has spoken for God sense John the Baptist and Jesus), and there is no king descended from David. This is no coincidence. God is not asleep. With the coming of Jesus, Judahism became the Jewish sect we call Christianity.
October 7, 2014 at 1:07 pm
I just spent several hours reading through this one blog post and ALL the comments. I have a question about something about God and Jesus that bothers me. Why am I here if I am nothing of any beauty or worth to God? Why does God only want to see Jesus when he looks at me? I thought he knew my name. As I have studied Jesus and Christianity, I imagine heaven must be a place where only the image of Jesus exists, if none of us who will be there will actually be ourselves, but covered and look only like Jesus, act like him, etc. I find this a real challenge to my sense of being able to be loved and lovable. It makes me feel like I have to disappear, not be human or have a distinct personality in any way. These are true frustrations of mine. I am not being snide in any way. Why do I have to be so ashamed? Why can’t I trust that God loves ME? If he is a personal God wanting a relationship with me, does he like my sense of humor? The way I love my kids? My patience with my annoying mother? Anything about ME at all? I don’t understand him loving me, dying for me and then not wanting me there, but instead only see himself. I would like to have some peace about God loving me. And I don’t understand Jesus living thru me, either. Why am I here if it’s all about Jesus? Why create me just to tell me I’m nothing but garbage and rags, then say “here, put this on and I’ll let you in”. These are some of my deepest questions I don’t dare ask my Christian friends. I’ve learned they will distance from me and always look at me with the look of “not like the rest of us”. I go to church, I worship, I pray, I study, I’ve grown, but these questions still persist. I’d welcome your input.
October 7, 2014 at 3:33 pm
Sue,
Thank you for your comment. Please don’t feel afraid to ask questions. If your Christian friends don’t know the answers or look down on you, go talk to a pastor. I bet they will gladly be willing to sit down with you and answer any questions you have. I certainly am willing to help in any way I can.
I think you are asking some good questions. The way I see it, your confusion comes from not distinguishing yourself from your sinful nature. Yes, God loves you. Yes, God knows your name. Yes, God desires a relationship specifically with you, as an individual. Yes, he likes your sense of humor. He created it.
The fact that God loves you does not mean that he loves the sin within your heart, though. I love my child. But when my child decides to cover himself head-to-toe in dirt from outside, I don’t want him in my bed. He must be clean in order to get in the bed. Therefore I am willing to lovingly help him get cleaned up. This is what God does with His children.
God does love you, but we have all gone our own way and sinned against Him. We all stand like dirty little children covered in our own filth. God loves you so much that He has gone to all lengths to make a way for you to get clean. He desires to clean you up, removing the stains of sin from you, and helping you become the version of yourself He intended. He is the expert craftsman. He designed you. He loves everything about your personality…except the selfishness, pride, and rebellion. Those are a corruption of your true personality. They are the cancer that is infecting it. This is not who you really are. This is the corrupted version of the true Sue. He wants to help you become the Sue He created you to be.
You ask, “Why am I here if I am nothing of any beauty or worth to God?” Human beings were created perfect and without any sin. We are here to worship and praise God and to bring Him glory. That is our purpose. Our beauty and worth comes from the fact that we are created in His image. Each one of us reflects God’s beauty in a different way. Each of us is unique but equally worthwhile, because we all bear His image. As a result of this amazing fact, we are worth more than any other creature on earth.
So, to answer your question, you DO have beauty and worth and this beauty and worth is God’s worth reflected in you. You are not here because of your beauty and worth. You are here to enjoy HIS beauty and worth, and reflect that to the world! So, to answer your other question about why you are here if it is all about Jesus, it’s because God created you to bring glory to Jesus and enjoy Him forever. That’s why you are here.
The problem is that we have all chosen to mar this image. We have covered it up with filth. He have chosen to sin, which is the antithesis of who God is. We have all rejected God and chosen to go our own way. This sin has not only placed guilt upon us, but it has also created separation between us and God. There is nothing we can do to fix this problem. There is no way we can clean ourselves up. We all have dirty hands. The only way is for someone else with clean hands to wash us. This is what Jesus does. He’s the only one with clean hands.
You asked, “Why create me just to tell me I’m nothing but garbage and rags, then say “here, put this on and I’ll let you in?”. But, you need to understand that He didn’t create you to be garbage and rags. He created you to be beautiful. But, it’s mankind, it’s us, who rejected His design and creation and covered ourselves in garbage and rags. He is offering to clean you up and return you to the state He created you to be. You can either choose to allow Him to clean you up or defiantly refuse and stay in your filth. Whatever you do, you cannot blame God for creating you that way. You are a sinner by choice as well as nature.
You misunderstand what I said above. I never that God “only wants to see Jesus and not you”. What I said was when God looks at believers He sees Jesus’ goodness and worth, not ours. In other words, God no longer sees our pathetic attempts to clean ourselves. Instead, When God looks at one of His children He sees all the righteous actions of Jesus Christ and credits that to their account! God looks at you as if you had lived the life Jesus lived! He doesn’t look at me and see all the times I was selfish, the times I treated my sister poorly or yelled at my wife. No, when Jesus looks at me he sees me, but he sees me as if I was just as clean as Jesus. He sees me they way He created to me to be, apart from my ugly sin. Jesus’ righteousness covers me. His righteousness becomes my righteousness.
Once you repent and follow Jesus you no longer have to approach Jesus as a sinner. Instead you can come confidently as His child, just like Jesus. This doesn’t in any way diminish your personality or uniqueness. The dirt on my child doesn’t make him any more lovable or worthwhile. It must be removed for his true beauty to show. This is the same for you.
This is an inaccurate view of heaven. All believers will have unique bodies and unique personalities in heaven. This is very clear from multiple bible passages (e.g. Gen. 25:8; 35:29; 49:29; Num. 20:24; Judg. 2:10, 1 Cor. 15:12–57, Matt. 8:11, 17:3; Luke 22:17–18). We will recognize each other and remember past events and people. We will have new bodies that are perfected, but you will still be recognizable as yourself. We won’t all be clones of Jesus. I’m not sure where you got that idea. In the same way that the disciples could recognize Jesus after His resurrection, we will be recognizable. Jesus still even had his scars. You will still be you, just the perfected and glorified version of yourself. You are much more than a body. You are spirit as well. Your spirit will exist in a new body that will have abilities well beyond your current one. It will no longer get sick, deteriorate, or get tired. Your mental capacity will increase. You will no longer struggle with having a sinful nature. You won’t struggle with temptation within yourself to do sinful things. But, you will still be Sue. You will retain your personality, your memories, and your identity.
God’s relationship with you will be unique. You are His child. Just like our children, we have unique relationships with each of them. In fact, the bible says that Jesus will give you a white stone with a special secret name that only He will call you (Rev 2:17). You will even have a pet name.
Hopefully this helps clear some of your questions up. Please fee free to ask anything else you would like and I will try to help.
Jake
October 7, 2014 at 7:29 pm
Thank for your speedy reply, Jake. I will be back to read more tomorrow. This explanation has given me much to think about.
October 11, 2014 at 4:45 pm
Hi Jake,
Thank you I really appreciate your God given gift to put Gods love for us into words that speak to me. What I am unsure of is how do we get through this life, everyday, how do we hear and see all the evil in this world and not allow ourselves to become hard of heart what is Gods will how do we not be fearful? I want to remain faithful but negativity is everywhere, any advice would be so appreciated God bless
October 12, 2014 at 10:04 am
Powerful great.thanks a lot got a lot from.This gotta share with others..
October 15, 2014 at 9:44 am
[…] Religion scared me. I couldn’t grasp the concept of believing in something I couldn’t see, something I couldn’t touch, or feel. Churches were for weddings and funerals. It wasn’t until Tarek, this cute guy I had grown to care for, stared in my eyes as he asked where I thought I would go once I died. […]
October 22, 2014 at 8:04 pm
I totally agree but I think you should empathize that the church or congregation shouldn’t be involved in the world that pursues the lust of the eyes, the lust of the flesh and the pride of life. These are the things the world does that are selfish and produce a hatred toward God because lust is not of God for God is love and true love is he. He was also a servant of his servants. (Humble) You need to also stress that adding and taking away from the word of God is the unforgivable sin which religion often does. The Holy Spirit is the word of God also to which you do not want to call a liar. Only by the faith of a little child shall you enter the kingdom of God thus faith is required for salvation. Remember: faith without works is dead. We must try to live a holy existence to show we believe and to never judge someone falling out of grace but to lift them up in times of trial. You are a true Christian my friend as good works are nothing without true faith and belief. Go with God you truly are his friend. Rules are a guided path that we may know the difference but still should be abided by with understanding that we all fail and that’s why believing God can forgive us for all sin except one. Jesus is the Lord, we are not, amen?
October 23, 2014 at 8:16 am
Michael,
Thanks for commenting. I think we are generally in agreement. I certainly believe that a Christian should pursue God, forsake worldly sin and strive to live a holy life. All true Christians will do so, by the gift of God’s grace through the power of the Holy Spirit. It is very true that faith without works is dead, because faith that does not result in works was never faith at all to begin with. A relationship with God is never the result of works but it also never fails to result in works.
I think I would want to change one statement you made, though. You said, “I think you should empathize that the church or congregation shouldn’t be involved in the world that pursues the lust of the eyes, the lust of the flesh and the pride of life.” While I agree we as believers should not engage in sinning, I do not agree that the church should not be involved in a world that does so. Our example in this regard is Jesus. Jesus was not separate from the world that pursued sin. He entered into the midst of it. He even sought out those who were most steeped in it and hung around them. He associated with the most sinful and worldly people in His culture. I believe the modern church often forgets this and lives too far removed from those who Jesus has called us to surround ourselves with.
There is a huge difference between being “in the world” and being “of the world”. Jesus has sent us into the world. We are not to separate ourselves from it. What hope has darkness if the light removes itself from it? We can be light in the midst of darkness. That is our mission.
You say rules are a guided path so that we can know what is right and wrong, but this statement also gives me some pause. It is certainly true that there are rules given in the New Testament that help guide us. But, they really only serve as wide boundaries. Much is left to the Holy Spirit within us. Someone who is following Jesus and is filled with the Holy Spirit has little need for rules. What changed at Pentecost is that we now have the Holy Spirit speaking to us, guiding us, and correcting us. His instruction to each of us is not the same. We are to listen to His voice within us and follow His guiding. The “rules” in the NT only help provide boundaries for us. They are like guardrails on the highway. They are there so that we can make sure we are hearing the Spirit correctly, because He will never tell us to do something in contradiction with what is in Scripture. Hopefully that helps clarify what I am saying.
The only unpardonable sin is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, or the refusal to believe the Holy Spirit’s testimony about Jesus (as described in Mark 3 and Matthew 12). In the context that Jesus spoke of the unpardonable sin, he was talking of the Pharisees who not only refused to give credit to God for Jesus’ miracles, but attributed these good works done by the Holy Spirit to Satan. These works by the Spirit were done to show that Jesus was the Christ. The Spirit’s ministry was to point to Jesus. To blasphemy Him is to deny the One who He is pointing toward…Jesus. Dr. Henry Morris explains this well. . .
Another respected Christian theologian, Dr. F.F. Bruce, notes . . .
Hopefully that helps to clarify some things.
Jake
October 31, 2014 at 8:45 am
I Now understand and am blessed.
November 8, 2014 at 2:04 pm
Galatians 5: 19-21
19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkennhess, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
You forgot that part.
November 8, 2014 at 8:32 pm
Bob,
No, I didn’t forget that part at all. Those absolutely are acts of the flesh. You have somehow misconstrued what I said, if you think I am in any way advocating any of those sinful things. What specifically is it that I said that led you to think I believe otherwise?
I find it intriguing that you quote from Galations 5. This is the very chapter where Paul condemns those who think they can earn righteousness from obeying the law. This is the very chapter where Paul contrasts living by the Spirit and living by religion. All I am doing in this blog post is to reiterate Paul’s very point in that chapter. He urges believers to resist slavery to the law. Read the whole chapter, my friend. Here is an excerpt . . .
If that sounds familiar it’s because it’s the same point I was making in the post above.
Jake
November 18, 2014 at 11:20 am
Absolutely true!!! Religion is Man-made theology. If Christianity was just Religion then we’d all be going to Hell! But thank God through grace we are saved!! not through works lest any man should boast!
-Ephesians 2:8-
Jessica
November 19, 2014 at 6:40 am
White Christians used Paul’s words to justify lynching Blacks. “Christians” sang hymns at the lynchings of Blacks for the crime of being Black…all based on the interpretation of the Bible, and all of them going home feeling “holier than they were.” When did the Bible change? No wonder the Church is dying off. People see Christianity as a private club for hypocrites.
God did not sit down with a pen and paper and write the Bible. It is a collection of historical documents that were written, rewritten and rewritten by men of their time. Men are fallible, God is not. No where in the Original Bible did Jesus said once “I am the son of God”. What you see and hear today is all fabricated.
Jesus was a good man of his time, no more no less and not the son of God. He could not save anybody nor was he able to save his own life. And today, these ignorant, self-righteous preachers tell us that Jesus died for our sins. What a nonsense! Preachers don’t make the truth. They either report it or distort it.
Olow
November 19, 2014 at 4:46 pm
Tony,
Thanks for reading and commenting. I am happy to discuss and address the objections you bring up. I strongly encourage you to objectively look at the evidence for Christianity, as some of the objections you raise have already been clearly and thoroughly rebutted and refuted. You owe it yourself to honestly and objectively look at the evidence and information regarding the points you bring up. If you aren’t willing to look at this evidence, at least be honest with yourself that you aren’t really being objective.
You raised many objections, so I’ll try to answer each as briefly as I can while trying not to ignore any point. Your first point is a claim that Christians used the bible to justify lynching blacks and to justify slavery. There are four counter points I would like to raise about this objection. Many of them should be very obvious.
1. This type of argument is founded on a logical fallacy. This argument is invalid from the get-go because it is poor reasoning. It commits the logical fallacy of Ad Hominem. It’s dismissing the claim of Christianity because of the character or behavior of someone who promotes it. The problem with this is that a truth claim is not dependent on the behavior, character, or intelligence of the one making the claim. A claim of fact is either true or false regardless of who is the one who asserts it. It stands on its own.
Calling someone a “stupid-head” doesn’t refute their point. They could be both stupid and correct. In fact, many unintelligent people believe many true things. Similarly, you can’t discredit the factual claims of Christianity by simply saying that some Christians have been immoral or done evil acts. Even if this is true, it doesn’t refute the truth claim. Many immoral and evil people have said truthful things, as well. For example, it’s illogical to argue that JFK never spoke anything truthful simply because he was unfaithful to his wife and lied about it.
Just because some Christians do evil things doesn’t mean Christianity, itself, is evil. Christians are people. They are imperfect and do many evil things. The claim of Christianity is not that Christians become perfect or even better than other people. The claim of Christianity is that there was only one perfect person, Jesus. We all screw up. Sometimes badly. Ironically, this is the very point I am making in the blog post above, that Christians have failed to live up to what Jesus taught and in many cases have tried to add to it. However, pointing out that Christians have done bad things doesn’t in anyway show that Christianity isn’t true (since Christianity doesn’t even claim otherwise). It’s like saying that math is wrong because your math teacher cheated on his wife. It simply doesn’t follow.
What is important to ask is what the bible actually says about the issue. Did Jesus teach people to lynch blacks? I think not. Then it can hardly be fair to argue that those who did so were following and correctly applying the teaching of Christianity. This is a disingenuous claim, and I think you know it. The Bible actually teaches that in the eyes of God there is no difference between male or female, slave or freeman, or any race. . . all are equal (Gal 3:27-29). What an amazing and revolutionary idea when this was written! This concept was completely foreign in the ancient world.
2. Just because someone claims to be a Christian doesn’t mean they are. Many people claim to be all kinds of things.
Claiming that Christianity condones the murder of black people, because people used the bible as justification for these crimes, is like saying that Darwin was a fascist because Hitler used his writings to justify his actions. People have claimed to be Christians and done all kind of terrible things. In fact, Hitler even said he was a Christian, even though he didn’t believe a single key doctrine of Christianity. That, however, cannot be construed as the teaching of Christianity. What is important here is not what flawed, imperfect, people who called themselves Christians did. What is important is what was originally taught, what the Bible actually says about it.
This claim ignores the fact that when bible passages were used to argue for slavery or justify mistreatment of blacks that these passages were quoted out of context, distorted or twisted to fit the purposes of the individual. Charles Manson used the bible to justify his murders. Can we conclude that Jesus would have condoned them? Of course not. He also claimed that the Beatles “White Album” spoke of the coming race war and was directed at his “Family” who were to instigate it. This is just a really bad argument.
3. This argument ignores the other side of the coin. I have written about this already in comment #91 above. I encourage you to read what I wrote there. While it is true that some Christians have been on the side of slavery and racial prejudice, your comment ignores the fact that many Christians have been on the side of fighting for racial equality. In fact, virtually every movement of racial equality has been instigated and led by Christians! William Wilberforce, Martin Luther King Jr. and Nelson Mandela were all Christians. If you want to look at the time period in US history that you bring up, you should note that virtually all the instrumental abolitionists in the North were staunch Christians, including Harriet Beecher Stowe (who write Uncle Tom’s Cabin), Abraham Lincoln, John Quincy Adams, John Brown, Henry Clay Bruce, and Fredrick Douglass. Their deep convictions about the injustice of Slavery stemmed from their Christian beliefs. Christian belief was at the very core of anti-slavery activism. In fact, it can be very convincingly argued that Christianity was the driving force that abolished slavery. Slavery, far from being a Western Christian invention, it was culturally ubiquitous, and it was only the Christian west that abolished it. For further reading on this subject, I suggest: http://nationalhumanitiescenter.org/tserve/nineteen/nkeyinfo/amabrel.htm (this article is from a secular university professor)
4. The culture someone was born into was a much better indicator of how they felt about slavery than what religious views they held. There were certainly Christians on both sides of the slavery issue. Therefore, trying to show that Christianity promoted or led to slavery is a flawed approach. It would be very difficult to predict if a person during the time of the Civil War would be pro or anti-slavery simply by asking if they professed to be a Christian. Rather, if you asked where they lived and what their culture was, that would be a much better predictor.
This is like trying to argue that Christianity teaches people to like the Dallas Cowboys because you met 5 Christians in Dallas who were all Cowboys fans. People in Dallas tend to be Cowboys fans. The fact that they were also Christians doesn’t imply a correlation. If you interviewed people in Pittsburgh you would find Christians who root for the Stealers. People in grew up in the South during the Civil War tended to believe slavery was just and not contradictory to Christianity. People in the North felt otherwise. It’s not a matter of the bible changing but of people using their cultural paradigm to view the bible. We tend to twist what we read to align with our way of thinking. It’s a proven condition of the human psyche.
You then claim that because some people who called themselves Christians murdered blacks, the church is declining. You are simply incorrect that the church is declining. Christianity is still the fastest growing religion in the world, with 25,000,000 new converts every year according to the CIA World Fact book. Christianity is leaping forward in communist countries, like China and North Korea. By many reports over 10,000 people a day in China become Christians. It is true that in America fewer people call themselves Christians. However, it has been shown that the numbers of people who actually attest to believing the basic tenants of Christianity is actually on the increase. Thus, one can say that Christianity is actually on the rise, even in America. (source)
On to your next point: you claim that men wrote the bible (not God) and men are fallible, therefore the bible is “all fabricated”. There are many problems with this argument. One is that it commits the logical fallacy of “False Dichotomy”. Why must it be either/or? Why must it be written by God or written by men? Is it not at least theoretically possible for it to be written by both men and God? This in fact, is the claim of Christianity. Christianity claims that God gave the words to men who wrote it down. Your point, that it was men whose hands moved pens that actually wrote, doesn’t do anything to refute the Christian position. You don’t even have to believe this. It’s actually not even necessarily to believe this for you to believe it’s a factual account. But regardless, you haven’t provided any reason why this couldn’t be possible.
Secondly, your point also commits the fallacy called Non-Sequitur. It simply doesn’t follow logically that if fallible men wrote the bible it must, necessarily, be “all fabricated”. You can’t presume error is certain simply because error is possible. The conclusion simply doesn’t follow from the premises. Fallible men wrote many books you accept as factual. Fallible men wrote science textbooks. Fallible men wrote historical accounts of the world. For example, why do you accept the truthfulness of the existence of the Roman Empire or of Alexander the Great or Julius Caesar? Virtually all our knowledge of ancient history is composed of documents with less valid textual criticism than the bible. I urge you to read a blog article I wrote on this subject. In order to make an objective assessment of the evidence you need to consider this: http://missionarybrewer.wordpress.com/2013/07/08/can-the-new-testament-really-be-trusted/
This is just an example of the logical fallacy called “Special Pleading”. You are requiring something of the bible that you do not require of other eyewitness accounts of history. It’s a double standard.
In fact, taken at face value your objection is self-refuting. If everything man produces is flawed and can’t be trusted, then what about your very claim, itself? By that standard, can we trust the basic premise, “Everything man produces is flawed and can’t be trusted”? The operating premise can’t satisfy its own conditions for truthfulness.
I don’t even need the bible to be written by God in order to use it to demonstrate that Jesus was who he claimed to be. Written by men is just fine. You are correct that it is a collection of writings of men. It’s a collection of eyewitness accounts that tell the same story through different perspectives. It reads very much like how eyewitness testimony reads. What you have not provided is any reason that multiple eyewitness testimony that corroborates the occurrences of a set of events should be discarded and assumed to be fabricated. What counter evidence is there that would give you reason to reject the eyewitness accounts? It is not objective to reject multiple eyewitness accounts testifying that something occurred with no counter testimony to refute it. This isn’t allowed in a court of law and it’s bad historical methodology. Don’t commit the fallacy of Special Pleading.
Another reason this objection doesn’t hold water is that you claim that men wrote, rewrote, and rewrote it, implying that the version we have today has been substantially changed from the original. Here you are simply ignorant of facts with regard to the textual scholarship of the New Testament. You are confusing translation with transmission. Transmission is like the game of Telephone, where one person whispers something in someone’s ear and they pass it on to the next person, and to the next, until the last person repeats it and it sounds nothing like the original. However, that is NOT what happened with the bible. The bible is translated not transmitted. Whenever a translation is made of the bible it is done from the oldest available manuscripts, never from something that has already been translated. There is no adding of translation error. Translations are done from the Greek and Hebrew manuscripts. There is only one step. Here is a good short video on this subject from Greg Koukl. In fact, as time goes on our manuscript evidence continues to grow, making the case for the trustworthiness of the New Testament stronger all the time. Another good short clip on this here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEUqlgM-v-E and another one here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaAWj9yv6DY
Lastly, you claim that Jesus was only a good man and not the Son of God. You seem to conclude this from the fact that “he couldn’t save his own life”. But, that’s hardly evidence at all, since he claimed his very mission REQUIRED that he die. His mission was to die. It is certainly true that he didn’t save his own life, but that does not at all prove he COULDN’T save his own life. The eyewitness accounts say that he was able to rise from the dead. If that’s true, then I think your point about him dying is kind of moot.
You conclude that Jesus was a good man. Based on what do you say this? Why do you accept the eyewitness testimony that Jesus was a good man but deny the eyewitness testimony that he was God and rose from the dead? Special Pleading again.
Here’s the problem you have. The eyewitness accounts tell us Jesus claimed to be the Son of God. He was either is who he claimed to be (the Son of God), an imposter (a liar) or he was completely crazy. If he is a liar or crazy then there is no reason to hold him in any positive light. In that event, he misled thousands of people and caused the death of most of his followers for no reason other than to elevate his ego. What you can’t do is hold him as a good man. He simply didn’t leave that option open to you. He didn’t intend to.
Fortunately, we aren’t just left without clues as to which option to pick with it comes to Jesus (liar, lunatic, or Lord). Unlike other religions, Christianity rises and falls with a truth claim. Christianity lives or dies on the claim that Jesus literally, historically and actually rose from the dead. If this didn’t actually happen as a real historical event, then the whole thing is bogus. But if it did happen, then you can’t ignore his claim to be the Son of God and walk away concluding he was just a good man. If this event is true, then we must look at what Jesus claimed and take him seriously. No other religion gives such a truth test. Christianity is unique in this way. So, it is very important to determine what the historical evidence has to say on this question. As a starting point, I encourage you to read this blog article I wrote on answering this question: http://missionarybrewer.wordpress.com/2013/01/31/why-believe-in-christianity-over-other-religions/
Thanks again for the discussion. I hope that you will take what I have said as an attempt to help and provide you some additional things to consider. I hope you will look into these points and perhaps we can discuss more in the future.
Jake
December 8, 2014 at 1:37 am
The truth written here worth reading and reading again! I’m blessed
December 10, 2014 at 2:19 am
Hey Jake,I would like to ask you a question because you seem like someone intelligent that know’s God’s word better than I do.I’m a true Christian as well and I believe it’s a relationship too.It’s just that I got worried about something I read on the internet.Somebody on this website called answering-christianity.com said that the Bible says Christianity is a religion.So they put James 1:25-27 and 1Timothy 5:3-5 on the web page to try to use the Bible against Christianity.I Love Jesus and Our relationship is Awesome but what about James 1:25-27 and 1Timothy 5:3-5.I feel like maybe you might understand it more than I do and help me out by explaining it.I love you brother keep shining bright for Jesus!
Josh
December 12, 2014 at 12:45 pm
Josh,
Thanks for the comment. That is a good question about James 1:25-26 and 1 Tim 5:3-5. These verses are certainly not the only times in the New testament that we are called to perform good works. I have written some in response to this very question already. I would suggest reading my response to Jay in comment #99 above. I directly discussed the James passage in that response.
It is important to keep in mind that whether a person agrees that Christianity is not a religion or not is totally dependent on how one defines the word “religion”. The web site you linked is defining the word differently than I am. That is certainly fair. The word religion is a complex word that carries a vast variety of different meanings and connotations for different people. That is why I was so clear in defining how I was using the word in this blog. As I have already mentioned in comment #’s 48 and 78, even the dictionary definitions for the word vary drastically. Patrick McNamara once said, “Try to define religion and you invite an argument.”
It is true that Christians often obey a moral code and observe rituals. However, these things are not central to what it means to be Christian. It is certainly possible to be a Christian without any of these things. That would be like saying that baseball games must involve beer, peanuts, hot dogs and cracker jacks. It is true that frequently these things accompany baseball games. It has become tradition for people to partake of these things while enjoying a baseball game, but they are not inherently part of the game, itself. You can certainly play baseball without them. It would still be baseball.
This is what differentiates Christianity from the other religious faiths. It doesn’t matter that Christians frequently perform ritualistic observance or good works. The point is that Christianity is not these things, in its essence. It stands apart from them. The thief on the cross was saved without turning over of a new leaf, no new moral code, and no observance of the rituals of baptism or communion. He simply professed faith in Jesus and was saved. He became a Christian without any of the other “devotional or religious observances”. This is what C.S. Lewis described as “Mere Christianity”. When you take away everything else, Christianity is simply faith and trust in the person and work of Jesus Christ alone for your salvation. Everything else is just dressing. It is still all good stuff. I love beer, hot dogs and peanuts with baseball. It is hard for me to imagine going to a game and not having them. But, regardless, they aren’t baseball.
Other religious faiths are different than this. If you take away moral works from Buddhism you no longer have Buddhism. That is because all of Buddhism is based on what you do. If you take away works from Islam, you can’t be Muslim. Being a Muslim is defined by what you do, not what you believe. In the other religious faiths, rituals and observances are not the beer that accompanies the game; they’re like the baseball bat. Without them, it isn’t baseball.
It is true that Christianity teaches much about what we are to do, and we shouldn’t shy away from that fact. I don’t think I have done so in my blog. Consider what I say in comment #’s 41, 78 and 99. I have never argued that Christians, themselves, have been free from religious practices. This is, of course, not true. Certainly all of us, to some degree, practice religion (in both good ways and bad ways). I even go as far as condemning many of the common Christian ways of adding religion in my blog. My point has always been that, unlike all other faiths, Christianity is unique in that it is not religious in its nature, in its very essence. Jesus didn’t teach that religious observance was required to be saved.
I would suggest reading my comment # 99, where I articulated how moral actions and works for a Christian are not the same as those for the world’s religions.
Thanks again for the question. That site you linked to has got some very incorrect ideas on it. Be very careful in taking much of what is said there about Christianity at face value. I would be happy to offer a refutation of any point made on that site that you are struggling with.
God bless,
Jake
December 25, 2014 at 9:32 am
I appreciate you so much for this message it has really opened my eyes to the truth the more and have strengthened my faith. Thanks again and God bless
January 4, 2015 at 11:10 am
I loved everything you said ,
GLORY to GOD You answered every
question I had about religion , I’m so glad to have the opportunity to say Thank you and GOD bless you.
January 13, 2015 at 8:30 am
Good Morning Jake,
Can you please provide me with an email address so that I can provide you with details of our request to quote Why Christianity is NOT a Religion in a book to be published by the United Church of Canada publishing house. I would appreciate your contacting me at dream@wishart.net.
Thanks,
Laurie
January 14, 2015 at 7:53 am
About 144 and 145. Where in the bible does JESUS say that He is the son of God? Like what verse? Also this is a really cool page.
Thanks,
~Rebecca
January 14, 2015 at 11:16 pm
Rebecca,
Thanks for the comment and question. To answer your question, Jesus directly claims the specific title “Son of God” for Himself in John 5:25, 10:36, 11:4, 17:1, Mark 14:61-62 and Matthew 11:27. Additionally, in John 8:58-59 Jesus claims to have existed before Abraham and to be the God who spoke with Moses in the burning bush (by claiming the title for God “I Am”). In addition to directly claiming this Himself, He also allowed others to call Him the Son of God (or God) in the following places: Matthew 4:3-7, 16:15-17, John 1:1, 18, 49-50, 3:16-18, 11:25-27, 20:28, and 31. In Luke 3:21-22 God the Father calls Jesus His Son in a voice from heaven. This occurs again in Matthew 17:5. I could go on. There are many more. These are just a few examples from the Gospels. There are countless others in the rest of the New Testament. It’s hard to read very much of the New Testament without seeing Jesus called the Son of God. It’s everywhere. Hopefully that is helpful.
Jake
January 26, 2015 at 12:52 pm
14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. – James 2:14-26
Acts 2:38 “Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. – Mark 16:16
If you truly believe and have faith, your faith will produce works.
January 27, 2015 at 4:11 pm
Rames,
Thank you for taking the time to comment. I completely agree that if you truly believe and have faith, your faith will produce works. That is what I have repeatedly said here (see my comment #s 22, 41, 50, 61, 99, 139, and 148 above). Faith that does not result in works was never faith at all to begin with. However, it is not our works that gain us favor, mercy, grace or love from God. This is why Christianity is so different.
With regard to your remark about baptism (ALL CAPS text in your comment), see my comment #95 above as well as comment #48 on my page “How to have a Relationship with God“. I have already addressed what I believe the Scripture clearly teaches on that subject.
February 11, 2015 at 3:23 pm
Thank God !!!! It is so nice to see others believe the way I do , I am 41 yrs old and accepted Jesus Christ as my Lord and Saviour in my teen years. Parents did not take me to church much but through a series of bad circumstances , and bad choices God’s saving grace found me and rescued me. I have been to Baptist , methodist, non denominational churches on and off through the years and just felt like something was missing or just was not setting right with my spirit and have even backslid a couple of times but always came back to Jesus because he has been in my heart since I first found him or really him me . Regardless I am eternally greatful to him and our Father God in Heaven. The main point I want to make is I have learned through God’s word ,the Holy Spirit, life experiences , and even from some great men of God’s teachings of Gods word and yes there are or have been some out there in this world what true Christianity is , A relationship with God through Jesus Christ NOT man made religion !!!! And in this belief my spirit is now at peace because I know , that I know , that I know , There is only one true God and one way to heaven through belief in his only begotten son Jesus Christ and him dying on the cross to pay for our sins.The bible IS God’s word , it is all fact !!!not some fact and some fiction as some choose to believe . I believe just as Jesus told Satan in the wilderness when he was being tempted that ” ” man does not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God ! ” If more people would just humble themselves and pray and really seek God on their own by reading his word and asking him to give them understanding and discernment they will find the truth just like we have and the truth will set them free . And whoever the Son has freed is free indeed. God guides us into all truth by Holy spirit for those who truely believe and seek him and I am living witness of this truth and am so grateful for my savior Jesus Christ and all he has done for me !
February 11, 2015 at 4:47 pm
Karrie Pearce,
I can’t believe you said the Bible is all facts — although they are but only after being spirit taught (Isaiah 28:9-10) how to put them together — in the sense that one can just read it and understand it, but that’s not the topic so I will not go into that.
Christianity does not, DOES NOT teach salvation in believing Jesus was and his blood has a saved us, [but it is written in the writings not said to be his words]. He said in John 14:12 , “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father” which I will now paraphrase because of the words in 14:15, “If ye love me, keep my commandments).”
Some of Jesus’ commandments are:
1) Don’t attempt to serve god and mammon (Matthew 6:24-34).
2) Forsake everything the world instructs us to depend on (Matthew 19:29).
3) After becoming born again become a nomad (John 3:8).
4) Go into all the world and teach others what spirit has caused you to observe (Matthew 28:19-20).
In following only those commandments we see we have a work to do which cause the meaning of John 14:12 to say, anyone born again who reaches spiritual adulthood and keep my commandments the spirit will endow then with the “dominion abilities” (Genesis 1:28 & 6:4) he demonstrated.
How do people not see Jesus has taught what the other religions taught, it requires work to obtain salvation, after reading those 4 commandments above, I would like to know.
February 11, 2015 at 7:30 pm
ElijahAlexanderjr,
Thanks for commenting. The clear answer to your question is in the very blog post you are commenting on. Did you read it? I just ask because that is exactly the question I spent time answering above.
I’m afraid that your interpretation of Jesus’ commandments is incomplete and inaccurate. It is true that Jesus taught us to do many things. However, he never said that they save us. Let’s walk through your list:
1) Don’t attempt to serve god and mammon (Matthew 6:24-34).
It is certainly true that you cannot serve both God and money. However this doesn’t at all imply that your serving of God is what earns you salvation. Rather, it is your salvation that enables you to serve God (instead of money).
2) Forsake everything the world instructs us to depend on (Matthew 19:29).
This passage is simply Jesus promising to reward those who have left family and lands behind for His sake. It doesn’t say anything about your salvation requiring you to do so. Indeed it implies the opposite. If salvation is only given to those who abandon all family and land, why then does Jesus promise additional reward to those who do so? This is clearly teaching that there is a special, additional, reward for those who are called to forsake these things for Jesus’ sake.
3) After becoming born again become a nomad (John 3:8).
This is a complete misunderstanding of the meaning of this passage. It has nothing to do with believers roaming as nomads. You need to read the whole 3rd chapter of John to understand Jesus’ point here. Jesus is speaking to Nicodemus about how one is born again. He explains that everyone has natural birth (is born of water) but in order to be saved you must also have a spiritual birth (be born of spirit). Jesus’ point in verse 8 is that the Spirit moves unpredictably, like the wind blows. In fact the same Greek word is used for wind as spirit. We don’t know whom the Spirit is calling and drawing. One person is enabled to see and understand while another cannot. The working of the Holy Spirit in salvation is further expounded upon by Jesus himself in John 6:44 and 14:16-17 and by the Apostle Paul in 1 Cor 2:14-16.
4) Go into all the world and teach others what spirit has caused you to observe (Matthew 28:19-20).
Again, this is something Christians are called to do (as a result of salvation), but nowhere does Jesus say that your salvation depends on you doing so. The thief on the cross did none of these things you mention, yet Jesus said he would be with Him in Paradise (Luke 24:43). All you have done is cite incidents where Jesus told his disciples to do things. I have never argued that Jesus doesn’t tell us to do things. I have said, rather, that our salvation is NOT conditional upon our performance of these tasks. You have provided no reference where Jesus said it was.
You said, “In following only those commandments we see we have a work to do which cause the meaning of John 14:12 to say, anyone born again who reaches spiritual adulthood and keep my commandments the spirit will endow then with the “dominion abilities” (Genesis 1:28 & 6:4) he demonstrated.”
This is an interesting comment. Actually what Jesus says in John 14:12 is “Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever BELIEVES in me will also do the works that I do…” Notice Jesus hinges the works on the belief. The ability to do works is dependent on the belief: whoever believes…will do. This is exactly the point I make in what I have written here. If you believe in Jesus Christ and have a saving FAITH in Him, you will receive the Holy Spirit who provides you with both the desire to serve Him and the ability to do so. This service is an outpouring of your salvation. It is the natural and inevitable result of it. However, in no way is it the cause of it. You have put the cart before the horse. Ironically, the passage you quote (John 14:12) clearly illustrates this. With regard to your comment about John 14:15, I have already addressed this in comment #22 above.
If you think you can earn your way into God’s good graces, you have completely missed the boat. You have stumbled on the same stumbling stone as the Pharisees. It’s all about the cross and what Jesus did on your behalf there. Otherwise, why would he need to die? What exactly did Jesus accomplish for you if you have to earn your way to God?
If you want to only look at Jesus’ words consider that He taught in John 15: 4 “apart from me you can do nothing”. These works you speak of cannot be done without first having Jesus Christ. This means salvation precedes works. Also consider where Jesus says . . .
Who has eternal life? Whoever hears and believes. Those are Jesus’ words (since you seem to only accept His words). See also Luke 5:20, Luke 18:10-14, and John 6:28-29.
I have a question for you, ElijahAlexanderjr; why do you only accept the words of Jesus and not those who He taught and left behind with the authority to teach us? You reference Jesus’ command to His disciples to teach us all that he commanded them (Matthew 28:19-20) but then deny those very teachings? Jesus commanded Peter to “feed my sheep” (in John 21:15-17), yet you do not accept his food to you? Paul was personally chosen by Jesus and commissioned to spread the gospel (Acts 9:1-9, 15), yet you deny the gospel he taught? This makes no sense to me.
Hopefully this is helpful. God bless,
Jake
February 12, 2015 at 2:17 pm
Jake,
Yes, I read the topic and most of the posts prior to my first post and I saw the misinterpretation of the Bible of the blog, that’s why I posted earlier.
If my interpretation is inaccurate it is because of a spirit’s guidance misled me. After my new conception — the unseen spiritual birth must follow the natural birth standard (Romans 1:20) — I began to read the Bible as a book I new nothing about, although I had been brought up strict Baptist, and whenI prayed to go to seminary spirit told me “you don’t need to go to seminary, I’ve already taught you.” I didn’t understand that but accepted it because everything spirit instructed me to do always came out in my best interest. Then I saw Isaiah 28:9-12 saying “he” can only teach us once we are drawn from the milk [teach ints of man] and cleaned from the breast [teachers of religion] as I ob served how I began to see the Bible as a intellectual puzzle — and when I studied other scriptures I saw the same — and began to relate like things to like things to understand. It works, I’ve found.
As I look at your responses to my post I see that you don’t appear to have had spirit to teach you. Those responses are what I would have said prior to my 19786 New Birth after almost 3 years of gestating in the church and on the job. My birthday was when I chose to reject an almost a $300 promotion to follow what spirit was teaching me, “follow the life and teachings of Jesus and leave all attachments.” It’s because I have been a nomad for well over 30 years wondering over North America’s Canada, Mexico and Belize out of the US until 1980 and over 44 US states, most twice or more, until late 2012 when I was instructed to remain in Washington, DC indefinitely and took the retirement from the 15 years I worked prior to my new birth.
A disciple and/or brother of Jesus, James, in his writings (2:18-26) tells us “18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
…
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.” Since he walked with Jesus for 3 years he should know first hand that Christians have to work the work of faith. Furthermore, look at why we are called Christians, Acts 11:19-26, the saved out of Israel were wandering messengers like Jesus had been so you are telling me there is no works for the saved? Jesus said it require works when he gave the parable of “the paymaster” in Matthew 20:1-16, — it’s about the end of the time, out time — there landowner goes out early in the morning and through the day, even the eleventh hour, and got workers and paid them last first. They are paid for working and the pay is the rapture. The last one paid is the Alpha and Omega, the first to enter the vineyard [live the message] and last raptured after replenishing the earth for the Revelation 21 civilization without b odd recognition or sun.
I don’t such a vision of what the Bible”s message was given in error. So, Jake, think on these things and if you want to know more about them Google search “Elijah NatureBoy” and you’ll find much more from me.
February 13, 2015 at 2:10 pm
Elijah,
Thank you for responding. In think in some ways we have much in common, as I have also not been to any formal seminary training. I agree with you that the Holy Spirit teaches us many things through the reading of the word. That is not to say that our understanding of Scripture is infallible and perfect just because we have the Holy Spirit. None of us will ever have a perfect knowledge of God in this life. This is why I think your comment, “If my interpretation is inaccurate it is because of a spirit’s guidance misled me”, is not true. Many people who love God, who have the Holy Spirit and who read the bible regularly are mistaken about a great many points it teaches on. Also, to be wrong about a point in Scripture does not at all imply you don’t have the Holy Spirit. There are many examples in the bible of followers of Jesus being wrong and sinning after they receive the Holy Spirit (e.g. Acts 10, 11, 12:15, 15:1, 7, 36-41 and Gal 2:11-13).
I am certain that I am wrong about some things myself. If I knew what they were, I would certainly believe differently. But, I do not. That is why I need (and we all need) other Godly brothers and sisters to teach us. This is an continual theme and clear pattern established in all of Scripture (e.g. Ps 141:5, Prov 4:10-11, 13:10, 15:22, 17:10, 18:1-2, 15, 28:26, Eph 4:1-16, 1 Cor 12:25-27, Gal 6:1-2, 1 Tim 2:1-2, 4:11, Tit 2:6-8,15, 1 Pet 5:8). To claim you have no need for this is foolish and in opposition to the clear teaching of the bible. You and I may not need to go to seminary, but that doesn’t mean we don’t have things we need to learn and areas we need to grow. Some of us DO need to go to seminary. We need to be humble and teachable so that those who are called to study deeper can teach us.
I find it ironic that if your idea were correct (that we need no man to teach us, only the Holy Spirit) then your actions here of commenting and trying to correct me (and others) actually contradict your own thinking. If I need no one to teach me, and the Holy Spirit is able to teach me everything I need to learn perfectly, then why do I need you to correct me? Couldn’t I simply say the same thing you did, “if my interpretation is inaccurate it is because of a spirit’s guidance misled me”? That’s rubbish.
We all have blind spots and this is why God puts together the body of Christ: so that others can help us to see things we miss and to point out where we are in error. The bible teaches that God puts together each body of Christ (each church) to compliment people’s gifting, strengths and weaknesses (1 Cor 12). We were never intended to live the Christian life alone, in a vacuum, separated from other believers. This is one reason I strongly disagree with your idea that all followers of Jesus are to be nomads.
This idea is taught nowhere in scripture. In fact, the clear pattern set in the New Testament is that a traveling minister (like Paul) would establish a church in a city and appoint and train local Elders. These men would govern the local body of local believers, who stayed there. Most of the New Testament is Paul (and others) writing letters to established churches at specific locations. Jesus, Himself, addresses specific churches at set places in the book of Revelation. These were not nomads. They were working citizens with jobs living and worshiping in their communities, striving to live for Jesus and to tell their neighbors about Him. For one example of this you can look at Lydia (a seller of purple goods) in Acts 16.
If the clear teaching of Scripture is that believers need to be in community, correcting and teaching each other, carrying each other’s burdens, having all things in common, joining together regularly in prayer, breaking bread, and in partaking of communion (as stated in Ecc 4:9-12, Acts 2:45-47, Gal 6:1-2, Col 3:16, and Prov 27:17), how can we fulfill this if we all are wandering from place to place with no established relationships? If all Christians are called to be nomads and to not have any permanent home, why then does it say that the early church met in their homes (Acts 2:45)? Why did Paul need to travel back to Jerusalem at the end of his 3 missionary journeys to see the church there? Shouldn’t they all have scattered and not remained in the birth city of Christianity?
It is certainly possible that God told you, specifically, to live a nomadic lifestyle. That’s fine. That’s between you and God. He did that with some people in the bible (e.g. John the Baptist, Paul and even Jesus). However, when you start telling others that they are wrong and that they MUST do the same to be saved, you are adding to Scripture and tacking on requirements that God never said. This is religion and it’s very ugly. You will have to answer for this someday if you are teaching people this. Indeed, there are many more examples of people in the bible who God did NOT call to be nomads. Peter, James, and John all stayed in Jerusalem. In fact, all the Apostles remained when the rest of the church scattered due to the persecution led by Saul (Acts 8:1). Peter was married and had a family (Matt 8:14, 1 Cor 9:5).
I think you are confusing God’s specific instruction to you, personally, with mandates for everyone. God may have told you to not go to seminary. He told me the same. However, this doesn’t mean that this instruction is the same for everyone. He tells some people to go to seminary . . . and He tells the rest of us to be teachable. God may have told you to be a nomad. However, he tells many more people to stay in the same place and to invest in the lives of their family, friends, associates, and neighbors. He tells many to get jobs and glorify Him through their work (Col 3:23). How could ministers be supported and missionaries paid if not for faithful believers working and giving to support them? There is clear evidence this was going on in the first churches (2 Cor 8:1-2, 9:9-13, 11:8, 1 Tim 5:17-18, 3 John 1:8).
God tells many people to never move anywhere. To claim otherwise is an arrogant presumption that your way is the only way and a denial of the Holy Spirit’s individual work in other’s lives. It is also outright refuted in Scripture. You allow for the Spirit to speak freely in your own life, clearly. Do not deny others the same freedom you enjoy.
It is common for people who want to teach that works are required for salvation to pluck out passages from James. It is true that James says, “faith without works is dead” (James 2:17). However, this passage must be interrupted in a way that is consistent with the teaching throughout the rest of Scripture. You must reconcile this passage with the one where Paul these things . . .
How then can we reconcile these passages? Are they contradicting? No. They only are if you interpret James the way you have. However, James helps us with the correct interpretation in the verse you quoted . . .
Notice James’ reply above…he will demonstrate his faith by his works. He will show us his faith by his works. This clearly shows that his faith precedes his works. The works are evidence of the faith. How does one know they have faith? Their works are evidence of it. This echoes Jesus’ remarks in Matt 7:16. Notice what James doesn’t say…I will show you my works in place of faith. He doesn’t say I will earn it with my works. James goes on to point out that it was Abraham’s faith, demonstrated by his works, which saved him. Indeed, his faith was not even “faith” without the works. If he was not willing to perform the action of sacrificing Isaac, then his faith was non-existent. It wasn’t really faith. Abraham’s true faith resulted in his action of obedience. James’ point here is that true faith is always tied with action. One cannot have saving faith in Jesus and produce no fruit. If all you did is say a prayer and there was no change in your life, you aren’t saved. If you say you have faith but no works, then your faith is dead. Such a reading of this passage in James harmonizes it with the rest of the teaching on salvation in the bible.
I have never said otherwise in any of my writing. In fact I have repeatedly sated this (see my comment #s 22, 41, 50, 61, 99, 139, and 148 above). However this CANNOT be taken to mean that it is our works that earn it for us. The works are always a RESULT of the faith. They are not the cause and they are not what God looks to when He calls us righteous. He looks to the works of Jesus on the cross in our place (2 Cor 5:21). True faith and repentance is what allows us to receive the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit changes us, enabling us to perform works. These works flow from our faith and give testimony to it. But they are not what qualify us or justify us before God.
Jake
February 22, 2015 at 9:37 am
I’m so humbled to have incidentally come across this teaching. I always heard pastors teaching us that we should not be religious but I honestly could not draw a distinction between the two. These teachings left me more confused. I once sent an email to Pastor Jimmy Swaggart but stil couldn’t understand. I realy thank God.
So now is tithing a religious practice or what? Those activities I’m expected to carry out as a christian such as sowing money seeds for a financial breakthrough – are they religious practices?
Thank you, looking forward to hear frm you. Be blessed. Anita….Botswana
February 23, 2015 at 3:32 pm
Anita,
Thanks for writing. I think you may have misunderstood what I was saying. I want to clarify that I am not saying that people shouldn’t be religious. I am saying that the faith of Christianity is not religious in its nature. That may be a subtle difference, but it is an important one.
Sometimes it cam be beneficial to self-apply some religion. I am religious about bathing, eating, changing cloths, brushing my teeth, etc. These are practices I know that I need to force myself to do regularly regardless of whether I feel like it or not. I do the same thing with reading the bible and going to church. I should always desire to do these things, but sometimes I don’t. However, I still do them even when I don’t feel like it because I know they are good for me and I need them regardless. That’s a little self-applied religion.
The problem comes when people start saying these things are necessary and required in order for you to be a Christian or to be saved. Whenever a person adds requirements to what Jesus said and starts demanding others fulfill them (in order to be right with God), that is when we have a problem. A good way to think about it is that self-applied religion can be helpful but never when it is applied to someone else.
For more on this idea please read my comments # 99 & 148 above. I spent a good deal of time in these comments answering the questions you raise about the bible passages that call us to do good works. To sum up succinctly: the difference between Christianity and other religions is not that that Christianity doesn’t call us to do things and other faiths do…it is the REASON we are called to do things. In other religions the reason is gain favor from God. You are to earn this favor by the works you do. In Christianity it is totally reversed. Everything that needs to be done in order for us to gain favor and forgiveness from God was done on the cross by Jesus. We can add nothing to it by anything we do. We are gifted favor from God as a result of Jesus’ works, not ours. Those who accept Jesus’ sacrifice in place of their sin receive the Holy Spirit. They Holy Spirit gradually changes their heart causing them to have new desires to do good works. As a result, the Christian does good works, not because we must do so, but because we want to do so out of love and thankfulness to a God who saved us. Our works are a means of worship, praise and thankfulness to Him. They are not requirements that earn us favor or righteousness.
With regard to your question about tithing, please read my comment # 55 above where I addressed that question. Also, tithing is not “sowing money seeds for a financial breakthrough”. That is is horrible, horrible prosperity nonsense. You need to stop listening and turn off whoever you heard that one from. That kind of thinking is poison and death to a cross-centered mindset.
God bless,
Jake
March 12, 2015 at 9:48 am
Confusion in the Church
Numerous people believe in God, attend church, and are convinced that they will someday go to heaven. But of these, far too many are misinformed about salvation.
Some believe that a person’s eternal destiny depends solely on how much good he accomplishes in his lifetime. Others accept that Jesus died for us but think we have to contribute toward salvation through works. Both views are incorrect.
The Word of God teaches that we are saved only through a personal faith in Christ (Eph. 2:8-9). What He did – namely, living a perfect life and dying for our sins is what makes us right with God. When we receive Jesus as our Savior, His completed work is credited to our account. Our sin debt is paid by His blood, and His righteousness is applied to us. Remember, we’re saved not by what we do but by whom we trust. We can’t add to or take away from Christ’s finished work on the cross (John 19:30; Acts 4:12).
Another common area of confusion involves the erroneous idea that once saved, we must do certain works for God to keep loving us. Attending church, reading the Bible, and praying are important practices for God’s children, but His love does not hinge on our actions. Scripture is clear that love is our heavenly Father’s nature (1 John 4 :8).
It’s essential that faith be grounded in biblical truth. Receiving forgiveness of our sins, belonging to God’s family, and dwelling with Him forever depend on it. Do your beliefs agree with Scripture?
Read 1 John 5:12-13
March 22, 2015 at 4:24 pm
May God continue to bless you because you take your time out to justify and find the root to people’s problems. Also not only because of that but in general.
April 20, 2015 at 4:18 pm
Sir, you article was fantastic! Is there anyway I get in contact with you via internet? I need some advice and tips concerning defending the believe that Christianity is a relationship with Christ?
April 21, 2015 at 10:57 am
All is Vanity King Solomon said. JESUS SAID NOT TO CAST PEARLS IN FRONT OF SWINE.
It’s important to understand the wisdom of man is but foolishness to The Lord; therefore, it Scripture explains why?
Spiritual matters are discerned spiritually and philosophy is figured by some form of logic.
Scripture is Interpreted by The Interpreter. The minute it becomes obvious your discussions are with someone who thinks they can see God through reasoning, you are engaging for what reason, other than vanity?
Nicodemus came to Jesus for an answer to his questions. And Nicodemus reasoned them as would any man via logic
How can I go back in my mother’s womb and be born again.
Jesus put Nicodemus on a path of Revelation by uncovering would Nicodemus could not see with his eyes wide open and his faculties sharp as a razor.
He revealed to Nicodemus unless you are reborn spiritually , you can not see the Kingdom of God.
Had Nicodemus wanted to philosophize and display their knowledge of Scripture, Jesus would have pointed out what was missing from their logic by supporting his answer with Scripture, dumbfounding and consterning them, why?
Because they, the priests who gave the message to the Jews actually didn’t know what only the Holy Spirit can reveal to one, they had left the Heart of the Scripture out. How could they do otherwise? Who can adequately describe what goes on in their hearts in words.
There isn’t enough vocabulary because once you describe your feelings, measure them weigh them with words that substitute for your feelings, something
the heart of it is often missing.
People who don’t believe after hearing the good news of Salvation and even attack the messenger, Jesus told his apostles to shake the dust from your sandals.
Debating such a person is a journey of vanity, Scripture is plain when it states, do not cast pearls in front of swine.
April 22, 2015 at 12:37 am
Fantastic
April 22, 2015 at 3:43 pm
Charles,
You are correct that Scripture is clear that we should not to cast pearls before swine. However, it isn’t very clear about who the “swine” are and aren’t. This is left up to our Spirit-guided judgment. I want you to know that I do take the passage from Matthew 7 (that you reference) to heart when I am considering who I will respond to and who I won’t. You don’t see the ones I choose to not engage, because I don’t post them.
However, I think it is interesting that the same passage you mention from Matthew 7 also contains the following instruction from Jesus . . . “Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you.” (Matt 7:1-2) I think this warning, spoken right before the words on casting pearls before swine, should be used to balance and influence how we apply the latter instruction. If I err, I would like to err on the side of judging others less and wasting some pearls. This seems prudent to me since personal repercussions are tied to the first one, not the second. Since I don’t know who will respond and who won’t, I like to give people the benefit of the doubt (at least initially). My general rule is that if a person is willing to continue discussions in a considerate and respectful manner, and appears to be genuinely interested in examining my perspective, I will continue to dialog with them. Whenever it becomes clear that they are unwilling to keep the discussion respectful or it is clear they have no interest is considering my perspective, I will end the dialog. This has so far been an effective criterion. I have yet to be “trampled underfoot”.
I don’t agree with you that it is always vanity to engage in a debate with someone who disagrees with the bible. I see many biblical examples of people doing this (e.g. Acts 7, 8:20-23, 17:2, 17, 18:4, 19, 19:8-9, 24:25, 2 Cor 5:11, Col 2:1-23, etc.). One great example is Paul debating with and reasoning with Governor Felix in Acts 24. He repeatedly does so over the course of two years. Paul continued to reason with him despite the fact that Felix’s motivation for continuing the discussion was that he hoped Paul would bribe him for his escape from prison. Not exactly pure motives. Was Paul being vain?
I also disagree with you that you should end discussions with someone who believes they can discover God through reason. God is reasonable. He created logic and reason. I firmly believe that an objective pursuit of reason will lead a person to God. The reason I believe in God is because He is the most reasonable answer to how and why we exist. I think there is also scriptural basis for it being our job to dismantle incorrect, foolish and illogical arguments against God.
Who knows, if you dismantle a bad argument it may lead someone to realize that they were wrong about God. God can use my (and your) words as part of His work to open someone’s eyes to the truth. Never discount how the Holy Spirit can use a loving, solid and logical defense of the Gospel message. Even if the person I am debating doesn’t change their mind, who knows how God may use what I wrote to help someone else who may be struggling with the same issue? This is another reason I sometime carry on these discussions. It might help someone else.
Thanks for the reminder of Matthew 7:6. I will continue to keep that in mind as I decide how best to respond to comments (or if I should respond).
God bless,
Jake
May 3, 2015 at 5:26 pm
Thank you so much brother!!! May God bless you!!!! Just recently, the good Lord found me and I’ve been speaking with him everyday and have been reading the good book to fully understand his teachings. However, I’ve been feeling like I’m walking on eggshells; trying to figure out what in today’s modern age is considered sinful or not and have been in constant fear angering the lord. I unknowingly was a victim of the misconceptions that you stated above and thanks to your sobering article, I now realize how I must look at my newly found faith.
Thank you kindly,
Michael.
May 6, 2015 at 5:05 am
Thank you much needed.
May 7, 2015 at 8:51 pm
So bold to quote scripture again and again….constantly uses MY bible to codemn MY church…..it’s almost laughable…..get behind me satan
May 8, 2015 at 3:37 pm
Catholic1,
I do not believe I have ever condemned your church, specifically. What I have written here is a critique of the Christian Church (capital C) in general (which includes both protestant and Catholic variations as well as every denomination, including my church). We have all been guilty of adding religion to the gospel (in one way or another). This is not an attack on your church. It was simply a reminder to all churches that Jesus hates it when we add religious requirements to salvation. I know there are many Catholics who would agree with that statement.
If you believe that I have said something that is not in line with what the bible says, or if you think that I have incorrectly quoted scripture, I would ask that you identify exactly where I did so. I think that is only fair. What is unfair (and disrespectful) is to accuse someone of this without providing any examples or scriptural support of your own. What I find “bold” is that you would accuse me of being “Satan” with no more justification than that what I said was “laughable”. What exactly do you find laughable and why? In what way have I gone against what is taught in the bible. I love the bible. It’s MY bible too. I read it every day, I know it pretty well. But, I am certainly open to be taught and to learn if I am in error. All I ask is that you demonstrate respect (and the same grace our Lord does) and kindly show me where you believe I am in error.
God bless,
Jake
May 12, 2015 at 9:26 am
Please define what is meant in James 1:26 and 1:27. I see James referring to religion , and religious, in the actions of being a true and committed follower of our Savior Why did he choose these words rather than others that might compliment your argument ?
May 12, 2015 at 10:05 am
Mike,
Thanks for the comment. I actually think what I have written here aligns perfectly with what is written by James in chapter 1 of his book. I didn’t really get into that in the blog post, but I have done so several times here in the comments above. Consider what I said in comments #99 and #148. Hopefully you will find your question adequately addressed there. Let me know if you still have a question after reading that.
God bless,
Jake
May 14, 2015 at 6:33 pm
I’d just like to say that God very much expects us to be perfect. It isn’t impossible it was a command Matthew 5:48, when a person becomes born again Jesus Christ comes into them and gives them power to be like Him and keeps them from sin. He gives them power over sin. In many places of the bible like Romans 6:1 we are instructed to not sin, so Christians do not sin. To God being sinless isn’t perfection. Perfection is holiness and being 100% like Jesus Christ. It isn’t impossible and there are people out there who are perfect in God’s eyes. Abraham, Noah, and Enoch were perfect, if they were we can be too. We are living in end times, rapture is about to happen people need to be prepared. The standard for Heaven is What people must meet. Holiness without which NO MAN shall see the Lord. I didn’t finish everything you read Jake McWhirter, but I just wanted to let you and others know. Also, drinking alchohol is a sin and we can only listen to true Christian music.
May 15, 2015 at 10:53 am
Angeldidi,
Thank you for the comment and opportunity to dialog on this issue. It is true that Jesus says that our goal is to be perfect as our Father is perfect in Matthew 5:8. However, this does not at all imply this is possible here on this earth. Jesus is explaining that the standard of holiness is indeed perfection. The point of his sermon in Matthew 5-6 is that we CAN’T do this! He takes the OT commandments and shows how much harder and more encompassing these commands actually are. It’s not just that we can’t commit adultery, anytime we look at someone with lust we are guilty of sinning in the same way. It’s not just that we can’t murder someone. Anytime we call someone a name or hate anyone we are guilty of the same type of sin. We have all done this. Jesus is trying to get you to see the very message you seem to be missing…that your efforts will NEVER achieve holiness. Perfection is way beyond what even the Pharisees thought it was (Matt 5:20). It is also way beyond what you think it is. It is unattainable for humans. Only JESUS could do this.
Are you seriously claiming that you never commit a single sin now that you believe in Jesus? So you are perfect now? Nothing phases you at all. You always love God with every fiber of your being in every moment with every thought and every action of your life? You always love everyone else more than you love yourself? You never have a single selfish thought? So you are never angry or impatient? You never lose your temper or act unkindly toward anyone? Sorry, but if you think this is true you are deluded. You have swallowed a huge lie of your own righteousness.
It doesn’t matter how small you think the sin is, it’s a sin against a completely holy and righteous God and it is deserving of hell for all eternity. The only reason you are allowed to continue living at all is by the gracious mercy of God and His unmerited forbearance. I highly encourage you to read this famous sermon on this subject from Johnathan Edwards. The only way any of us can be considered righteous before God is because Jesus’ righteousness has been substituted for our lack of righteousness. Jesus’ righteous becomes our righteousness (if we are His children). This is the only reason we are “perfect in God’s eyes”. It has absolutely nothing to do with our works. This is what the bible clearly teaches.
If Christians become perfect, why are none of the Apostles in the bible perfect? Certainly, you would think that if ANYONE was going to be “100% like Jesus Christ” the Apostles would have been able to do it. Paul told the brothers and sisters in Philippi that he “strained forward toward the goal” of perfection but that he did “not consider himself to have already obtained it” (Phil 3:7-14). Paul clearly still struggled with sin long after becoming a Christian. He wrote plainly about his struggle in Romans 7 (and this book was written towards the very end of his life).
Paul says that trouble is with him…that sin still living within him (WAY after his conversion) causes him to do what he hates. He even calls himself a SALVE to sin. That is certainly not “100% like Jesus Christ”. This seems pretty damning to your argument. It doesn’t stop there, either. Peter sinned. Paul has to rebuke him for living in hypocrisy and caving into what the legalists Judiaizers demanded. He stopped eating with Gentiles (Gal 2:11-13). Paul and Barnabas got in an argument about the fact that John Mark abandoned them on their first missionary Journey (Acts 15:36-41). Barnabas was led astray by the Judiazers (Gal 2:13) into “hypocrisy””.
You provide Old Testament examples of people you claimed were perfect, but they were clearly not! Have you ever read the OT? Abraham pimped out his wife to save his own neck…twice! He did this because he lost faith in God to protect him. Sarah laughed at God and doubted He would give her a son. Noah got drunk and passed out right after being saved from the flood. Since you claim drinking is a sin, what do you say of this? The OT is filled with examples of very real human people who make mistakes and sin just like us. Even David (the only person ever called “a man after God’s own heart”) committed murder and adultery. He was clearly far from perfect and certainly not “100% like Jesus”.
This should actually be a great encouragement to us. This people were considered righteous despite their clear and obvious sins. We don’t have to wonder how that could be. Paul answered it for us.
I could have quoted all of chapter 4 of Romans. Paul gives a lengthy explanation of why it was NOT Abraham’s works that made him righteous (“perfect”), but rather his faith. Paul explains that Abraham’s faith, alone, was CREDITED to him as righteousness. His faith was accepted as his righteousness. But why didn’t God look to Abraham’s works? Paul explains that it is only by faith in Jesus that this is possible.
In case there is any remaining confusion, Paul makes it even more clear . . .
It would seem to me that Paul is telling you that citing Abraham as an example of someone who obtained perfection and achieved righteousness through their actions is way off the mark. In fact, Paul is saying here that Abraham is an example of the exact opposite! He is an example (even the father of) all who gain righteousness by belief. I seriously encourage you to read the book of Romans. I think it would help clear up your confusion a lot.
Hopefully you will find this somewhat challenging and will pray over what I have written here and consider it carefully. It is of vital importance that you understand you will NEVER earn salvation and that you will NEVER get it based on your actions and perfection. If you fail to understand this you have no part of the gospel.
Jake
May 16, 2015 at 4:30 pm
Thanks so much for writing this!! It really helped me clear up some things, and the Holy Spirit convicted me, and showed some things I needed to fix with my relationship with God. I didn’t realize that even after you are saved you can’t please God by trying to be good. Instead I needed the Holy Spirit to guide me and gradually replace my sinful desires. I do have a question though. Before Jesus came to redeem us, how did people get to heaven? I know that God forgives sins in the Old Testament, but how could he let them into heaven if no penalty had been paid, without being unjust (which I know He isn’t)? I really appreciate your time and dedication and God bless!!
May 18, 2015 at 8:30 am
Hi Jake,
I found this page after seeing the following article:
http://www.wsj.com/articles/why-the-future-of-religion-is-bleak-1430104785?mod=trending_now_1
Reading your article was rejuvenating and was a re-affirmation for why I believe in Christ. Just wanted to say thanks for taking the time to write it and publish it.
Keep up the good fight, brother!
Stan
May 18, 2015 at 12:21 pm
Laura,
Thank you. I am glad that what I wrote helped you.
You ask an excellent question about how God could forgive the sins of those in the Old Testament without payment for their sins. The short answer is that God doesn’t save anyone without the penalty of death being paid. He cannot ignore their sin. If He did, He would no longer be just. So, how is the sin paid then if Jesus hadn’t died yet? The truth is that both the Old and New Testaments clearly teach that everyone who is saved, throughout all history, is saved the same way: by grace, through faith, on account of Jesus Christ, alone.
Many people falsely assume that the saints in the OT were saved because they obeyed the Law of Moses. This is incorrect. As I explained above in comment #176, there is no one in the OT who was without sin and not guilty before God. The New Testament writers make this clear. They even argue their case largely by appealing to the Old Testament Scriptures, themselves. For example, after spending three chapters proving that both Jews and Gentiles are unrighteous, quoting extensively from the Old Testament (Rom. 1-3), the apostle Paul concludes that no one will be declared righteous by observing the law (Rom. 3:20). Then Paul points to Abraham, the father of the Jews who lived long before Moses, as his prime example proving that salvation comes through faith, apart from any works that we perform. Paul says,
We need to remember that God is not bound by time in the same way that we are. He exists separate from it or outside it. He is eternal. We experience this story in a very linear fashion, because we are temporal creatures. However, God is not temporal. He experiences every moment of all eternity simultaneously. Jesus’ death and resurrection happened 2000+ years ago from our perspective. The time sequence is not relevant to God (from a standpoint of redemptive effect). It is like it is happening in this same moment, and it has always happened. The important fact is not WHEN it happened, but THAT it happened. Jesus’ triumph over death impacts all history (past and future). This is why Jesus’ death covers sins that were not committed at the time He died (like your sins and my sins). He paid for all sins whenever they were committed. Hebrews says,
Jesus Christ stands at the apex of history. Just as we look back in history to Christ’s sacrifice for our sins on the cross, Old Testament believers looked forward to His sacrifice for them. One clear example of this is Job. Job’s faith was in the fact that he knew that his “Redeemer lives, and that in the end he will stand upon the earth” (Job 19:25). Even though they did not know Jesus’ name yet, they trusted in God for their salvation and had faith that God would cover their sins. Paul explains in Romans 4 that this faith was credited to them as righteousness, because God looked to the cross where the penalty for their sins was placed on Christ. Their debt is paid in full…just as ours is when we are saved today (2000 years after His death).
Hopefully that helps some. Let me know if that just confused you more.
Jake
May 18, 2015 at 2:19 pm
Thanks Jake! That really cleared up that question, because I’ve ben wondering about it for a while. The fact that God experiences every moment of all eternity simultaneously is mind-boggling, but He is outside of time, so that makes some sense. I do have another question (I am a naturally curious person). Most cosmologists accept that the Big Bang is the starting point of the universe. I am not sure how that fits in with the Genesis account (if it does at all). If it does, does that mean that the universe really is 15+ billion years old? If so, how does that fit with the fact that God created everything in 6 days? If it doesn’t, why is the evidence for a Big Bang so numerous and convincing? Thanks for your time on that last question (you’re probably pretty busy), and I look forward to hear what you have to say!
Your sister in Christ,
Laura
May 18, 2015 at 2:39 pm
Hey,
Sorry, but as soon as I put that last comment in, I was reminded of another question I’ve been pondering for a while, and I can’t figure it out. I’m worried that I will forget it if I don’t put in now, so here it is. In Matthew 24:36, Jesus says, “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.” I know that Jesus is God (and the Son of God), and that God is omniscient, or all-knowing. How does that verse not make it look like Jesus is not all-knowing? Again, I truly do appreciate your time!
Laura
May 18, 2015 at 3:08 pm
Laura,
Good. I’m glad that helped. This question about the Big Bang and its implications on the Genesis account of creation is a huge subject. That’s a pretty big side tangent to the subject of this blog, so I don’t really want to chase that rabbit too much here. That being said, it’s a great question. I’d be happy to carry on more of a dialog about it via email, if you would like. Perhaps I could suggest an article that might help some to get started. http://www.str.org/articles/the-%E2%80%9Cbig-bang%E2%80%9D-as-an-act-of-god#.VVpo7GP0b3Q
Let me just quickly say that the Big Bang theory is indeed a very well established and scientifically supported theory. Additionally, the major assertions of the theory completely align with the Genesis creation account. The bible has long held that the universe came into existence at a specific instance in time, a finite time period ago, out of nothing. Science has only recently arrived at the same conclusion. Before Edwin Hubble and the Big Bang Theory, it was very common for atheists to claim the universe had always existed. Here’s a short video with Dr. William Lane Craig explains his take on the Big Band Theory: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3yF105RGW8
With regard to your question about the time frame of the Big Bang, I would have to argue that the bible is simply silent on this subject. It is true that there are 6 days of creation in the Genesis account, but this starts with the creation of the earth (it doesn’t describe the length of time prior to the creation of the sun and the earth). This is simply not a focus or purpose of the text. Also, there are many who interpret the individual “days” as “ages”. The Hebrew language is not very clear. The same word used for “days” is also used elsewhere for “age”. Many people will argue passionately on both sides of that debate, and I don’t think it is worth getting into here. The point is that regardless of where a person comes down on the 6 days issue, there is no reason not to accept the best scientific evidence we have for when the universe began. I believe the latest number is around 13.75 billion years ago.
The important thing to take away is that the theory confirms a major claim that is unique to the Jewish/Christian faith.
May 18, 2015 at 4:21 pm
Thank you Jake for your patience in answering. That article you suggested helped a lot, and I love it when science clearly agrees with the bible. Btw, could you pray for a close friend of mine? We have been friends for several years, and a couple years ago she told me that she was an atheist. I assured her that she was still my friend (she was worried I wouldn’t be), but that I was worried about her. A couple times I have tried to gently introduce a conversation about my faith, but she simply does NOT want to hear it. I think I made her angry a couple of times. I certainly don’t want to badger her, but at the same time the thought of my friend suffering in hell for eternity fills me with anguish. (I can’t even begin to imagine the anguish that Jesus feels, since the love He is capable of is infinitely greater than mine.) I pray that her heart might be softened so I have an opportunity to better tell her about my relationship with God. Thank you and God bless.
Laura
May 19, 2015 at 3:50 pm
Laura,
I wanted to take some time in order to contemplate how to best respond to your question about the nature of Jesus Christ and how Matt 24:36 says that the Son doesn’t know the day or the hour of his return. I confess that this is undoubtedly the most difficult question I have ever been asked! While this is not the first time I have pondered that question, I have spent the past couple days thinking it over afresh and reading from some respected bible scholars on the subject. This question is in truly deep water. In fact, this concerns perhaps the most difficult and mysterious doctrine in all of Christianity: the Hypostatic Union. As a result, I am unquestionably and profoundly over my head here. However, I can perhaps help point you in the right direction and provide a little insight. Just be aware that this will hurt your brain and you won’t understand it. But, did you really expect less of the Almighty God?
The Hypostatic Union is a term scholars use to describe the union of Christ’s humanity and divinity in one hypostasis, or individual existence. This has been a source of debate and intellectual effort for thousands of years. In 451 the church fathers summarized the orthodox definition of Jesus’ incarnation in a single statement called the Chalcedonian Creed. This statement has some profound, amazing, and mind-boggling implications. Here is a brief summary of what the statement affirms:
1. Jesus has two natures — He is God and man.
2. Each nature is full and complete — He is fully God and fully man.
3. Each nature remains distinct.
4. Christ is only one Person.
5.Things that are true of only one nature are nonetheless true of the Person of Christ.
Sorting through the ramifications of each of these points leads to some startling conclusions about the nature of Jesus. Since Jesus is both fully God and fully man, this means that He is the most unusual person in history! He is the only person to ever have two complete natures in one person. He has a fully divine nature as well as a fully human nature. He has both of these natures while maintaining all of the necessary attributes of each one, all in one person (not two separate people).
What it means that Jesus is fully God means that he didn’t set aside any of his divine attributes when he came to earth. He added humanity to his divinity. He did not subtract from his divinity. This means he is was still omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent in his divine nature. We cannot deny this or we no longer have a Jesus in which “the fullness of deity was pleased to dwell” (Col 1:19, see also Tit 2:13 and 2 Pet 1:1). However, in his human nature he was limited in power, knowledge and location. Jesus got hungry, thirsty and tired. He was weak and died…in his human nature. This was true even while in his divine nature he was never weak or tired and could not die. Jesus’ human nature was also limited in knowledge. He had to study and learn (Luk 2:52 and Heb. 5:7-8). However, his divine nature was omniscient (e.g. John 1:48 and Matt 12:25).
These are indisputable truths that can be all clearly seen in the bible. They are nevertheless hard to comprehend and reconcile, to say the least. How can seemingly contradictory character attributes be both true of the same being at the same time? I don’t know. But, I have zero examples of persons with two complete natures to compare it to.
What I can say is that it seems like at certain times Jesus relied on some of his divine qualities revealing supernatural knowledge, for example, in the case when he saw Nathanael under the tree (John 1:48) and when he knew what was on people’s minds (Matt 12:25), or when he told the disciples what would happen to the temple (Matt 24:1-2) or when Jesus promised to be with us forever even to the end of the age (Matt 28:20). These incidents make it clear he did indeed possess these divine attributes. At other times (in fact most of the time) it seems that Jesus was content to allow his human nature to manifest itself and dictate how he interacted with people, such as when he could not heal those without faith (Matt 13:58), when he got hungry and needed sustainment (John 4:6, 19:28 and Matt 4:2), when he studied and learned (Luk 2:52), and when he didn’t know the time or of his future return.
So, as hard to understand and it is, we have a situation where it can be truthfully said that Jesus both knew the hour and day of his future coming (in his divine nature) and also didn’t know (in his human nature), at the same time. Since point #5 above says that we can associate things that are true of one nature with being true of Jesus in general, it can be truthfully said that Jesus didn’t know. It could also be truthfully said that Jesus did know. This is not much help in resolving this apparent contradiction, but it is consistent with Scripture and the Chalcedonian Creed.
I personally prefer to think of it this way: that Jesus chose to cover his omniscient knowledge from his divine nature with human ignorance from his human nature for a brief period of time so that he could identify with us and experience life as we do. His divine nature was still there and he did exercise it occasionally. But, I think he commonly chose to not use his divine nature much and relied more on his human nature so as to better identify with us and to be more relatable (to walk in our footsteps, if you will). I have no analogies or examples to help illustrate this. There simply are none. Jesus is unique.
I realize that this explanation is woefully inadequate. I would need pages and pages to even begin to scratch the surface here. Perhaps the following paper would help if you want to dig deeper: http://christonly.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/Hypostatic_Union_Paper.84153219.pdf
I also found this page somewhat helpful: http://www.desiringgod.org/articles/how-can-jesus-be-god-and-man
God bless,
Jake
May 19, 2015 at 4:27 pm
I tried posting this comment and it was deleted, so I’ve made some edits that will hopefully get it approved. I would really appreciate you allowing this to be published, because it will greatly benefit Laura’s relationship with her atheist friend to hear another perspective beyond just those of her fellow Christians.
Hey Laura–I know you think you’re just looking out for your friend, but from her perspective your relationship with God is irrelevant, since God is a thing she doesn’t believe exists. It’s like if she came to you wanting to talk about her personal relationship with Zeus or Ra or Santa Claus. I don’t know her specific reasoning or personality, but if your friend is similar to most atheists I know, she isn’t a nonbeliever because her heart needs to be “softened.” She simply doesn’t see any reason to make the logical leap that God–especially the very specific version of God that Christianity describes–is real. It’s not about rejecting God, or being angry at God, or just needing to hear the heartfelt story of a believer like yourself. Most atheists just look at the available evidence and come to the conclusion that there’s probably no such thing as God. If you want to talk to her about your faith, you should also be open to hearing about her lack of faith and the reasoning behind it, and you should be ready to present a stronger argument than your own subjective experience. Here are some tips from an atheist about how to effectively talk to them about faith: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/daylightatheism/essays/how-not-to-convert-an-atheist/
May 20, 2015 at 6:46 am
To Jake McWhirter
i want to express my sincere appreciation for the thruth in what you write, for i have learned a great deal.
My question to you is, and this is the state of myself. i have for a while now felt a huge hunger in my faith and believe of Jesus our Lord and God our father, like i am ready to serve my purpose with regard to God but i cannot seem to come to that realisation, i have therefore found live on earth to be meaninless and sometimes i crave to live in spirit or perhaps i should say live more than what earth offers.
and at times i get dreams that normally would have some kind of undefined meaning or uncoded meaning but i am not good with interpretations.
i hope you would understand what i was trying to convey to you, english is my second language.
Handy Motshaba
Botswana, Africa
May 20, 2015 at 12:54 pm
Handy,
Greetings, brother, from America. Grace and Peace to you in Botswana from our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ! Thank you for writing. I so love to hear from brothers and sisters elsewhere in the world.
I believe that I do understand your question. It seems like you are struggling with understanding what God’s purpose is for your life. This is a huge question. I want you to know that you are not alone in that struggle. What you are experiencing is not unusual. In fact, that vast majority of followers of Jesus do not get a clear, specific and individual assignment directly from God for their life. I would say that this does occasionally happen, but it is very rare.
The vast majority of us, myself included, don’t receive this. That is ok, though. This doesn’t mean we are missing God’s plan or are not in His will. Living a “normal” Christian life; where you love and serve your family and church and live for Jesus in one place until you die . . . is a beautiful, God-honoring, and meaningful life.
The comforting thing is that we DO have much of God’s will for our lives spelled out. God’s revealed will is clearly communicated to us in the bible. God’s Word provides us with guiding principles and direction to deal with much of what we face in day to day life. The Psalmist correctly says that the Word “is a lamp to my feet and a light to my path” (Ps 119:105). So often people are waiting for God to speak to them and tell them what to do, when He has already spoken and answered their question within the Scriptures.
It is certainly true that the bible doesn’t provide us with specific direction for many of the decisions we make every day (like where to live, who to marry, where to work, etc.). However, if we truly seek God, are daily in the Word and allow it to convict us of sin and change our hearts, pray for wisdom, and seek council from other believers, our decisions will be informed and illuminated by the Holy Spirit. St. Augustine once said, “Love God and then do whatever you want”. There is a lot of truth in that. We don’t need to sit around waiting for God to tell us exactly what we need to do. He has given us His Word to inform us. He has given us His Spirit to direct us. He has promised that He will provide us with wisdom if we ask Him to. He has surrounded us with other brothers and sisters who also possess the Spirit and wisdom. What more do we need? Love God and do what seems best to you. There is a great book on this subject that helped me a lot as I have been wrestling with this same idea lately. It is called Just Do Something by Kevin DeYoung. If you can get a copy of this, I recommend it. I think it would help you.
The truth is that God has already told you much to do. You have the Great Commission that is the responsibility of all followers of Jesus . . . “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you…” (Matt 28:19-20) Those are your marching orders. The best translation of the Greek in that passage is “As you are going, make disciples…” Jesus is saying that we are all missionaries. We are all called to be on mission for Jesus Christ everyday as we go about our lives, wherever we go and whatever we do. Thus, it doesn’t necessarily mean you have to leave your home and go to a foreign mission field. But it DOES mean that you are always to be actively seeking ways to tell people about Jesus and make disciples. It could mean you need to leave and go somewhere else that needs to hear the Gospel. Pray about it, ask for wisdom, read the Word, seek godly council…and do what seems right to you. Life should never be pointless here on earth as long as there is anyone who has not yet heard and responded to the gospel!
In addition to the Great Commission, there are plenty of other things in the bible that called you to do. Here are a few examples: serve others (Mk 9:35), help widows and orphans (Jam 1:27), provide food and clothing to those in need (Matt 26:36), be involved in a church (1 Cor 12), use your spiritual gifts, talents and finances to help the church (1 Cor 12, Matt 25:14-30), work hard for God at secular work (Col 3:23-24), be thankful (1 Thes 5:18), be generous (Lk 6:38, 1 Tim 6:17-19), care for your parents (1 Tim 5:4, 8), spend time in prayer (1 Thes 5:17), fasting (Matt 6:16-18), celebrate with those who celebrate and mourn with those who mourn (Rom 12:15), etc. I could go on and on. My point here is that no Christian is floating around directionless with no purpose or direction from God. There is much to do. Find whatever good your hand finds to do and get busy!
There is no cause to find our existence on earth “meaningless”. In fact, as a result of what Jesus Christ did on the cross, every action we do as Christians, no matter how trivial it may be, can be worship unto our Father, and is thus redeemed and filled with value and purpose. It is only the Christian who can live life in this way; in which even seemingly meaningless tasks have eternal significance and meaning.
My encouragement to you it to let the hunger you have for Jesus drive you to spend more time in the Word. As you do this that, Holy Spirit will get a hold of you heart and give you stronger and stronger desires to serve Him. You will see many things in the Word that you are called to do. Let this hunger for Jesus that you have drive you to get busy being about God’s mission on earth. This is a surefire cure to your feelings of purposelessness and meaninglessness.
I should also note that it is not at all uncommon that the closer you grow to the Lord the less you will like this earth and the more you want to leave it. This is because you are becoming more and more aware that you are an alien here. As we grow in sanctification we realize that we really don’t belong here and we are made for something greater than this. That is normal and a very positive sign of progress. The Apostle Paul expressed this in his letter to Philippi when he said,
If I’m truly honest, I go through life much of the time with vague dissatisfaction and general feeling of “unbelongingness”. There is nothing I have found in this life that completely alleviates and satisfies this unfulfilled, longing desire. I cannot put a name on this longing or tell you what it is for, just that it is not met. Many things promise to do so, but they all have fallen short. Not even a relationship with God completely fills it. My heart resonates with The Rolling Stones famous song, “Satisfaction”, and even more with U2’s “I Still Haven’t Found What I’m Looking For”. The conclusion this leads me to is the same one that C.S. Lewis so articulately described in “Mere Christianity” . . .
Yes, we are destined for another country. The longing you experience is to remind you that you are not home yet. Therefore, let us live as strangers in this land, not seeing to find our ultimate fulfillment or contentment in it. But, let us not forsake hope now. We should be busy seeking God and living for Him here in this land. There is much to be done.
God bless,
Jake
May 20, 2015 at 2:16 pm
Amanda,
I am glad to post your advice to Laura now that is no longer contains the Straw Man attack on her (our) beliefs. The article you link to does indeed contain some valid points and good advice. I would (of course) disagree with your council on several points. It is certainly the belief of all Christians that an atheist’s heart does indeed need to be “softened” by God before they can see and understand spiritual truths. I would also point out that any atheist I have ever spoken with or read from who actually converted to Christianity would agree with this statement. C.S. Lewis, G.K. Chesterton and Lee Strobal are some prominent examples. These men would also tell you that your claim that most atheists don’t believe in God simply because they can’t make the logic leap to do so is incorrect in their cases. They admit their disbelief was primarily emotional and philosophical at its core. In fact, most atheists I have personally talked with have been honest enough to admit that at the very core, the first reason they rejected the idea of God was in reaction to some aspect, attribute, or action of God that they could not accept to be true. I believe this is true for the vast majority. This is why it has said by Doug Wilson that there are two tenets to atheism: 1) There is no God. 2) I hate him.
In truth, atheism is about rebellion, not lack of evidence. It is a rebellion that is common to all of us (and is not unique to atheism). It is a rebellion against God’s claim of authority of us, our lives and our circumstances. We all are guilty of this. Atheism is just one variation of it. Rebellion against God is the only reason a person would chose to prefer the irrational idea that the universe came into being a finite time period ago, on its own, from absolutely nothing, by no action, with no cause, after having not come into being for an eternity before that. This violates everything we know about both science and philosophy, and is against every single example we have in the entire sum of human experience. It violates our most basic and well established philosophical law, upon which everything we know (all reason, rationality, mathematics, and science) is founded: “from nothing, nothing comes”. It is worse than magic. Yet, the atheist prefers this idea to the explanation that something beyond the universe (outside of time and space) must exist powerful enough to cause it to come into being. To prefer a theory with no cause to one with a sufficient cause is the definition of irrationality and reveals that there is more behind the rejection than objective evaluation of evidence.
What atheists (and all non-believers in Jesus) need is a change of their heart, and opening of their eyes, so that they can see, understand and accept truth. This can only come as a result of supernatural intervention on the part of God. Until this happens all the evidence, logic and argument (regardless of how valid) will do nothing to get past this barrier. Laura is right to pray and ask for prayer for her friend. I will certainly join her in praying. That being said, God can and does use evidence and arguments to accomplish this work. We can certainly join Him in this task. C.S. Lewis became convinced partially due to the arguments of his friend, J.R.R. Tolkien, and also through his reading of Christian writers.
Jake
May 22, 2015 at 10:02 am
To Handy Motshaba
I hope that my message finds you ,I have had the same feelings you are having ,like my life was ment for so much more .Most of my life was dedicated to a life of materials and excess up until three years ago in a alcohol soaked dream God intervened in my life . little did I know that the search I had been looking for was in Jesus, just like you .Like you living life for Christ I was looking for a large task to take over ,while my days were better they still seemed as if there was more for me to do ,all I can say is stay true and continue to study the word and pray .That simple life while you may not no it ,sets the example for so many others to start to fallow Christ and lead upright lives ,the Father will show you the way ,stay firm in your covenant with him he will show you the way and even if you don’t feel like the next big minister .If by your simple example you help one more child of God with your actions ,your reward will be great! I would recommend you read the book of Ruth and see how her simple life lead to greatness in king David all the way to Jesus the simple effect of your righteousness threw faith can change the world threw a ripple effect ,like a rock being thrown in water one simple good act of faith can cause many waves of greatness .As I said I hope my words find you and are helpful ,keep the faith brother Handy ,also yes I to believe brother Jake to be blessed with great wisdom to help and encourage many of us .
May 25, 2015 at 12:55 am
To Jake McWhirter and Jason Darnell
I acknowledge receipt of your great responses.
I thank you today, tomorrow and forever and i pray to the Lord and Father to bless you more to continue to bring pure clarity of the understanding of the truth in the word to those who seek it.
Grace be unto you
Handy Motshaba
June 6, 2015 at 11:36 am
Which religion is true on the world? And how can you know its truth.
June 6, 2015 at 5:20 pm
Lwangana,
I could write a ton on this question. Perhaps the best place to start would be what I have written in the following blog article: https://missionarybrewer.wordpress.com/2013/01/31/why-believe-in-christianity-over-other-religions/ I would start by reading that.
The important question you should ask is which religious faith can provide evidence that it is true. Christianity is unique in this regard. It is based on verifiable historical events. Others are not? Please let me know of this helps or if you have any questions.
God bless,
Jake
June 10, 2015 at 9:28 am
If Christians had good evidence for the Resurrection, they wouldn’t ask you to believe by Faith
Think about that.
Historians don’t ask you to believe the historicity of any other alleged event in history…”by faith”. So why do we need faith to believe in the Resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth if the evidence for this event is as strong as Christian apologists claim?
Christian Americans, Muslim Iranians, Hindu Indians, and atheist Japanese all believe that Alexander the Great captured the city of Tyre; that Caesar crossed the Rubicon; and that Roman general Titus destroyed Jerusalem in 70 AD. No one is asked to use faith to believe the historicity of these events. So why do we need faith to believe in the Resurrection of Jesus if the evidence for it is good?
Answer: It’s not good. In fact, its terrible; nothing but assumptions and second century hearsay.
Christians ask us to believe their ancient, supernatural tall tale based on very weak evidence, and, a jump into the dark (faith). And how do they get us to make this jump into the dark? Not by presenting us with more evidence, but by appeals to our emotions and/or our fears: Either by using, “Our almighty, all-knowing god will protect you and give you eternal life (security and hope)”, or, “Our righteous, just, and holy god will torture you for all eternity if you DON’T make the jump (using blind faith).”
It’s an ugly, manipulative, sadistic superstition, folks. Unfortunately, it is the superstition used by the largest cult on the planet.
Let’s double our efforts to debunk it.
June 12, 2015 at 1:58 pm
Gary M,
Welcome to my blog. I would be happy to discuss any honest question you have about the evidence for Christianity. The evidence is strong and compelling. The accusations you make are simply false.
You claim that Christians ask people to believe “by faith” (by which you mean “blind faith”), without any evidence. This is not true. You do not understand what a Christian means by faith. The biblical definition of faith can be characterized as trust. It is trust in the evidence. It is trusting in what you know to be true from investigating many sources. I would NEVER expect anyone to believe something blindly, apart from evidence.
This is precisely where Christianity is DIFFERENT than other faiths. Other faiths (like Buddhism and Islam) require faith in the absence of any evidential support. Christianity, on the other hand, is based on historical fact. This is one reason that Jesus came to earth; because God DOESN’T expect people to believe in a vacuum of evidence. Jesus came to earth to provide concrete evidence for the reality of Himself as God. Jesus came to earth at a very unique and intentional time in human history. Jesus came at a time when Rome had civilized the world, established relative peace, and built roads connecting all parts of it, so the message could be rapidly spread. Jesus came at a time when language had been greatly harmonized so the message could be shared. Jesus came at a time when historians were beginning to record events that occurred and could document the miracles and the resurrection, so that there would be impartial and unbiased historical conformation of these facts. All this was to ensure that there would be evidence, historical evidence, which would testify to the reality of who Jesus was. It ensured this message would be spread throughout the whole world, such that no one can claim that they did not have the opportunity to hear the eyewitness testimony.
You claim that Christians have no evidence for the resurrection of Jesus. This couldn’t be further from the truth! The resurrection is one of the best documented events in ancient history. In fact, we have the combined eyewitness testimony of 9 people who were actually there and actually saw what Jesus did. Their testimony is in harmony. These are the authors of the New Testament. It is important to remember that the bible was not written as one book. These writings weren’t consolidated until hundreds of years later. It is simply a collection of writings from eyewitnesses recording what they saw. You can say that you don’t believe the testimony of these witnesses, but why? What reason do you have to reject the relevant witness testimony? What other testimony do you have to offer that is more reliable than these? You can’t do that in court of law, and it is bad historical methodology to do so with history. It is not legitimate historical analysis to reject credible and valid eyewitness testimony simply because you don’t like what they said or you don’t agree with them. You cannot dismiss testimony without valid reason to do so.
If the testimonies of the 9 witnesses are not enough, I have more. To the 9, I can add 20 early Christian writers outside of New Testament writings, that further backup the testimony of the 9. These additional 20 witnesses recorded what they saw in writings that are not included in the bible, but that further support the testimony of the 9. In addition to these 29 eyewitness sources who were Christians, I can also add 9 sources that are distinctly non-Christian. These are Roman and Jewish writers and historians with no skin in the game in supporting a myth or perpetuating a false claim. Yet, they write about Jesus’ life, death, and resurrection, supporting all that is written about him by the 9 biblical authors. In fact, there are as many non-Christian sources who describe the life of Jesus (within 150 years of his life) as there are sources who talk about Roman emperor at the time (Tiberius Caesar)!
So, let’s summarize here. I have 29 confirmed and documented eyewitness accounts of the life of Jesus which support the most complete accounts (the ones written by the 9 biblical authors). All together that’s 38 eyewitness accounts! And, tell me again what you have to refute this monumental stack of firsthand eyewitness documentation?
Think about that.
This is not about faith (as you define it). You have been sorely misled. It’s about objectively evaluating the historical accounts. It is simply not possibly to deny the life, death and resurrection of Jesus from a historical perspective. It is simply too well documented.
Ironically, you state that everyone believes that Alexander the Great captured the city of Tyre. But, this historical event has FAR LESS documentation than the resurrection of Jesus! The earliest biography of Alexander the Great was written 400 years after his death. The earliest account of Jesus (1 Corinthians 15) was written within 5 years of Jesus’ death. The earliest gospel, Mark, was written about 30 years after Jesus’ death. And, the earliest non-Christian source, Josephus, wrote about Jesus about 70 years after his death. Additionally, there are fewer historical sources that mention Alexander the Great than there are that mention the resurrection of Jesus. If you accept Alexander the Great’s actions as fact (or Caesar’s, or Titus, etc.), what basis can you give for denying the resurrection? This is just biased historical methodology. This is just an example of the logical fallacy called “Special Pleading”. You are requiring something of the account of Jesus that you do not require of other historical events. It’s a double standard.
If you truly wish to “double your efforts to debunk” Christianity, you have a long way to go. As of yet, you have provided exactly zero counter pieces of evidence to refute the monumental eyewitness documentation in favor of the resurrection. All you have succeeded in doing so far is to call it ugly, manipulative and a superstition. But, name calling doesn’t refute a claim. When two eyewitnesses take the stand in court and testify that something happened, you must introduce some compelling evidence to overpower their testimony. We don’t just have two. We have 38 separate and individual accounts that all say the same thing. Some of these come from enemies of Jesus and from those who wanted to stop the spread of Christianity.
The case is robust and difficult to rebut. Many have tried, but none have succeeded. In fact, many who set out with the mission to disprove the resurrection find themselves convinced of its truth in the end. Here are a few examples:
William Mitchell Ramsay (renowned archaeologist)
Josh McDowell (Professor and author)
Richard Lunsden (Biologist)
Lee Strobal (Investigative Journalist, author)
Gilbert West (Prominent lawyer, author)
Lord Lyttelton (Eminent Lawyer)
Frank Morison (author)
Lew Wallace (Governor of New Mexico, Author of Ben Hur)
I encourage you (and everyone) to actually look into the evidence of the resurrection for yourself. Counter to your claim, Christianity has nothing to fear from a deep and through examination of the evidence. We welcome it! Unlike other faiths, Christianity encourages thoughtful examination of the available evidence and critical thinking. I am confident, if you do so honestly and objectively, you will find that the evidence is monumental. It is hard to dismiss once it has been thoroughly reviewed. Here are a couple of places where you can start looking into this:
http://missionarybrewer.wordpress.com/2013/07/08/can-the-new-testament-really-be-trusted/
http://missionarybrewer.wordpress.com/2011/01/06/does-archeological-evidence-support-the-history-recorded-in-the-bible/
http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2013/07/christianity-the-worlds-most-falsifiable-religion/
http://missionarybrewer.wordpress.com/2013/01/31/why-believe-in-christianity-over-other-religions/
God bless,
Jake
June 13, 2015 at 6:41 pm
thank you very much this has been very helpful and very inspirational as I to believe Christianity to be exactly as u have spoke of and I believe Jesus Christ died for my sins as well as everyone elses and Iaccept Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior .
June 13, 2015 at 10:39 pm
Salvation through Jesus Christ rests on faith, not good works. Abraham was saved not by good works, but his faith, his willingness to sacrifice his only son, Isaac because God asked it if him.
Everyone, no matter how many good works they perform will sin, there is a reason why God asked Moses to cover his face as He passed by. The Israelites sacrificed animals at the Passover and the feast of Atonement so their sins could be covered.
What many Christians and philosophers forget, Jesus commanded his disciples to love one another which makes any sin impossible, and to love your enemies, Jesus told them not to lie their treasures were they could be corrupted – in the world which is under Satan’s dominion.
What does that mean? It means as a Christian, you will have to answer the questions, when I was hungry, did you feed me? When I was thirsty , did you give me to drink? When I was imprisoned, did you visit me?
I believe James says, faith without good works is dead. You can not be reborn spiritually and continue as if nothing happened.
Revelation makes it clear that those who obviously knew the Lord because they called to Him and asked Lord, don’t you remember me?
And he replied asking them the aformentioned questions, yes, they had faith but works did not follow. Do you think they will get away with lip service, no!
The Bible says, The Lord’s reply was, I never knew you and spat them out like luke warm water.
Grace, faith that Jesus Christ is the Way, Truth and Life because He is the Lamb of God with who the Father is pleased. That His Father raised the Temple, His Holy Body having been separated from His Father when He bore our sins for the first time before time.
But Christian means Christ like, we must be good representatives on earth and allow the Holy Spirit to manifest Himself through us by performing good works, in humility, always seeking peace, absent of fear, and worshipping nothing but God with all our hearts and souls.We are saved by grace, therefore but grace without mercy and good works is surely dead.
June 14, 2015 at 2:40 pm
Charles,
I totally agree. Faith without works is indeed dead, because it was never true faith at all. Saving faith cannot but result in producing good works. When someone transfers from death to life by placing their faith in Jesus Christ as their lord, their very being, their heart, changes. They become a new person and they will desire to serve God, not out of compulsion or a need to earn or deserve favor from God, but out of gratitude and joy as they are spured on by the Holy Spirit. Being a Christian is much more about focussing on Jesus and what He has done for us than it is about striving to live a perfect life or muster up good works. These things will happen as we seek Jesus and concentrate on what He has done. Niel Anderson said it this way. . .
“Why do you need the nature of Christ within you? So you can be like Christ, not just act like Him. God has not given us power to imitate Him. He has made us partakers of His nature so that we can actually be like Him. You don’t become a Christian by acting like one. You are not on a performance basis with God. He doesn’t say “Here are my standards, now measure up.” He knows you can’t solve the problem of an old sinful self by simply improving your behavior. He must change your nature, give you an entirely new self–the life of Christ in you–which is the grace you need to measure up to His standards.”
It is really God who does the work, not us. Yes we work, but it is the Holy Spirit who gives us both the desires and the ability to carry them out. Thus, God still gets all the credit. As we abide in Jesus, the Holy Spirit produces fruit in us. And, good works will be the natural outcome. They are the byproduct, not the source. They are the overflow, not the focus.
God bless,
Jake
June 16, 2015 at 9:41 pm
I enjoyed this article so very much. It tells the truth about God. Thank you. God bless you.
June 18, 2015 at 12:10 pm
How does this tell you who God is, I am even more confused then ever. Now Christianity is not a religion. It is based on belief, and religion is a belief in some sort of higher being, there is no 100% proof that any on this bible is real. You are right that a relationship takes two, but the relationship you are talking about is between you and a belief, no between anything that is provable. To have a relationship you have to have two parties giving and the last time I checked God hasn’t been seen in over 4000 years. Now your belief can be a very powerful thing in your life and I am not saying that you are wrong for believing in God, if that makes your soul whole then that is all that counts. To say that Christianity is not a religion is ridiculous, I have honestly been trying to find this Holy Spirit attending church going to groups, but all I see is people hiding from the world. God has not done anything for anyone, everyday happenings are not works of God. You have your job because you earned and you made your own path. The truth that I have found is that the Bible was written thousands of years ago and has truly hasn’t made it through the test of time. The more I research and the more I read posting from Christians the further it drives me from being a Christian. I have not found one Christian that follows the bible fully, Christians pick and choose what to follow. As verses have been made obsolete in time you guys choose to ignore them, so how can you have a true relationship with God when you don’t follow the words that are in the bible and I am not saying his words because there is no proof that anything in the bible is his word, it was written by humans who fear the unknown and and were scared of anything that was different from them. I am not going to keep going on with all the wrongs from Christianity, I am going to say that the writings of eons ago need to be laid to rest. I am sorry that I do not feel as you all do but some reality needs to be made here, there is no relationship when it is one sided not one person has had a talk with God, and the writings of people who have were nothing more than folk lore handed down to them from generation to generation. I am sorry but all of you confuse me when there is not one set way with God, there thousands of denominations and every one is telling the other they are wrong. COMPLETELY CONFUSED
June 22, 2015 at 2:04 pm
Jerry,
You are correct; it appears you are very confused. Let me see if I can help your confusion some.
As I have repeatedly stated here, whether or not you considered Christianity a “religion” or not depends completely on how one defines the word “religion”. If you define it as you did in your comment, “a belief in some sort of higher being”, then of course Christianity would fall under that broad definition. Of course, by your definition, anyone who believes in a vague higher power with no discernible identity would also be practicing a religion. This is not a common notion of what a defined religion is. That is certainly not what is meant when people say “organized religion”. Also, Buddhism would not qualify as a religion by your definition (as it is typically atheistic). Your definition is far too broad and also far to inclusivistic. I much prefer my definition, but to each their own. I will certainly allow you to use yours. All I ask that that you recognize my right to use the definition I have chosen here.
Maybe it would help you understand the distinction I am making between Christianity and other religions if I were to say that Christianity is the only faith that isn’t religious. Or, if you prefer, Christianity is the only religion that isn’t religious. To say that someone is religious or that a faith is religious is stating that there are actions and rituals that are required to be performed. They must be performed religiously (meaning consistently, frequently, repetitively, or dutifully). This is the distinction. Christianity, alone, is a faith that does not demand anything be done by us beyond faith in the work of Jesus on our behalf. It is a fundamental difference and cannot be ignored.
You seem to expect or demand that the existence of God be “provable” (by which you seem to mean “100% proof”). This is not a reasonable expectation. It is nearly impossible to truly prove anything (to 100% certainty). This is because in order to do so you must first prove that you know all the possibilities. You can’t prove you’re not a butterfly dreaming you’re a boy. In fact, you cannot prove anything to 100% certainty.
Knowledge does not require certainty. You absolutely can know something without being certain about it. There are many points of scientific knowledge that are not 100% certain, yet it is still knowledge. If we waited for all scientific theories to become proven laws before we used them or based any conclusions on them, science would not have progressed very far. In fact, even scientific laws are not proven 100%. Knowledge simply requires having adequately good reasons for what you believe. If you have a doubt about something, it doesn’t follow that you no longer know it.
So what is knowledge? This gets into the philosophical discipline of epistemology. What does it mean to “know” something? Knowing something does NOT mean being 100% sure of it. I know that the chair at my kitchen table is sound and will support my weight. However, is it remotely possible that this time it might not? Of course it is. It is always possible. But, that doesn’t, then, negate my knowledge of the chair’s soundness. But, how is it that I know it is sound? J.P. Moreland, one of the smartest men I know of, has said that there are three sources of knowledge. He is getting this from Plato’s definition, as well as other sources.
1. Experiential knowledge. i.e. by seeing or experiencing something.
2. Propositional knowledge. True belief based on good reasons. Knowledge must include good reasons. It is not enough to have true belief. We must know why we believe it or we don’t really have knowledge.
3. Skill or practical wisdom. The ability to practically apply truth.
My belief (biblical faith) is based on knowledge. It is rooted in what I know. It is rooted in my experiential knowledge (my living relationship with God, my experience with witnessing the supernatural and hearing Him speak). It is rooted in propositional knowledge. I know because I have solid, valid reasons for why I think this is true. My position is logically consistent and it stands up to the available evidence. It is rooted in practical wisdom. The assertions of Christianity have repeatedly demonstrated the wisdom in their advice and approach to the practical issues of life. I have repeatedly seen that the principles in the Bible represent the best and wisest way to live. As such, my faith is indeed based on what I know. This is a very important distinction, so please watch this video explanation that illustrates what I am saying: http://strplace.wordpress.com/2011/08/11/challenge-response-faith-is-gullibility/
You seem to require proof that there is a God and will except nothing short of concrete proof to change your belief. However, you do not require this same level of proof to hold your belief that the God of the bible does not exist. It just seems like you are being very biased when you require proof from one side of the argument and not from the other in order to hold that belief. Who proved to you that the the God of the bible doesn’t exist? No one? Then how did you arrive at that belief? It is totally unfair to demand proof of an opposing point of view when your current point of view did not require that same level of proof. Additionally, this is unscientific.
The only truly objective position is to allow both propositions equal footing and then look at the evidence for/against each position. This means you are not requiring either one to be proven in order to be accepted as the best theory. Additionally, if the existing theory is shown to not match the preponderance of evidence (as you learn more) an objective observer would change their opinion. A truly scientific mind would change their hypothesis if the available information became weighted in favor of an opposing theory.
As astrophysicist, Dr. Alexander Vilenkin (Professor of Physics and director of the Institute of Cosmology at Tuffs University), has said . . .
Don’t be an unreasonable man.
You need to check again. My claim is that Jesus Christ was God and came to earth as a man. This is was just over 2000 years ago (half the time you mention). This is the claim of Christianity. You can refuse to believe it if you want, but this is what Jesus claimed, so his claim needs to be tested and evaluated before you can authoritative state this. Also, just because something is not seen by you, it does not at all imply it isn’t there or doesn’t exist. There are many things you do not see but do not question their existence. You believe in electricity and in air, correct? You presumably believe that I exist, right? You can see the effects these things leave, but you cannot see them. The same is true of God. While I have never seen Him with my eyes, I have seen His work and can easily recognize it as such. I also hear from Him regularly. You can dismiss this because you have never experienced it. You won’t experience it and can’t. God speaks to His children. He communicates to those who have placed their faith and trust in Jesus alone for salvation.
You cannot go looking for the Holy Spirit, as you said you have. You will not find Him. This is no surprise. The bible says that the Spirit is like the wind blowing where it wishes. No one can know where it is or where it will go (John 3). The only way to know the Spirit is by believing in the Son. You must come to the place that you surrender your life, repent of going your way and not God’s way and place your faith, hope and trust in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. Until you do that, you will never find the Spirit and you will never understand what those of us who have mean when we say that we DO commune with God and we DO hear Him speak to us.
The relationship I have with God is indeed two way. He is much more than something I believe in with my mind. He is my joy, my peace, my hope, my comforter, my councilor, my companion, and my Lord. He speaks to me through His Spirit in my heart, through His Word, through events He orchestrates, and through other people.
You say that “everyday happenings are not works of God”. How do you know? This God you believe in is not very powerful. He seems kind of neutered. Are you sure this is the same God who created the entire universe out of nothing? Because that God seems pretty powerful and all knowing to me. I do not see how a God that powerful and intelligent could not also be sovereign over everything that happens. To me, this is just implied by His creation of the universe. If God bothered to create an ant and structure how they function, it seems like He cares a good bit about how events in our lives play out. To me it seems like you cannot hear God because you refuse to listen and refuse to entertain the possibility that He is speaking all the time.
Really? He created you out of dirt. He breathed life into you and make you think, feel and reason. He gives you air to breath. He causes the sun to shine upon you giving you warmth and energy. He causes food to grow and provides the world you live in with nourishment. He does all this while you (and all of us) thumb your nose and Him, reject Him, and chose to go your own way instead of following Him. He does all this even though you take these blessings for granted and then accuse Him of giving you nothing (when in reality is us who have given Him nothing). But this is just the beginning. He went so much further. He chose to pay for your rebellion against Him by taking your punishment for you. He chose to come to earth and live as a man, feeling pain as we do. He chose to demonstrate His love for you by showing you how to live life, by living the perfect life you could never life. He chose to prove His unfathomable love for you by enduring our persecution, our insults, our baseless attacks, by willingly taking your place and allowing Himself to be brutally murdered. All of this, He did for you so that you can know that God does love you and does do EVERYTHING for you.
This is an interesting comment. I don’t exactly know why/how you can claim this. It what way has it not stood the test of time? The bible (by the very fact that we are discussing it) has indeed stood the test of time. It says exactly the same thing today as it did when it was written, and we can prove that. It is the basis for the largest faith in the world today. It is also still the fastest growing faith. It has been historically verified countless times. It has proven itself as a reliable documentation of historical people, places, and events. It provides unimaginably wise council and proven practical, livable wisdom. Read the words of Jesus and see if you can’t see their wisdom. They are teaching which counter our natural notions yet prove so healthy and correct (love your enemies, do good to those who persecute you, forgive those who wrong you, do not return evil for evil but return good for evil, do unto others as you would have them do to you, love your neighbor as yourself, if you want to be great learn to be the servant of everyone, love God and love your neighbor, etc.) Contrast these with the teachings of Mohammad, for example. Many religions since have tried to adopt the teachings of Jesus because He truly taught the best way to live.
Yes, this is true. I have never found one either. I certainly cannot claim that I do this. This does nothing to prove Jesus wrong, though. All this proves is that Christians are flawed, imperfect people. Is that really that surprising? Christians are human. Becoming a Christian doesn’t make you superhuman. While I may wish to live like Jesus all the time, the truth is I am not Jesus. I fall short of that mark every day. The message of Christianity is not that you will become a perfect follower of Jesus once you turn to Him. Far from it. The message is that it is a journey. We are all a bunch of imperfect people on a journey to gradually become more like Jesus. We are all sick people who need a doctor. All Christians need help from Jesus everyday to grow more and more like Him.
You need to stop looking for perfect Christians and look to the only perfect person to ever live, Jesus Christ. I may not be able to draw a perfect circle. This doesn’t at all imply there is no such thing as a perfect circle, though. My attempt to reproduce the original is not the standard. My attempt to live like Jesus is not the standard for Christianity, either.
There are no words in the bible that are obsolete. Just because someone chooses to ignore them, doesn’t make them obsolete. You can choose to ignore the directions for how to assemble your IKEA furniture if you want, but that doesn’t make the directions obsolete. It seems you are confusing people’s inability to I fully carry out and obey all the verses in the bible with claiming they are obsolete. It is certainly true that a few so-called Christians may actually claim that there are obsolete verses in the bible. But, this is not common and that is not a belief held by the vast majority of Christians. I believe everything written in the bible. This is not the same as saying that I always live up to that or that I always execute it fully or perfectly. I certainly don’t.
That’s a bold claim. While I don’t deal in “proof” (as I already explained) I can certainly provide you with MUCH evidence that the events described in the bible are true. I can even demonstrate to you have Jesus fulfilled over 300 specific Old Testament prophecies that were made hundreds and even thousands of years before he was born. If that claim is true, it is powerful. It deserves investigation on your part.
With regard to your claim that the events in the bible are nothing more that folk lore, I can show you countless examples of where events, people and places ONLY described in the bible have been verified and validated as real from archeology. I can also show you have virtually all contemporary historians acknowledge that that life, death, and empty tomb of Jesus are true historical events. This is not even in debate among historians. The historicity of the New Testament is wildly considered as credible.
Perhaps I can ask you what, specifically, you believe is folk lore? What events, people or places in the bible do you reject? What evidence or empirical basis do you reject this on? This is a bold claim that requires substantiation.
This is actually not true. It is certainly true that there are many Christian denominations. It is also true that we don’t agree on every single thing. But, it is NOT true that we don’t agree on anything or that we don’t agree on much. All Christian denominations agree on the points you and I are discussing here. We all agree on who Jesus was, what He came to do and how one must be saved. The points of disagreement are on minor aspects (like how one should be baptized or what type of instruments should be used in church or whether women should peach, etc.). These are not major tenants of Christianity. They aren’t disputes regarding fundamental doctrine. They are more about individual expressions of how people prefer to live out our joint faith.
For example, there may be 20 burger restaurants in my town. This doesn’t mean none of them agree on what a burger is, and are all telling each other they are wrong. No, it just means there are some aspects to making a burger that are not a mathematical formula. There is some art involved. Some preference is involved. Some may prefer the way it is done at Red Robin while others prefer Blazing Onion. It doesn’t mean one is wrong, necessarily. Some people may like to worship God with organ music and robed choirs while others may prefer a rock band with loud contemporary praise music. Some may like the tradition of reciting liturgy while others don’t.
It is true that there are some points of disagreement that one side must be wrong over and the other right. This is why it is sometimes necessary for those who feel strongly on an issue to separate from those who feel the other way. This however, doesn’t diminish the things we have in common (which is the VAST majority). While we may not agree on 100% of our doctrine, all Christian churches agree on at least 90% of it. We may sometimes argue over the 10%, but this doesn’t negate the 90%. There is no need to be completely confused. Focus on that which all Christian denominations agree on and you will have everything you need.
God bless,
Jake
June 24, 2015 at 9:27 pm
Thank you so much for making me understand what I have questioned for awhile now, it has been very inspirational. There’s has also been something I have yet to understand and that is the differences and works of; God the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit (if I have listed them correctly, correct me if I am wrong though) I believe it’s called the Holy trinity? Not sure, it’s always been a bit confusing for me and never wanted to ask (thinking I’d be judged for such a silly question).
God Bless!
June 25, 2015 at 1:55 pm
We give the glory to Jesus for such great insight into the wisdom of God.
June 30, 2015 at 8:02 am
Hi there. I came from different religions like Catholic, Born Again, JW, SDA, INC, COG, Mormons and now I don’t have religion at all. I call myself as a Believer.
My question is, do you think or do you believe that your beliefs didn’t break any of the commandments? I don’t want to use the word “Perfect” cause people always use the word “Nobody is perfect except Jesus.” What I mean on my question is, do you think that all of your understanding about the Bible is correct? It’s not actually a irony question. I just want to see how you response about that question. Sorry I’m not that good in English Grammar.
Thank you in advance for the answer. God bless you all. ^_^
June 30, 2015 at 12:31 pm
Zinc,
Thanks for writing. I certainly do not claim that I understand God or the bible perfectly or fully. This is not possible because I am imperfect. No human can know God completely or fully. Not even the Apostle Paul could claim that. In fact, he said it this way . . .
We cannot know God fully here on this earth, but someday in heaven, those who follow Jesus will understand things much more clearly.
This, however, does not imply that we cannot know God at all or that we are at a complete loss to understand anything about him now. There is much advanced mathematics that may be beyond me (at least beyond my education level). This does not at all imply that I can’t grasp or master basic arithmetic, algebra, trigonometry and geometry. These things I understand very well. The fact that I may not be able to do chaos math or advanced differential equations doesn’t negate my knowledge of these other aspects of math. In fact, they are the main and primary principles that the others are built upon.
This is similar to understanding God and His word. Just because there are advanced things about God I do not understand, it does not negate the basic understanding that I do have; that which can be clearly understood from reading his word. Similarly, there may be deep and complex matters of theology that are contained in the bible. This is in fact true. One could spend multiple lifetimes and not mine all of it. But, this does not mean that if you don’t comprehend all of these theological points you understand nothing. The deeper things do not negate the more plain things. They add to them, draw their implications further, expound them, but never refute them.
It is certainly true that I am likely mistaken about some of the things I believe about God. If I knew what they were, I would stop believing them. However, this doesn’t mean I am mistaken about everything. Fortunately, I believe that the Holy Spirit guides us and helps us to grow in our understanding as we mature as followers of Jesus. I have had this happen in my life continually. I have changed my views on several points as God has made it clear to me that I was in error. These have largely been on deep issues that go beyond the primary and basic understanding of the Christian faith. But, this growth has helped me go further and deeper in my understanding of God. like Paul, I know that now I only know in part, but someday I will know fully.
I hope that helps.
God bless,
Jake
July 1, 2015 at 1:09 pm
man!thanks for ur divine understanding,Remain blessed in JESUS name.
July 3, 2015 at 4:41 am
[…] The month of June, 2015. I am trying to sort out the common thread of current political and social issues we are facing on the front line. I am addressing these issues from a Christian perspective where I hope to diffuse the prevailing conservative fundamentalist thought. Christianity has been primarily responsible for these injustices of human rights throughout history. I hope to offer a voice that helps to merge these dividing lines. I am ashamed that in the name of God many people have been victims to injustice and abuse.This is not Christianity. This is not spirituality. This is religion. Religion is outdated superstitious law that caused so much bloodshed. Religion (almost universally) is enforced by those in power in an attempt to maintain, increase, or abuse their power over others. -Jake McWhirter (to read more of why Christianity is not religious, check out Jakes’s website). […]
July 4, 2015 at 2:42 am
People used to point us on our mistakes, that’s why the first thing I saw is that you misspelled my name. But it doesn’t matter. Not a big deal.
That was a very good answer. Well, I asked that question because there’s a lot of religions claiming that their teachings are all perfect or for what they believe. And I still believe that there is “no perfect” religion or for whatsoever you called Christians not Religion. I believe in Sabbath Day that we need to keep it Holy. (Luke 23:54-56, Matthew 5:18) I believe also that there is only One God (John 17:1) I believe that Jesus is son of God not a God. (Mark 10:18, John 20:17) I believe that there is no Trinitiy, no 3 God in 1. And I believe also that all my beliefs are not perfect. Well, just sharing. Thank you so much for answering my questions. I really appreciate it. May God bless you all in the name of Jesus our savior.
July 4, 2015 at 8:36 pm
Amen, I agree with you. Christianity is a relationship between God And man not a religion. And so is family an institution but husband and wife are not family employees. But theirs is a relationship.
July 9, 2015 at 8:21 pm
Thank you Jesus for understanding and the one you used to explain the difference. I wood love too read how good is good enough. I except Jesus as my Lord and savior I believe he is God’s son who died on the cross and buried and raised on the third for all my sin. I know I’m saved because of what JESUS done and I can never say I’m good enough to enter the kingdom of God by my good deeds or any other way but by through Jesus. Thank Jesus for all you have done so I’m forgiven for all my sin. Past presence and future. Thank you father in the name of Jesus our Lord and our Savior. Amen. God bless you for blessing me to read and get and true understanding. I love you in the name of Jesus our great and wonderful Lord. To God be all glory honor and praise in the mighty name of Jesus. Amen
July 12, 2015 at 6:23 am
Realy nice but i want to become a christian but my father is a moslem is it realy axcepted to leave my father’s religion if i want plz?
July 13, 2015 at 9:14 am
Aziz,
I am happy to hear that you want to become a Christian. This is a huge decision and the implications are massive for you. It is life altering.
Becoming a follower of Jesus is not like a club you join in addition to the rest of your life. It is more like abandoning your entire life, turning around and accepting the new life that Jesus gives you. This is why the bible says that our old self dies (Romans 6:6). Jesus compared it to being “born again” (John 3). It a completely fresh start, a new beginning, a renewed purpose, mission, focus, and drive for your life. It is a new way of looking at the world. It is a completely new way of living and thinking.
A relationship with Jesus starts with abandonment. It starts with abandoning yourself and your way. This is what FAITH means. It means so much more than just believing something is true. Someone may say they believe that a bridge will support their weight, but they have not had FAITH that the bridge will hold them until they walk out on it. It is this action of complete trust, with no plan B, which cements their belief in action and results in faith. It is only when they are standing on the bridge that their mental belief becomes actual faith.
In order to become a Christian, you need actual FAITH in Jesus (not just mental belief). You must place your complete, total, committed, no plan B, trust in Jesus. You need to place your hope, future, dreams, and fears in Jesus. You must repent of going your own way and give total and complete control of your life over to Him.
The answer to your question is yes, if you become a Christian you must abandon the Muslim faith. They are in clear opposition. You cannot be a Muslim and believe that Jesus is God. You cannot be a Christian and deny this. You have to answer this question for yourself: who do you say that Jesus is? How you answer that question (by both your thoughts and actions) will determine if you are a Christian or not.
You can certainly be a Christian who loves and accepts your family that believes differently than you. In fact, this is expected. Perhaps through your love and compassion they may be persuaded to consider Christianity themselves. However, many times when a Muslim becomes a Christian, their family rejects and disowns them for this choice. Unfortunately, Islam does not have the same compassion, love and concern for those who do not hold with their beliefs that Jesus taught His followers to have.
You need to be sure you are prepared for the implications of your decision. It is certainly possible (especially in your situation) that choosing to follow Jesus may cost you your family relationships. This is a REAL cost, and I don’t want to diminish it. You think to think long and hard about it. Jesus knew that, when He was calling people to follow Him, this would be the case for many. He nonetheless held firm to his claim that you must follow Him, regardless of the cost. Consider these statements He made:
Jesus says that in order to be His disciple (a Christian) you must count the cost of following him, and the cost is EVERYTHING. Turning to Jesus will cost you everything. Martin Luther called it “the great exchange”. You give Jesus all of who you are and He gives you everything you could never be. He may ask you to give up your life as you know it (maybe your dreams, your plans, your time, your possessions, maybe even your family). When you confess Jesus as Lord, you give Him control over everything.
The bible is clear that you must make Jesus LORD of your life. Romans 10:9-10 says you must confess Jesus as Lord. LORD means master, boss, or ruler. You give Him the authority to run your life from now on. You must be willing to follow him wherever he leads, even if that means through death, hardship, family separation, persecution, and even to the cross! That is why Jesus says pick up your cross and follow after me (Matt 10:38). That was very literal for Peter (he was crucified). In fact, all of Jesus disciples were required to give up their lives.
Count the cost. Then give it up! When you are truly ready, hand it over to God. He may take it from you. But, it is so worth it. As He promises in Matt 19:29, He will give you back so much more than you sacrifice!
I know that is a tough decision. You must be sure. I will pray for you that God will give you faith and conviction that Jesus is who He claimed to be, and that He is the only way to salvation. I will pray that God will empower you with strength courage to abandon all and follow after Jesus. Please let me know if there is anything I can do to help you.
God bless,
Jake
July 13, 2015 at 2:58 pm
You’re a disgusting, wretched person for spreading this poisonous filth.
Abandonment is the key to faith? Just not be a person? Give up everything about yourself? Just be a blind godbot? Abandon your friends and family? Put your sky daddy above your own children? You epitomize everything that’s so wrong about religion and especially Christianity.
July 13, 2015 at 4:53 pm
Mario,
I understand you disagree with me. You are free to. I acknowledge and respect that. Name calling, however, will not be tolerated here. It is juvenile and beneath the level of polite intellectual discourse which people on this web page demand, and which I will enforce.
What is more, Ad hominem attacks on my character do not in any way further your argument. In fact, they detract from it. They are a clear sign that the one resulting to inflammatory name calling cannot philosophically or intellectually refute the statements they take issue with, and are left with no recourse but to call the other person childish names. I will not play that game with you or anyone else. You are free to continue discussion here, as long as you can do so in a polite and respectful manner, addressing your critiques to people’s ideas and not directing your attack at their person or character. If you cannot abide by this fair and reasonable stipulation, your future comments will be blocked.
With regard to the content of your attack, it should be clear that the person you are taking issue with is Jesus Christ, not me. All I did was repeat His words. This is an example of why an ad hominem attack is a logical fallacy. I may be a “disgusting, wretched person”. But, since I didn’t even come up with this, attacking me does nothing to refute it. All I am doing is repeating something Jesus, Himself, said. You must address your attack at Jesus Christ. I was quoting directly from Him.
Additionally, you completely missed the point of what I was saying. I never said that a Christian was called to abandon their friends, family and children. What I said is that sometimes they may abandon you. There are situations and cases where when a person chooses to follow Jesus, their family may turn on them and disown them. A Christian doesn’t ever desire this. However, this has happened to many of my friends. It is VERY common when someone converts to Christianity from Islam (which is the case with the person I was writing this comment to). I was warning him that following Jesus may mean his father and family disown him. It is something he needs to go in knowing is a real possibility.
You either completely misunderstood what I was saying, or are intentionally twisting my words, turning them on their head to a meaning I never implied. I can’t be sure which one it is, but either way, you are attacking a straw man.
Jake
July 13, 2015 at 6:22 pm
Thank you again Jake for such a great explanation , Mario doesn’t understand that to many people when you say that you have decided to fallow Jeaus you don’t leave your friends and family they leave you . I wish my family and friends hadn’t abondoned me I did not preach to them I did not tell them they had to live different I simply said that I had become sober and decided to fallow Jesus . And let me tell you if your friends and family are not fallowing Jesus you can throw your address book out no matter how many times you call them just to say hello and tell them you are thinking about them you get voice mail . This may not be true for all people who change their life , they may have family and friends who are happy for them . The verses that Jake quoted are very true to me and my family is not even of another faith they are just nonbelievers ,you find the true strength in Christ when you know he is with you and everyone else has left you behind but you know you are right .
July 14, 2015 at 2:31 pm
I enjoyed the article, however, I’m kind of stumped on the “forgiven past and future sins”. I grew up in a Pentecostal church (Church of God – TN) and had never even heard of the “Once saved, always saved” Baptist movement until fairly recently. I’ve always believed that, even as a Christian (follower of Christ), we have to repent and ask God to forgive us if we sin.
I use the example:
If I go out today and cheat on my husband once. He’ll probably forgive me, but I have to TELL him that I cheated and ask him to forgive me. With the same sin, I have to confess the sin and ask God to forgive me. Even though I already know that he will. Assuming that I’m honestly sorry and not planning to do it again.
Can you tell me where in the Bible it says once you’re forgiven you no long have to repent of sin? It’s been a big topic at our church recently.
Thanks,
Jenn
July 15, 2015 at 5:26 pm
Our son abandoned us!! He told us in an email that God told him it wax time to move on and he was! He has tried for sometime to convince us to be saved and none of his family are for it. I have read and asked questions, I have at times thought and said to him it was a cult. Things I have said about Christianity have upset him and then we can talk and get past it, but now – he has moved on because we choose not to believe! I am so hurt, angry, sad that I will not get to see my grandchildren grow up or be hugged and laugh with our son and his family. You say, and I have passed on to him many times that he can be a believer and still walk with us that believe but will not become one with his faith. Why is he inflicting so much pain on us and himself! Z
July 17, 2015 at 5:25 pm
Jennifer,
Thanks for the question about what is called the doctrine of “Eternal Security” or the “Perseverance of the Saints”. I want to clarify that this is not a “Baptist movement” as you stated. While it is certainly true that Baptists hold this view, it did not originate with them. In fact, the doctrine traces its origin all the way back to the first century. It has been the common and nearly universal position of the Christian Church throughout its 2000+ years! Early theologians (like Agustine of Hippo) maintained that a Christian cannot lose their salvation. Augustine popularized the doctrine of Perseverance of the Saints in the fifth century A.D. The Roman Catholic Church eventually adopted his teaching on this subject as official doctrine. It was the commonly accepted position at the time of the Protestant Reformation. Leaders of the Reformation, such as John Calvin, also accepted and promoted it. It is part of the Westminster Confession of Faith. In this way, Eternal Security has come down into the doctrinal systems of many modern Protestant denominations today. It is only a very modern movement that has rejected this doctrine. The Arminian/Wesleyan/Holiness tradition, and the Assemblies of God that grew out of it, have rejected the belief in eternal security.
You asked, “Can you tell me where in the Bible it says once you’re forgiven you no long have to repent of sin?” However, I think that is a straw man. Those who believe in the doctrine of Eternal Security (as I do) do not believe that a Christian no longer has to repent of sin. Repentance is something that Christians should always be doing. Number 1 on Martin Luther’s 95 Theses was, “When our Lord and Master Jesus Christ said, “Repent” (Mt 4:17), he willed the entire life of believers to be one of repentance.” Christians do not suddenly become perfect. They still sin. When we sin, we always need to repent.
The question is not whether we need to repent or not, the question is does our salvation hang on our repenting. This is where I would say that repentance for a follower of Jesus is not about our salvation, it is about our sanctification (our spiritual growth). We repent to face up to our sin, expose it and turn away from it so that the Holy Spirit can work in us to make us more like Jesus. It is about the gradual process of God chipping away at our sinful selves and conforming us more to the image of His Son.
This is not an all-or-nothing proposition. As I grow in my faith, God continues to reveal to me sin I was not even aware I was committing. The Holy Spirit is at work continually helping Christians grow in our understanding and realization of where we fall short of God’s glorious standard. The more I grow, the more the Holy Spirit shows me I need to grow.
In many ways, I have more to repent of today than I did when I first became a Christian. This is true even though I am certainly more like Jesus now than I was then. Does this mean that I would have gone to hell last year when I did not realize that I had the idolatry problem God revealed to me this year? No, that cannot be. For I know that next year I will look back to now and see other sins I am currently not aware of, either. If I die today will I go to hell because I have not repented of them? Certainly not! The Christian is never, on any day, perfectly fulfilling God’s desire for us. On our best day we are nowhere near Jesus. We all, in every moment, have sin in our life. This is part of our human condition until we are someday perfected when we die (1 Corinthians 15:49). If we are never perfect in this life, we cannot have a theology that requires us to be in a perfect state to be saved.
Fortunately, this is NOT what the bible teaches. You asked where in Scripture this doctrine is presented. Here are a few of the MANY places. . .
Although the phrase “eternal security” does not occur in the Bible, phrases that are equivalent do occur. Phrases such as “everlasting life”, “eternal life”, “eternal salvation”, “eternal inheritance”, “eternal redemption”, etc. occur dozens of times throughout the Bible. It is important to understand that Eternal security is not a separate doctrine from that of eternal life or eternal salvation. It is one and the same. In fact, the only salvation God offers to mankind is eternal (John 3:16). This eternal life doesn’t start when you die. It starts when you are saved (John 5:24, 1 Peter 1:23).
God does not offer probation, He offers salvation. God does not offer a trial period, He offers to completely save and give eternal life to anyone who responds to His invitation to trust Jesus Christ as their only hope of heaven. If you are not saved forever, then you are not saved. God doesn’t TRY to save people, He saves them . . . period (Hebrews 7:25).
If we think about the alternative, that we can lose our salvation, this would mean that keeping our salvation requires our efforts and work. Even if all you are saying is that we must repent for every sin we commit, you are still requiring us to do something to achieve this salvation. Ephesians 2:8-9 refutes this idea:
Notice the complete lack of any statement that this salvation depends on our continual repentance . . . or our continual doing of ANYTHING. Here are a selection of verses that establish this doctrine for us from the bible . . .
[See also John 3:18, 6:35, 37, 51, Col 3:3, and 1 John 5:4]
One of my favorites is that Jesus declares that it is the explicit will of the Father (and thus Christ’s duty) that He lose no believers and to ensure that He raises up all believers on the last day. . .
Also, Jesus promises to give us the Holy Spirit, who will abide in us forever (not just until we sin again) . . .
In addition to this, the believer is secure because of the prayer that Jesus prayed to the Father for us (did the Father not answer this prayer?) . . .
What is more, Paul says that those who believe are sealed with the deposit of the Holy Spirit who GUARANTEES our inheritance. . .
In addition to these clear evidences of the security of believers, I would list the fact that the bible says:
• We are dead to sin (Rom 6:2)
• We are promised to appear with Christ in glory (Col 3:4)
• That our life is identified with Christ’s life now (Col 3:4)
• That the believer is saved by faith and not works, and this faith is a gift from God (Eph 2:8-9, Rom 4:5)
• That salvation is a gift and not earned or deserved (Rom 6:23)
• That our inheritance is imperishable, undefiled, cannot fade away and is kept in heaven for us (1 Peter 1:4)
• That the believer is kept in faith by the power of God (1 Pet 4:5)
• That we are promised to be more than conquerors in Christ Jesus (Rom 8:37)
• That nothing can separate the believer from Christ (Rom 8:38-39)
• That we were foreknown, predestined, called and justified so that we would be conformed to the image of Jesus and one day be glorified (Rom 8:29-30)
• That Christ, Himself, will complete our salvation to the end (Philippians 1:6)
• That the believer is born of imperishable seed (1 Peter 1:23)
• That the believer is perfected forever by one offering (Hebrews 10:14)
• That the believer is made righteous by Christ’s obedience, not theirs (Romans 5:18-19)
• Because all things work together for the good of the believer (Rom 8:28)
• That the believer is rescued from every evil and brought safely into the heavenly kingdom (2 Tim 4:18)
• That God has not appointed the believer to wrath, but to salvation (1 Thes 5:9-10)
• That the believer is a new creation and cannot be remade into the old (Eph 4:24)
• That the Lord will not forsake His saints and will preserve them forever (Psalm 37:38)
• That the new Covenant in His blood is an everlasting covenant (Jer 32:40)
• That the believer has rested from his own works (Heb 4:10)
• That the believer has already (past tense) been redeemed (2 Peter 1:18-19)
• That God choose believers from the beginning to be saved (2 Thes 2:13)
• That God has promised to put all the believers sins away and remember them no more (Heb 10:17)
• That God allows His children to suffer loss of reward in heaven for actions taken on earth instead of punishing them in hell (1 Corinthians 3:11-15)
• That God is able to save and KEEP us (2 Tim 1:12, Jude 1:24)
Hopefully these verses help you see where the doctrine of Eternal Security comes from and why it has been the consistent position of the Church throughout the vast majority of its history.
God bless,
Jake
August 3, 2015 at 12:51 pm
Jake – I see a few things that you stated that do not make sense to me, and have other observations in general. Perhaps you can clarify?
1)How can Jesus be a descendant of King David when his father was not Joseph? Only James could be a TRUE descendant of David no? Jesus was a descendant of GOD and Mary. To deduct otherwise is to assume that lineage was traced on Mary’s side, which was probably impossible since it was not normal for Jewish people to keep record of a woman’s lineage.
2)You stated thousands of witness’s saw the resurrection, but no authors stated they were witnesses to any of this, only that they heard. There are no historical writings saying this occurred outside of the bible, even though we have a lot of historical writings of that time – even from pagans. Name 15 of your thousands of witnesses that stated they saw this?
3) How did Jesus bleed after the Roman’s stabbed him if he was already dead?
4) Who is GOD talking to when he says in Genesis 22 “And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil.” Who is the “us”, That would imply there is more than one deity on GOD’s level no?
5) Why would a GOD create an earth and humans to house a “soul”, when the soul can can know GOD without an earthly body?Seems unneeded does it not?
6) When Mary anointed Jesus with fine oils and rubbed her hair on his feet etc… that was the common Jewish practice for a “soon to be wife” was it not?
7) If you never heard of Jesus, there is the very convenient adage in the new testament that you will still know GOD because, well he is GOD and in all of us. Why then is Jesus even relevant to knowing GOD?
8) There is a difference between spiritual and religious/religion. Spirituality requires no interpretation of a “mans” religion or religious correlation for belief in a GOD. Christianity is a religion because it involves Jesus and “a mans” interpretation of GOD, right/worng as all religions do. If I know there is a GOD, but am not a “Christian, Jewish etc…” nor follow their general “requirements” then I am not following a religion but I AM spiritual.
9)Where did Cain’s wife come from? Was that not his sister? Is that ok in Christianity?
10) Is the bible the word of GOD or man?
11) If the bible is correct where as Adam and Eve where the first people on earth, how did the immediate descendants of Cain learn bronze age techniques of tool making so quickly (within 500 years) when the stone age lasted for tens of thousands of years? Is the bible correct or not correct on this matter?
11) Do you believe that cities cited in ancient stories that currently have no archaeological or other historical source evidence of existence at that time really did exist?
12) In Matthew among others, he quotes both Jesus and Satan directly. How is this possible? Does this mean Jesus told Matthew, who then told the guy, who told the guy who wrote Matthew that this happened verbatim? Please explain these how these quotes between a person and Satan who are alone, say on the highest point, came to fruition exactly? I did not see anything that stated Jesus told me “XYZ” in these portions of the bible.
That’s all for now, thanks
August 4, 2015 at 10:01 am
Ju Ju Beans,
Thanks for the comment. I would be happy to address the questions you brought up. Many of them are not new and have been answered many countless times by theologians and scholars over the past two millennia. I will give each of your many points serious consideration and time in my response, so I hope you will tolerate the length of this reply.
1)How can Jesus be a descendant of King David when his father was not Joseph? Only James could be a TRUE descendant of David no? Jesus was a descendant of GOD and Mary. To deduct otherwise is to assume that lineage was traced on Mary’s side, which was probably impossible since it was not normal for Jewish people to keep record of a woman’s lineage.
Most scholars believe that Jesus was descended from David through both parents, Mary and Joseph. This explains why there are two different genealogies provided in Luke and in Matthew showing the line to David through two different paths. One depicts Mary’s line (in Luke) and the other Joseph’s (in Matthew). Thus, Jesus is descended from David through Mary’s line in the physical sense (of having her genetics) and through Joseph’s line in the legal sense (according to the Jewish legal line of patriarchal succession). So, in every way Jesus was a descendant of David. He had both the blood of David (from David’s son Nathan) as well as the legal linage (from David’s son Solomon), in the Jewish way of thinking.
The vast majority of scholars believe that the genealogy given in Luke’s gospel traces Jesus’ lineage through his mother, Mary. Thus, Heli is the father-in-law of Joseph. This alluded to in the text by the fact that in verse 23 of Luke 3 it says “Jesus…being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph”. This highlights the fact that Joseph was not the true father. Since Luke has already described the virgin birth of Jesus (1:26-38), it is natural for him to list Jesus’ physical descent through her, alerting his readers by the word “supposedly.” Of what value would the genealogy of a supposed father be? Mary is not named in 3:23 because women were not normally listed in either Roman or Jewish genealogies. Also, since Mary seems to be Luke’s source for much of his material on the early years of Jesus, and since the Jewish genealogical records were well preserved, especially among families of Davidic descent, it would be natural for Mary to supply these records to Luke.
As the Gospel of Matthew was written to a Jewish audience (who would have primarily cared about the legal claim to the Davidic line), the author focuses on Jesus’ legal lineage through Joseph. To the Jewish reckoning, blood was not the only way inheritance and legal status was passed. When someone was adopted they were considered in the lineage of their adoptive parents. You can see this in many places in the bible including the fact that it was expected that if a husband died and left a widow without children, his brother would take her as his wife and provide sons for his brother (Deut 25:5, Gen 38:8, Matt 22:24). These sons would be considered descendants of the man who had died, according to Jewish law.
2)You stated thousands of witness’s saw the resurrection, but no authors stated they were witnesses to any of this, only that they heard. There are no historical writings saying this occurred outside of the bible, even though we have a lot of historical writings of that time – even from pagans. Name 15 of your thousands of witnesses that stated they saw this?
To be fair here, I never said “thousands of witnesses”. You are misquoting me. I did say hundreds of witnesses, which is accurate. Whether it is hundreds or thousands, is pretty irrelevant at that point. That’s a lot of witnesses!
Actually, you are incorrect, we do have the eyewitness testimony. This is exactly what the bible contains. It is important to remember that the bible is not a typical book written by a single author. It is actually a compilation of the earliest, best and most trusted eyewitness accounts of the life of Jesus. These were separate accounts of people who were there, writing what they saw. It wasn’t until generations later that these individual accounts were collected, titled as one volume and given the name “The New Testament”. Before this they were nothing but eyewitness testimony. These accounts were selected because they were the most reliable. They were chosen because they were written by people who were actually there and were the earliest writings. Historians know that myth takes time to develop. Historians know that accounts written very near the events they describe are the most reliable.
The gospel of Mark was written with 16 years of the death of Jesus, while all of the disciples were still alive and could validate and testify to its validity. Mark (as well as the other synoptic gospels: Luke and Matthew) draw from another source document (called Q) that was written within a couple years of Jesus’ resurrection. This is amazingly reliable firsthand testimony.
The problem with your question is the bias you betray against the eyewitness accounts recorded in the bible. You ask what sources we have outside the bible. But, why are they suspect just because later generations collected these eyewitness accounts and gave them the name “The bible”. It doesn’t change what they are. Why would we trust later and less reputable accounts over the earliest and best accounts? Here is a short video where William Lane Craig explains this in a question/answer session: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaAWj9yv6DY
To answer your challenge for me to list 15 eyewitnesses, here are 15 people who claimed to have seen Jesus post-resurrection, according to our earliest and best historical documentation available:
Andrew
Bartholomew / Nathanael
James, the Elder
James, the Lesser or Younger
John
Jude / Thaddeus
Matthew / Levi
Simon Peter
Philip
Simon the Zealot
Thomas
Stephen
Paul
Cleopus
Mary Magdalene
Consider this powerful firsthand account written by Paul in his first letter to the Corinthian church. This is one of the earliest eyewitness accounts written following Jesus’ resurrection. Historians have concluded it was written within 20 years of the death of Jesus, while many of the eyewitnesses were still alive.
You say, “There are no historical writings saying this occurred outside of the bible…” This is simply false. You really need to look into the facts here. Even if we were to arbitrarily throw out the bible as credible historical documentation (which we have no legitimate reason to do), there is still MUCH historical documentation (external to the bible) of this event. In fact, these events are attested to by no less than 20 extra-biblical authors! Even if you want to be biased and throw out any of these extra-biblical authors who were Christians, there are still plenty of extra-biblical sources. Here are 9:
Josephus (Jewish historian)
Tacitus (considered the most accurate Roman historian)
Pliny the Younger (Roman Politician)
Phlegon (freed slave)
Lucian (Greek satirist)
Celsus (Roman philosopher)
Mara bar Serapion (prisoner awaiting execution)
Seutonius
Thallus
There is simply no denying the historical record of Jesus. It is too robust. As I have repeatedly said here, there are as many non-Christian writers that talk about Jesus existence and what he did than there are who mention the Roman Emperor at the time (Tiberius Caesar)! Even the enemies of Christianity at the time write that these events occurred. If you deny the accounts of Jesus, why believe that Alexander the Great really existed? There is more documentation for Jesus than him. If you can so easily dismiss the clear weight of historical evidence here without requiring yourself to present any evidence to refute it, you should question your objectivity. Consider this extra-biblical quote from Josephus, as Jewish historian (non-Christian) who had no motivation to falsify the history surrounding Jesus:
You can read more on the amazing amount of textual support for the New Testament in this blog I wrote: http://missionarybrewer.wordpress.com/2013/07/08/can-the-new-testament-really-be-trusted/
3) How did Jesus bleed after the Roman’s stabbed him if he was already dead?
I am assuming you are referring to John 19:34, where it says that blood and water flowed out of Jesus when the Roman soldier stabbed Jesus with a spear to make sure he was dead? If you are not referring to this, can you please be more specific?
If you are referring to this, this has actually been medically substantiated. There is a double-walled sac, called the pericardium, which surrounds the heart and the roots of the great vessels. It encloses the pericardial cavity that contains pericardial fluid (consisting of both blood and a water-like fluid). Jesus was undoubtedly suffering from hypovolemic shock (which is caused by extreme loss of blood) from his brutal flogging and injuries from the nails. Prior to death, the sustained rapid heartbeat caused by hypovolemic shock caused fluid to gather in the sack around the heart and around the lungs. This gathering of fluid in the membrane around the heart is called pericardial effusion, and the fluid gathering around the lungs is called pleural effusion. This explains why, after Jesus died and a Roman soldier thrust a spear through Jesus’ side (probably His right side, piercing both the lungs and the heart), blood and water came from His side just as John recorded in his Gospel.
4) Who is GOD talking to when he says in Genesis 22 “And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil.” Who is the “us”, That would imply there is more than one deity on GOD’s level no?
No. Actually, this falls completely in line with the Christian doctrine of the Trinity; that God is one being composed of three distinct persons. Jesus frequently talked about “us” when referring to the Father and Himself. It is actually religious Jews that have the most difficult time with your question, since they do not recognize different persons within the singular Godhead. Christianity is thus uniquely suited to fit how God describes Himself throughout the whole of the Scriptures.
5) Why would a GOD create an earth and humans to house a “soul”, when the soul can can know GOD without an earthly body?Seems unneeded does it not?
The simple answer to your question is that God must have thought that there is merit and value in physicality, in substance. You are here presuming that “earthly bodies” are inferior to a disembodied, spiritual form. While it may be “unneeded”, in the sense that a spirit may not require a physical body to exist, this does not at all imply it is better off that way.
There are countless things that God created that are unnecessary, but good. Humans do not require the ability to see the full spectrum of color. We could be like other animals that see in shades of a few colors. For that matter, there is no requirement that humans perceive and recognize beauty at all. There is no reason I should marvel at a sunset, for example. I may not require taste buds that provide me with pleasurable experiences when I eat, but this doesn’t mean God shouldn’t have given them to me.
God did not create the minimally necessary world. He created the best possible one. It is the claim of Christianity that the body enhances and is beneficial to the spirit (or soul). You are revealing a Gnostic way of thinking; that the physical body is evil or detrimental to the spirit. This runs counter the Christian idea that the body enhances the Spirit. God created the physical world (including the human body) in its uncorrupted form and said “it is very good” (Gen 1:31). Is it really so hard to understand that having a physical body opens one up to experiences not possible without one? It is not possible to see how this could be beneficial?
Revelation 6:9-10 tells us that there are currently saints in heaven longing to be reunited with their glorified spiritual bodies. The intention of God has always been to give humans perfected souls to accompany perfected bodies. This will occur when He returns. Heaven will not be a spiritual place, but a physical one: a new heaven and a new earth. Those who follow Jesus will have glorified physical bodies and be able to experience physical contact, eat, experience pleasure, etc. They will be able to do so without the polluting sinful desires, degradation and pain we experience now. These bodies will not have the same limitations that our current hardware has. We see the first glimpse of this glorified body in the resurrected Jesus. He is the first to possess one. This is definitely superior to the disembodied soul.
6) When Mary anointed Jesus with fine oils and rubbed her hair on his feet etc… that was the common Jewish practice for a “soon to be wife” was it not?
No, not to my knowledge. I have never heard such a thing. I could not find one source that provided any support for that idea, either. There is no account in the bible of any woman doing that as a sign of upcoming marriage. I really don’t see what you are getting at here. Are you trying to assert they were married? If you read the actually account in John 12:1-8, I think you can get a pretty clear idea of what is going on and it had nothing to do with a marriage engagement. If they had been engaged, the disciples would not have responded as they did.
7) If you never heard of Jesus, there is the very convenient adage in the new testament that you will still know GOD because, well he is GOD and in all of us. Why then is Jesus even relevant to knowing GOD?
There is no such “adage” in the New Testament that I know of (and I know it very well). Perhaps you can tell me exactly where the NT says this? What the NT does say is this. . .
Contrary to your claim that the bible says there is no need to know Jesus, this passage makes it clear that all people are under God’s wrath and stand without excuse because the truth of the existence of God is plain in all of creation, and we choose to worship things we created instead of the one who created all. Paul then goes on to explain that it is only through Jesus that one can escape the wrath described above.
8) There is a difference between spiritual and religious/religion. Spirituality requires no interpretation of a “mans” religion or religious correlation for belief in a GOD. Christianity is a religion because it involves Jesus and “a mans” interpretation of GOD, right/wrong as all religions do. If I know there is a GOD, but am not a “Christian, Jewish etc…” nor follow their general “requirements” then I am not following a religion but I AM spiritual.
The string that unravels what you are saying here is the phrase “man’s interpretation of God”. You claim that “spirituality” doesn’t involve man’s interpretation of God, but “religion” does. You say, “If I know there is a GOD, but am not a “Christian, Jewish etc…” nor follow their general “requirements” then I am not following a religion but I AM spiritual.” However, what is this if not an interpretation of God? Your interpretation of God is that he exists but the Jews, Christians, Muslims, etc. have got him wrong. Your interpretation may not require you to follow “their requirements”, but you are setting your own by your definition of what satisfies as your spirituality vs. religion. You may have a different interpretation of God than they do (that he is not Jesus, that Muhammad was not his prophet, that he is not Allah or Yahweh, that he doesn’t care about obeying requirements, etc.), but this is no less of an interpretation of God than the others. You are claiming that God is a certain way and not like other ways. Thus, you are interpreting God.
Therefore your definition of the distinction between your vague spiritualism and religion doesn’t hold. All you are doing is inventing your own religion to suite your personal tastes instead of accepting an existing one. You are creating God in your own image.
The more pertinent question is how can you know you are right about your interpretation of God? You have peppered me with questions about how I can back up my claim that Jesus is God (which is fine). But, what about your claim? Can you substantiate it with evidence? What evidence can YOU offer? What archeology do you have that validates the existence of this god who apparently cares nothing about what we do? Why did this god you invented create physical bodies to house souls?
It seems to me there is a double-standard here. At least Christianity has the eyewitness accounts documented. At least the historical record backs up the story of Jesus. At least there is archeology that can substantiate it. At least Christianity has fulfilled prophecy that testifies to its validity. This is because Christianity actually makes factual claims. It claims that people, events and places actually existed in history. It gives us tests to check it by. It has substance to it. Does your belief about God offer such validity checks?
9)Where did Cain’s wife come from? Was that not his sister? Is that ok in Christianity?
This isn’t exactly a new question. Here’s an excerpt from The Encyclopedia of Biblical Difficulties by Gleason and Archer Jr.
On a side note, the reason the sisters are not mentioned is that the Hebrew’s were a highly patriarchal society, with the lineage tracked through the male heir. This is a similar reason to why Mary is not listed in genealogy of Jesus given in Luke. All of the genealogies in Genesis and elsewhere in the Old Testament show this. Their absence from the text should not imply their non-existence. This has been the consistent interpretation of the text throughout the history of the Jewish faith.
Brothers and sisters mating at first was the necessary plan for humanity to expand and propagate. It should be noted that regardless of whether a person believes the bible or not they likely hold that this occurred. Even by the Darwinian theory of evolution, you need a mating pair of new homo-sapiens to pass on their genes. The only way for this to occur would be for children to mate. Unless you believe that a whole tribe of homo-sapiens evolved simultaneously (which is immensely improbable), you must acknowledge this fact.
Just because this was necessary for the human race to get started, does not at all imply that this was God’s long-term plan. Since, according to the Christian view of creation, the world was created perfect initially, and has been in a gradual state of decline since, it is quite possible that the genetic flaws that come as a result of close relatives procreating today were not present then. The first humans were created without genetic defects. Inbreeding among their offspring did not lead to defects until many generations later as spontaneous mutations accumulated. At that point, God had instituted laws against incest to minimize the expression of genetic mutations that had developed within our species. As was explained earlier, when God began to reveal his law to mankind these types of relationships became forbidden.
10) Is the bible the word of GOD or man?
Is this a trick question? The answer is both. It is the claim of Christianity that the bible is the words of God conveyed in the language and writing style of the human writers. If I were to sit in a room and tell you a story about my life, after I finish you could easily pick up a pen and paper and write down your summary of what I said. In a similar way, the writers of the New Testament are recording the information that God conveyed to them. Consider 2 Peter 1:21 . . .
11a) If the bible is correct where as Adam and Eve where the first people on earth, how did the immediate descendants of Cain learn bronze age techniques of tool making so quickly (within 500 years) when the stone age lasted for tens of thousands of years? Is the bible correct or not correct on this matter?
First off, it wasn’t the “immediate descendants of Cain” who the bible says had bronze tools (See Genesis 4:17-22). It was one man, Tubal-cain, who was a minimum of 6 generations from Cain (Cain->Enoch->Irad-> Mehujael-> Methushael->Lamech->Tubal-cain). Even if we assume this is a complete list of ancestry for Tubal-cain (which is very unlikely), given the lifespan of these early people, this was much longer than the 500 years you mention. However, this doesn’t make up the whole difference in the time gap from the Stone Age to the Bronze Age.
There is much reason to believe there were actually many more generations between the people listed in the text. This is because in Hebrew when it is said that John is the son of Michael, this doesn’t necessarily mean the direct son. He could be his grandson, or great grandson, or even great-great-great-great grandson. The Hebrew word used in all these instances is the same. The authors commonly only list the highlights of a person’s lineage, selecting the figures that were significant for some reason relevant to the point they are making. We can see this being done elsewhere in the bible where one author omits many names given by another author. The intent is not to give a complete timeline or family history, it is to establish the lines through which curses or promises are passed. I could write much more on this topic, but I would encourage reading further here. Someone else has already done a good job of covering it in the four-part article linked above.
In addition, we need to notice that the bible specifically calls out that it was only this one guy, Tubal-Cain who was working with bronze and iron then, not everyone. In archeology, the birth of the Bronze and Iron Ages is defined as those dates when bronze and iron manufacture became extensive enough to leave behind substantial quantities of artifacts. It is likely that cultivation of crops occurred on small farms long before the Neolithic era (approx. 12,000 years ago and part of the late Stone Age) and thus didn’t leave behind discoverable signatures of large-scale cultivation. Similarly, some isolated examples of small blacksmith shops likely much predated the textbook date for the beginning of the Bronze Age when evidence for large-scale manufacture of bronze products arose.
To make a final point, I will quote Dr. Hugh Ross . . .
Since these early civilizations were in such a continual state of fluctuation, war and violence, it is not at all implausible that such technological advancements were developed and lost several times before they became widespread enough to leave a significant archeological footprint.
11b) Do you believe that cities cited in ancient stories that currently have no archaeological or other historical source evidence of existence at that time really did exist?
I don’t really know what cities you are specifically referring to. Most all of them do have archeological evidence showing that people lived there at the times described in the bible. In fact, scientist are beginning to change their position to align with the biblical account that humans originated in the Middle East instead of Africa, based on recent archeological findings (updated info here).
I believe that archeology (like all science) is an ever-evolving discipline (as is evidenced by the example I just cited). Certainly there are cities that existed that we have not yet discovered. Otherwise we would not continue to discover new ones all the time (and we do). What would be foolish is to think that the snapshot we have of archeology today represents the sum-total of every city that has ever existed. No archeologist believes that, otherwise they’d go home and stop trying to get grants for digs. Therefore, the question you asked is not really that relevant. What is relevant to know is the fact that there has never been a single archeological excavation that has uncovered evidence that refutes the history recoded in the bible.
Since you bring up archeology, there is a massive amount of archeological evidence that you must not be aware of here that affirms and supports the history set forth in the bible. This evidence is amazing. Many of these people, places, and events were not described ANYWHERE except in the bible before they were discovered by archeologists. Here is just a short list:
The city of Jordan’s walls crumbling exactly as described in the bible
The city of Nineveh (Only mentioned in the bible and believed to be mythical by historians and archeologists until it was discovered)
Herod’s temple
Early synagogue in Capernaum
Pool of Siloam
Pool of Bethesda
Pilate inscription in Caesarea
Remains of crucified man
Peter’s house
Jacob’s well
I find it very interesting that the bible alone has withstood the scrutiny of archeological investigation while none of the other religions documents can claim the same. For example, the book of Mormon makes wild claims that there was a race of white men in North America that had an extremely advanced society. The Mormon Church has spent millions funding excavations to uncover any evidence of this civilization and has totally failed. Recent excavation of early Muslim mosques from about 670 AD shows that prayer was not towards Mecca as the modern Quran text states. This is verified by written accounts of that day as well.
I have written much about this subject already. I encourage you to take a look at this blog post I wrote. Please take a look there is so much more info here that I can’t put in this response: https://missionarybrewer.wordpress.com/2011/01/06/does-archeological-evidence-support-the-history-recorded-in-the-bible/
12) In Matthew among others, he quotes both Jesus and Satan directly. How is this possible? Does this mean Jesus told Matthew, who then told the guy, who told the guy who wrote Matthew that this happened verbatim? Please explain these how these quotes between a person and Satan who are alone, say on the highest point, came to fruition exactly? I did not see anything that stated Jesus told me “XYZ” in these portions of the bible.
Yes, Jesus likely told Matthew this. This may not be overtly stated, but the implication is obvious to an objective reader. Matthew (as well as the rest of the disciples) spent years with Jesus, constantly with him. There is much Jesus told them that isn’t written in the Gospels, obviously. How did they know the story of Jesus’ birth or what happened at the temple when He was 12? It is clear they discussed these things. Also, they had access to Jesus’ mother, Mary, who was among the followers of Jesus after His death and resurrection (Acts 1:14). Luke’s account obviously weighs heavy on her testimony, as he explains at the beginning that he interviewed all the relevant witnesses (Lk 1:1-2).
Additionally, as I stated earlier it is the claim of Christianity that the writers of the Gospels (and the rest of the bible) were inspired by the Holy Spirit. Jesus had foretold that the Holy Spirit would come and would both teach them new things and remind them of what Jesus had said to them (John 14:26). Also, after Jesus’ resurrection, He spent an additional 40 days with the disciples interpreting the Scriptures and how they pointed to Him, clarifying and explaining everything He had taught before (Lk 24:27). During this post-resurrection time, the bible says Jesus “opened their minds to understand” (Lk 24:45-47). Since the writers of the NT had access to this divine knowledge, it is not surprising that they know things that happened behind the scenes.
Also, Matthew most likely wrote Matthew. Why would you claim he didn’t? What evidence can you provide that he didn’t? Those who knew Matthew circulated this writing attesting to its authenticity. The earliest traditions of the church are unanimous in attributing the first Gospel to Matthew. They were much closer to the source and have a much better idea about the authorship than we can 2000+ years removed from it. All of the disciples and their immediate followers used it. Paul quotes from it in his letters. If it wasn’t Matthew who wrote it, who else did and how can you be sure? There is simply no reason to conclude anyone other than Matthew was the author.
The earliest and most important of these traditions for the authorship of the gospel comes from the second century in the writings of Papias, bishop of Hierapolis in Asia Minor (c. a.d. 135), and Irenaeus, bishop of Lyons in Gaul (c. 175). Because these early church leaders had either direct or indirect contact with the apostolic community, they would have been very familiar with the Gospels’ origins. Moreover, no competing traditions now exist (if they ever did) attributing Matthew’s Gospel to any other author. If Matthew did not write the book, it is hard to see why the false ascription would bear the name of a relatively obscure apostle when more well-known and popular figures could have been chosen (e.g., Philip, Thomas, or James).
I sincerely hope these explanations have been helpful to you. I would be happy to discuss further, if you would like. The evidence for Jesus is powerful and compelling. I am confident that if you objectively look into it closely, you will conclude that same.
God bless,
Jake
August 7, 2015 at 12:02 am
Thank you such a wonderful and inspiring commentary! You know how the devil likes to whisper lies in to your soul and make you feel you aren’t really saved? That you’re not (there’s that self effort word) DOING enough? Jesus directed me to your website to remind me that in my weakness He is my strength. I am very grateful to Him for guiding me to Your website. I am leaving a comment to encourage you, my family member in Christ because it is a very well written piece and I can plainly see that you are full of the Spirit. I shall be saving this article and directing others to it as a reminder which we all need from time to time. It is so good I am hoping that if I show it to some unbelieving loved ones, they too will “see” and be healed of their blindness. May God bless you abundantly. Take care my friend and keep up the good work for the kingdom by trusting in Him, as you are. ❤️
September 3, 2015 at 7:43 pm
Dear Jake … this is an old blog, but THANK YOU from the bottom of my heart. Your sensible dialogue with each person is so uplifting. I too am struggling with the fact that since I was a young child, I have believed in Jesus as my Savior … as you have described … but always I fall away, am stubborn and do my “own thing”. I feel that that Holy Spirit has never truly changed my “heart” to follow/obey Him … as I pick myself up, then fail time and again for years. It makes me wonder about my salvation, except for the fact that I truly believe. I don’t understand why I never completely change, even when I want and pray to.
laugh, and I’m “old” now.
Still … thank you for this site.
September 6, 2015 at 6:29 am
Thank you for this post!
September 16, 2015 at 1:13 am
So true. God bless you.
September 19, 2015 at 5:45 pm
I have a hard time believing that a man came down from heaven to save people in only one part of the world when there are people of all colors around the corners of the globe. So if his message doesn’t reach others around the world during his time on earth or even before his time then all those innocent people would’ve perished in hell according to this. How friendly this God truly is to only have one way to heaven. There are a lot of mysteries within our life time and I do believe that there is a creator, but we all are viewing his existence and messages in all the wrong ways because every message is influenced by our fellow man. God is with us all and to be honest, a lot of us are going to hell because no one truly sees the light.
September 20, 2015 at 6:09 am
This is so good! Thank you for all your words—it is exactly what I have been trying to explain to an atheist friend of mine. Would you mind if I linked to this on my blog? God bless!
September 23, 2015 at 12:22 pm
Please good look at the def of religion , Christianity checks every box and the bible refers to itself as a religion . Finally if Christianity is not a religion then please pay taxes because you would be no longer tax exempt
September 24, 2015 at 8:35 am
Lindsey,
Please feel free to use this in whatever way is helpful. You may certainly link here, if you would like.
God bless,
Jake
September 24, 2015 at 8:44 am
Jerad,
I have certainly looked a great deal at the many and diverse dictionary definitions for the word religion. I have also gone back-and-forth a good deal with people here in these comments above highlighting how my definition certainly falls within the broad scope of the many ways this word is used. I have determined that such debates are fruitless and I will no longer have them. If you are really interested in how I would respond to your claim, please read some of my comments above. With regard to your claim that if Christianity is not a religion that churches should pay tax, this just reveals that you are simply ignorant about why churches are tax exempt. It has nothing to do with being a “religion”. It is because they are charitable organizations (not for profit) similar to the Lions Club or the Boys and Girls Clubs of America. These organizations are also tax exempt but are in no way religious. Please see comment #16 where I specifically answered this already.
God bless,
Jake
September 24, 2015 at 11:19 am
Dear “Sorry Bud”,
Please don’t be sorry. I am not. It is certainly fine with me that you have a hard time believing and accepting the claim of Christianity. This is very much expected. It’s a bold claim. In fact, it’s a scandalous claim. The bible even says that it is “foolishness” to the ears of those who are living their life in rebellion to God. The bible calls the story of the gospel a “stumbling block” on which people trip over. It is intended to make you trip. It is intended to be the dividing line by which many will fall to their own destruction, by their own choice.
That being said, I certainly hope that you don’t trip over it. I hope that you will not trust and rely so much on your own narrow way of looking at the world and will entertain the possibility that God may see things differently than you and may have a purpose for this whole story in which you and your opinions are of very, very small consequence.
The problem with the objection you raise is that it is entirely based on a faulty premise. Your objection hinges around the idea that the Christian God only revealed the way to be saved in one place in the world, to one people, at one time, and “all those innocent people” who do not get this message will perish in hell. The problem here is your assumption that the default condition of people is innocent. This statement reveals your very human, limited perspective. Why do you assume people are innocent?
The fact is that God has revealed himself in two ways: What we call “General Revelation” and “Specific Revelation”. You only mentioned “Specific Revelation” in your comment (Jesus coming to the Nation of Israel to show us God) but you ignored “General Revelation”.
General Revelation is what can be clearly determined about God by anyone who honestly and objectively looks around at the world and creation. These are things that are just evident from the facts of creation. For example, we can know that, since nothing can come from nothing, there must be a transcendent, being that exists outside of (and independent of) the material universe and can thus act to create it. This being must by definition be supremely powerful and supremely knowledgeable. He must be timeless, space-less, immaterial and not bound by the laws of nature (since all of these things were created by him when the universe began).
Additionally, we have no concrete basis to found objective morality in, apart from a source capable of establishing the definition of good and evil. Apart from this external source for morality, there is truly no such thing as an objective (unchangeable) standard for what is good and what is evil. Apart from this God we know must exist, we have no basis from which to explain why we all know that the Holocaust was actually evil (not just that you don’t like it, but it was Ok for the Germans because it was legal and the Nazis felt differently than us). If it is really evil to kill Jews, rape children or hang African Americans, then we must account for the objective source of this standard. Obviously, the only way we can do this is if there is a source for it. If it is true that good and evil are concrete things that we don’t make them up, then this means this standard is not invented by us, but predates us. If morality is not just a figment of our minds (which is an unlivable position), then it requires that there is a source of supreme good from which this morality is derived.
If this is true (and it is clearly evident from the created world that it is), then there is an amazing implication for us: This transcendent, immaterial, timeless, space-less, supremely powerful, supremely knowledgeable, supremely good creator of us has moral expectations of us. He has built in these expectations into our very nature in a way that is different than any other animal in the world. We have a conscience. We know, in our hearts, the difference between right and wrong (at least to some degree). And, if we are honest, we also know we all fall short of this all the time. We know we don’t live up to this standard. We know we choose to go against this conscience all the time.
Which gets back to my initial observation about your claim and my question to you: why do you assume the default condition of people in the world is innocent? Observable reality shouts otherwise. Notice I haven’t needed to bring in Jesus or Christianity at all here. I am just drawing obvious conclusions from an objective look around us. This much should be clear to someone honestly seeking truth just from General Revelation. We inherently know that the world is not as it should be. We are surrounded by evil, and we long to see it righted. Wars, atrocities, murders, rapes, gun violence, sex-trafficking, drug abuse, child kidnappings, corruption, corporate greed…it’s everywhere. We see evil and we know that we are violating our built in knowledge of good and evil. But the sickness is much deeper than these headline-worthy actions. We are all complicit. We are all stained by it. Most people fail to realize the truth that we all commit evil, everyday. The combined evil that is committed by mankind is nothing but the summation of countless small actions by individuals which violate our internal moral compass. We all have committed (and still commit) actions that harm ourselves and others. Yes, we may not all be murderers, but we all chose everyday to go our way and not God’s. Thus, we all deserve punishment…not just Hitler, Mussolini, and Ted Bundy. The real question we should be asking is why is God being so merciful to us?
Instead of following this General Revelation to its logical and required conclusion and seeking after the God it reveals must exist, humans have rebelled against this idea. In the bible Paul says that people choose to suppress this obvious truth. He says that even though God’s visible attributes (His eternal power and divine nature), can be clearly perceived from the things He has made, we refused to give Him the honor, praise and thanks He deserves and have exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and objects of nature. Even though it was evident that God was transcendent and above creation, every human society has invented our own created objects of worship and given their devotion to these things instead of God. We have worshiped the sun and moon, the stars and gods of our own invention made in the shape of animals, birds and reptiles. We have created flawed, human-like, demigods in human form (like the Norse, Hindu, Greek and Roman gods) who display none of the attributes necessary for the God revealed to us in nature.
Modern man is no different. Instead of worshiping fish, reptiles, animals or celestial objects we worship another created object: ourselves. Our narcissism is immense as we live our lives with the ultimate goal if doing whatever gives us pleasure. We worship our own bodies in sexual indulgence that resists the clear General Revelation of the way things are designed to work. We worship our own minds and supposed knowledge over and above what God has showed us. Like Paul says, “claiming to be wise we became fools”. We trust in what we think we can know from “science” over the words of God. We revere our own opinions and trust in them above the authority of God to set up the world how He chooses (as you have done here with your comment). All of this is nothing other than rebellion against the God evident by General Revelation.
Thus, Paul rightly concludes that we are without excuse. We are not innocent, as you claim. No person in any tribe in the world will be able to stand before God and claim the excuse that they never heard about Jesus and had no idea that there was a God out there who had expectations and moral requirements on them. No person will be able to say that they had no idea they were violating these requirements. Their conscience will convict them. General Revelation will be enough, even without the teaching of Jesus Christ.
Even though every culture in the world chose to reject the true God and invent their own man-made objects of worship, God didn’t want to leave us there with no hope. In his abundant mercy, He chose to make a way for us to overcome our state. He did this through the Specific Revelation of Jesus Christ.
By the very nature of Specific Revelation it has to be in one place, at one time. So, God chose a very intentional place and time to reveal the truth. Think about the historical significance of when and where Jesus came. He came to a unique place in the world (the geographical, political, and cultural center of world). He came to earth at a very unique time in human history. He came at a time when Rome had finally civilized the world, established relative peace, and built roads connecting all parts of it, so the message could be rapidly spread. Jesus came at a time when language had been greatly harmonized so the message could be shared. Jesus came at a time when historians were beginning to record events that occurred and could document the miracles and the resurrection, so that there would be impartial and unbiased historical conformation of these facts. All this was to ensure that this message would be spread throughout the whole world, such that no cultural can claim that they did not have the opportunity to hear the eyewitness testimony.
It is certainly true that many people died without ever hearing the message of Jesus Christ. But this does NOT make them innocent. We all stand guilty and God is not required to do anything to save any of us. God was acting well within His rights and authority when He completely destroyed all life on earth (except for 8 people and some animals) with the great flood in Genesis 6. He would be well within His rights to allow all humans to suffer that same fate today. But in His mercy, He decided to add to His General Revelation and step into our mess Himself and provide us with the most amazing and unexpected form of Specific Revelation imaginable…God chose to take on our human weakness and live as one of us so that He could demonstrate the way He expects us to live, and to take our punishment upon Himself so that God could remain just and we could be forgiven. He chose to do this in such a way that it could be recorded by eyewitnesses for all posterity and spread quickly to the far reaches of the known world. He then commanded his followers to take this message everywhere, to the ends of the earth, so that there will be people from every tribe, tongue and nation who will respond and follow Jesus.
I would encourage you to read comment #83 above where I talked more about this. Particularly watch the embedded video from Pastor David Platt where he addresses your objection. Please watch that video.
The question could be raised what does God do if someone was genuinely seeking the truth and was searching for the true God as reveled by General Revelation but didn’t have the Specific Revelation of the knowledge of the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ? The short answer is I don’t know. I am not sure that such a person actually exists. I know that before I was saved I was certainly NOT that person, myself. I was in clear and undeniable rebellion against Him. What I do know is that even if such a person were seeking for the true God, they are still not innocent. They have still sinned against God like all of us and stand deserving of hell before a holy and just God. Thus, they have no claim to a right to be saved.
Now I’m not God (obviously) and God may choose to have mercy on such a person. What I can trust and rely on is that God is good and just. He knows the heart of every person in the world. He will act justly toward everyone. I know of clear cases in which Jesus Christ, Himself, has appeared to individuals in places where missionaries have not yet preached the gospel. We know this because there are many examples of when the missionaries finally do arrive, they natives tell them of the God-man who appeared to them with scars in His hands and feet and told them to believe what the missionaries He was sending would tell them. This is happening in India in particular right now. I know of many devout Muslims that are having visions of Jesus Christ speaking directly to them telling them to abandon Islam and follow Jesus. It seems like I hear another testimony of this occurring every month. The point is, God has it under control and He is just and good. I can trust Him.
The last point I want to make to you is that your objection doesn’t even apply to you! You are not some native in a village somewhere in Asia who has had no opportunity to hear of about what Jesus did. This objection is really a smokescreen. It takes the focus off your guilt and sin. Your issue is not the “innocent” man in Africa who has never heard the gospel. You are not that man. You HAVE heard the gospel. The question is what are YOU going to do with it? The important question for you to answer is: are the claims of Jesus and the bible true? Regardless of how one answers the question about the person who has never heard the gospel, the question that really matters is: is Christianity true? If it is, the answer to the question about the man in Africa is not all that relevant to you. If God exists and has revealed Himself to us, and if Christ is the only way to God, then the question may puzzle us, but it won’t change the truth of the Christian message.
I wish you the best and hope that you will honestly seek for the God reveled to us by this amazing creation.
God bless,
Jake
September 29, 2015 at 2:06 pm
I am truly without words, for how much your blog and comments have touched upon my heart.
I became a Christian 2 years ago, after my marriage fell apart. At the time i felt lost, not sure which way to turn, who to call upon, whether there was anyone that could help me to restore my marriage. As it was, my marriage never got restored, however in finding God, i also found myself and the direction i had lost. I had been a blind man walking in the forest for too long, stumbling my way through life, doing things my way, gratifying myself for my successes, and not living the life God had intended.
It hasn’t been an easy road becoming a Christian, for the first 6 months, i was going to Church on Sunday, and then living life the way i had always lived it, every other day… It took me time to let go of the past, and look to God for direction, to start to have relationship with God, and seek guidance and wisdom from him.
It took me a while to come to the realisation that Gods word is all about Love, either his Love for us and our well being, or for our Love of our neighbors well-being.
Only when you walk a mile in someone else’s shoes, do you realise the impact your words and actions have on them.
The other thing i have realised is that, things with God happen at the right time, not in our time. We live in a world, of instant information, instant cures (medicine), instant gratification (pornography), instant food (takeaways), that when it comes to God, we apply the same rules, and expect instant results.. The thing is, God prepares us for the plans he has for our lives, he wants us to be capable of picking up, what he lays down.
Professional athletes, don’t just decide over night they want to be good at what they do, and through some sort of magic are now good at it, Tiger Woods, Serena Williams as examples, were playing and training as Children, decades before they were able to pick up, what was placed in front of them.. Sometimes, when it feels like God isn’t answering our prayers, it can be because we aren’t prepared to listen to what he has to say, we don’t want to put our hearts on the line to grow, we don’t want to step out of our comfort zone, to try something new, we just expect it to miraculously happen.
So from a new Christian, someone who has suffered from depression and divorce, don’t give up on the Hope that God gives us, because sometimes we give up when we are so close to revelation.
Keep up the awesome Blog…
October 7, 2015 at 4:23 am
I am blesses in reading your paper! God bless you!
October 7, 2015 at 6:39 pm
All my life i believed that if you believe in Jesus Christ as your savior, the Son of God, you would go to heaven. My brother whom which i respect and trust brought to my attention that if you do not repent and ask for forgivness for your sins you might not get in yo heaven. To have my own brother look at me and tell me I might spend eternity in hell for not repenting frightened me. I still believe that if you accept Jesus Christ you will go to heaven but i do sometimes ask myself if ive been good enough to get into heaven, i know i will never be worthy bit through Jesus Christ i do not have to be. If it were true that you got to heaven by being good wouldnt every Christian be a mercinary and spend ever moment of there lives dedicated to being good? I was also told by my mother that when I die I will be punished for my sins, maybe not with hell but with the way i feel when i have to account for them in front of God. So ii guess mu question is, what does the bible tell us about our sins and how we might or might not be punished for them?
October 12, 2015 at 2:26 pm
Josie,
Thanks for commenting. Be thankful to your brother for his willingness to be honest with you, even when you didn’t want to hear it. He is certainly correct that it takes repentance for a person to enter into a relationship with Jesus and to go to heaven. Actually, you both are right. Yes, you must have faith in Jesus Christ, but this faith needs to be more than mental belief. Faith implies trust and reliance upon.
Paul says in Romans 10 that in order to be saved a person must believe in their heart that Jesus was raised from the dead and confess with their mouth that He is Lord. There is a lot contained in that small passage. Paul says that you need to believe certain truths about who Jesus is and what He did, but it can’t stop there. He must be made LORD of your life. These truths you believe must make you come to the place where you realize your way is wrong and agree to go God’s way. You must realize that you need Him and without Him you are lost. You have to come to the place where you surrender control of your life to God. This is what it means to confess Him as “Lord”. Lord means boss or ruler.
Repentance is required and encompassed by this. The word “repent” means to have a change of mind about your life. It means you make a mental “U-turn” and decide to stop going your way and turn your life over to Jesus. One cannot accept that Jesus died on the cross for their sins if they have not faced up to the fact that they are a sinner and need a savior. Thus, faith must involve repentance. Additionally, one cannot proclaim Jesus is the Lord of their life if they have not repented from going their own way and turned over control to Him. So, it is true that it is only faith that saves someone. But, it is also true that real faith is the result of repentance, and itself results in repentance and a removing of yourself from the headship of your life and replacing that spot with Jesus Christ. For more on what is encompassed by biblical faith, read my response to Aziz in Comment #211. I would also encourage you to read what I wrote on one of my other pages on the blog “How to Have a Relationship with God“. I think this might help answer some of your questions.
With regard to your question about judgement of Christians, what I can confidently say that there will be no punishment for God’s children (those who followed after Jesus Christ). The bible is clear that Jesus Christ bore all of our punishment on the cross. The debt sheet reads “paid in full” next to each of our names. It was paid by Jesus and there is nothing we can add to that. That is good news! For more on our security as children of God and how repentance ties into this, read what I wrote Jennifer in Comment #217.
What your mother may be talking about is that it is true that there will be a judgement for Christians. The bible tells us that judgement will start first with the house of God (1 Peter 4:17). But this is not a judgement of whether we will be saved or not. It is an evaluation of our level of reward. Paul explains that every sacrificial action we take, every trial we endure, every good work we accomplish will be rewarded by God in heaven. Our level of reward will be different and dependent on the things we do in this life. Paul explains that some people will have saving faith and will make it into heaven, but just barely. Their reward will be small (1 Cor 3:15). This is why Paul worked so hard and “strained toward the goal to win the prize for which God had called him heavenward” (Phil 3). Thus, our motivation to work hard on earth is not to avoid punishment but to gain reward. That is a huge difference. Hopefully that clears up your misunderstanding. For more on a proper understanding of what should motivate a believer to do good works I suggest reading what I wrote to Colby in Comment #61.
God bless,
Jake
October 26, 2015 at 1:30 pm
[…] First of all i want to announce that being a christian is not a religion but it is a personal relationship with God through the Son or person of Jesus Christ.I’m not worried about sounding politically correct because at the end of the day its all about saying what is alligned to what the Holy Bible says.During my research i stumbled upon another christian blogger who published a detailed post on this so for more information follow this link>>> https://philippians1v21.wordpress.com/why-believe-in-jesus/why-christianity-is-not-a-religion/ […]
October 28, 2015 at 7:57 pm
You are wrong their are no requirements to be a Christian stop spreading lies
October 29, 2015 at 7:44 am
Jason,
Are you speaking to me? If I am wrong, please show me how from scripture. Also, I think you must have somehow misunderstood my whole point, as the thrust of my message here is that Christianity is different from all other religions, precisely because of what you say.
November 1, 2015 at 4:39 pm
I found your site while looking up about being “saved”. I have found your thoughts and information so helpful. Thank you, Barbara
November 2, 2015 at 1:22 pm
Remember: It’s not a RELIGION, it’s a RELATSHIONSHIP!!
November 3, 2015 at 3:35 am
Truly grace saves not law.Law reveals your weakness, helplessness, guilt & abandon you in damnation. Our problem is lack of BELIEVE, TRUST in Jesus who died for us & the finished work on the cross.
November 6, 2015 at 8:06 pm
Thank-you, I have been burned,screwed and cheated by every Christian for the last 20yrs.I have ever met.You have open my heart .Given me a lot of good food for thought.
God Bless You
William
November 12, 2015 at 11:34 am
Hi Jake – do you still have a copy or link of pastor Daniel’s sermon titled, “GOD SAYS” – the link above you gave doesn’t work. Big thanks Jake.
In Christ,
Lindell8
November 12, 2015 at 11:55 am
Lindell,
Yes. Here is the link: https://vimeo.com/52803885
I will also update the link in the comment above.
November 12, 2015 at 12:18 pm
Thank you so much Jake and God bless!
November 27, 2015 at 11:04 am
The whole problem with this letter is the author has changed the definition of religion. He adds “qualifies or disqualifies” which is not in the definition of religion and changes the definition again to add “that judges” which again is not in the definition of religion. If every person can change the definition to anything they want, the Bible means nothing. Conversations mean nothing. Do you need define every word in your writings?
Jesus preached religion thought the Bible. Yes this a fact. Without religion you can preach a man or woman can marry a animal. The author may not agree with this statement, but his belief allows this. Jesus preached marriage is one man, one women, one time, unless unlawful at the time of the marriage and until death.
In a world without religion ANY marriage is accepted. In India a man was married to a COW!!! Do you think Jesus was OK with this. If there is no religion then your answer is YES! Mine is NO!
There is a woman who claims she is married to a german shepard dog. Do you think Jesus is Ok with this. Again, the author would say he is not, but his beleif would allow this.
I am sure my comment will not be left up. I am also sure it will not be answered to. Please read 2 Timothy 3 in full. Some version use the term unholy other use illreligious. The end times will be when people turn way from God, religion and what the Bible ask us to do.
I see a time when some will say noone can read the bible, it’s just to cofusing and filled with religion. When we change the definations to what we want, then we are changing the Bible to what we want it to become.
I will end with this. While in San Antonio TX a coworker gave me thier new defination of religion. “religion is anything that interfears with your personal relationship with Christ.” That sounds nice right. Nice warm and fuzzy.
With this new time of changing defentions to what ever we want I feel soon the Bible will be thrown out. People will say “Just worship how ever you want and do what ever you want.” Could we endup with orgies at Christian Churches, why not only religion would not allow this, right.
November 27, 2015 at 1:34 pm
Paul,
Thank you for taking the time to comment. I appreciate your viewpoint and I think you bring up some valid concerns. You said I would not post your comment and certainly wouldn’t respond to it. I am happy to say you are wrong on both counts.
It is certainly true that you and I are not defining the word religion the same. But is it really a valid claim that your definition is the ONLY valid definition?
Many words in the English language have multiple definitions listed under the same word in the dictionary. Religion is no exception. In fact, the word religion is widely recognized to be one of the hardest words to define in our language. Patrick McNamara once said, “Try to define religion and you invite an argument.” This is why, when I survey dictionaries, I don’t find any two dictionaries that have the same definition listed as number 1 for this word! It is a complex word that has many meanings, depending on the idea the person using it is trying to convey, and depending on the context. If you had read some of my responses to others in the comments above, you would see where I have listed several dictionary definitions of the word that do carry with them the meanings you clam religion doesn’t have. Please read my comments #49, 78 and 148 above for my rebuttal to your claim that I “changed the definition”. I have little desire to argue the point further.
I certainly share your desire to avoid people embracing a faith they invent on their own and rejecting the truth and commands of the bible. However, I believe your claim that this will certainly happen when people stop seeing Christianity as a religion is a logical fallacy called “the Slippery Slope”. You have in no way established that someone who believes that Christianity is not a religion (as I have defined the word) will result to these sinful actions you mention (embracing homosexuality, orgies, and just doing whatever you want). I do none of these things and I consider them abhorrent. Yet, I do not believe Christianity satisfies the criteria of being religious (according to the criteria I gave in the blog post). This establishes your claim as a slippery slope fallacy.
The fact is, I believe everything the bible says. What you seem to not understand is that I am in no way claiming the bible doesn’t tell us things we are to do and not do. It certainly does. I have made this repeatedly clear in numerous comments above (see my comment #s 22, 41, 50, 61, 99, 139 and 162). There are many commands in Scripture. Yes, Jesus taught us many things to do. My claim is only that the motivation and reason for doing these things is vastly different in Christianity than in other religions. As a Christian, I do not obey God and do the things he tells me to do to earn His favor or to gain righteousness. I already have these things because of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ in my place. No, I do them because of a different motivation. I do them because I love God as a father and want to please Him. I do them because He has changed my heart and given me new desires I never had before.
Here is the key thing that prevents and interrupts your slippery slope: the Holy Spirit living in the heart of a true follower of Jesus Christ. This is why relationship is more powerful than religion. A true follower of Jesus with the Spirit residing within them has little use for lists of commands, rules, rituals and regulations. Why? Simple, they have God in them directing them. They are given a new heart of flesh that comes with new motivations and desires (Ez 36:26). And thus they no longer wish to do evil but desire to do good (Rom 7). They have become a new creation, the old is gone (2 Cor 5:17).
This is what the New Testament repeatedly teaches. God will write his commands on the hearts of those who follow Him (Heb 8:10). I do not need a list of rules when I have God’s commands in my heart, meaning my thoughts and desires are aligned with His. He has abolished the old law (Eph 2:15) making it obsolete (Heb 8:13) and that Jesus Christ was the end to the law for righteousness (Rom 10:4). Through Jesus we are dead to the law which had previously held us captive (Rom 7:1-6).
I challenge you to read Galatians 5, the whole chapter. See if you do not realize that this is exactly what Paul (your namesake) taught: that Jesus Christ came to give us freedom form the law, freedom from rituals, regulations and harsh rules. It is not a freedom to sin, mind you. But it is a freedom to follow our new desires and to be filled with the Holy Spirit. It is a freedom to allow the Holy Spirit to produce fruit in our life. When this happens, we will be obeying God, not because we followed some formula and checked every item off the rule list, but because we will be pursuing God and His desires become ours. The Holy Spirit provides us both the power and the desire to do these good works. Neither come from us willing up obedience to a list of rules (Phil 2:13).
Someone who practices the evil you describe and has no desire to learn and obey what God has revealed to us in His word, the bible, has clearly not had the heart change I describe above. Such a person is not a follower of Jesus Christ. They are not a Christian. The passage you reference (2 Tim 3) is describing those who are not followers of Jesus. In the last days the world will grow increasingly dark and people will surround themselves with those who tell them what they want to hear. This is true. But fortunately, those who have the Holy Spirit residing within them will be made aware of the truth. A true Christian is not in danger of your slippery slope, because they have the Holy Spirit to guide them and convict them of sin (John 16:8). Paul says that this Holy Spirit is the deposit guaranteeing them the inheritance of the Kingdom of God (Eph 1:14) and that God is faithful to complete the good work that He started in them (Phil 1:6). This is because salvation is God’s work, not our own.
Thanks again for your comment, Paul. Please read my other comments I referenced in this response, as I think my answers there will help you understand what I am saying here much better.
God bless,
Jake
November 27, 2015 at 10:09 pm
God bless you Jake !
December 8, 2015 at 7:07 am
You’re loaded man, let us kill this religion thing. I am blessed to read your article. Stay blessed to impact many more lives.
December 8, 2015 at 11:05 am
This is an awesome article.
December 12, 2015 at 5:25 pm
I always thought we had to be a certain
Religion, and then I believe the Holy Spirit
Spoke to my heart, and said it’s not about
Religion, it’s about a Relationship with Jesus
Christ our Lord and Savior.
So after that I knew It was ment for me
To know what God wants from Us.
To know who he is and what we must
Do to be Saved, and it’s a FREE gift
That we can only receive in our hearts
By Believing he humbled himself.
To come to us as the form of a Baby
And he was his Son Jesus,
Who would die on the Cross to save
Us from our sins, and if we Believe
He died for us and arose again, and
Is returning for us.we will be in Heaven
With him, Amen
Love & Prayers to all,
Cindy
December 13, 2015 at 11:54 pm
Christian spirituality as in the NT and Christian religiosity which we have now are quite different. Who is the most important Apostle? St Paul because he wrote the most books? St Peter because Christ said feed my lambs? St James the Brother of Jesus because he was the first Bishop? Of course not! İt was St John the Divine because he was Jesus best friend! He recorded the truest definition of faith in John 3:16 which is to say faith is the unconditional belief that someone loves you. All other definitions of faith are NOT complete! What else will a religious man say? A personal relationship with God means being a self-professed Christian?! That is not what Christ said. A Christian is one who does the works of Christ bearing the fruit of the Spirit no matter his religious profession on the outside. Can the author of this article accept such teaching? İ don’t think so. The article outlines some of the same religious dogma spiritual Christians avoid. Does this mean we do not participate in religious activities? No! But we look at the bigger picture! İ am a Minister. İ do not think being a self-professed Christian is a personal relationship with Christ. Nor is believing the tenets of a Church having faith in Christ. İts simply believing unconditionally that God faithfully loves you as Himself with all His Life. This is evidenced by the fruit of the Spirit rather than membership of a religious group. He that has an ear let him hear!
December 14, 2015 at 10:41 am
Nii,
Who is the most important Apostle? This is irrelevant question. None of them are. They were just flawed humans, like us. They are only tools God used to communicate His words. They all spoke to us the words of God, so they all have the same authority. It is Jesus that is most important. We have His words and teaching because these men recorded them for us. In that sense, for us, they are just scribes or messengers communicating the message from God. Which scribe is most important? Scribes are not important; only the one whose words are being conveyed. Don’t believe me? Then read Paul’s own words on the subject in 1 Corinthians 3:
There is nothing in the bible that states that John is the most important. I am sorry, but you are importing that idea into the text. It is not there. And frankly, it is an anti-biblical idea. Also, it what way is John “Divine”? Are you claiming John was God? John was a flawed, human man just like you. He is seen arguing with the other disciples, trying to be the greatest in the kingdom of God (Mark 10:35-45). In the book of Revelation John is grieved over his own sin and mourns the fact that no one (himself included) is found worthy to open the scroll…except the Lord Jesus Christ (Rev 5:4). John is not divine.
In your comment you frustrate the biblical (and Christian) notion of grace by your statement that faith is defined as love for God. While I certainly agree strongly that love for God must be manifested by anyone who is truly a follower of Jesus, I cannot agree that love is the same thing as faith or that it is what brings salvation. The bible teaches that love is the byproduct of faith. Love comes as the RESULT of faith. You can see in many places in the NT that faith and love are separate ideas (e.g. 1 Cor 13:13, Gal 5:22). And, you can see that faith expresses itself in love here:
I agree love is important, even the most important virtue. But, it is not what grants us salvation. That is faith (Rom 10:4, 9). The bible could not be clearer that it is faith, alone, that saves (e.g. Rom 3:28-30, 4:5, 16, 5:1, 9:30, 11:6, Gal 2:16, 21, Phil 3:9). If we don’t have faith in God we cannot love Him (Heb 11:6). In fact before faith, we are called God’s enemies (Rom 5:10). If we do have faith in God, we will express that faith in love (see Gal 5:6 above). A ripple in a pond is the result of the stone being tossed in. We can see the ripple and know the stone entered the water. But, it is not the ripple that was the cause of the stone entering the water. It was the stone that caused the ripple. Love is the ripple we see in people’s lives as a result of the stone, faith, being tossed in by God (Eph 2:8-10).
So, it is certainly true that love for God is a good test to see if you really have saving faith or not. However, it is crucial to not get it backwards. The faith must come first. If we think that it is our love for God that saves us, then it is of our own doing. Then we are ultimately trusting in our own works to save us. The fact is that the bible teaches us that no one can love God or please Him before they are granted faith.
You claimed, “A Christian is one who does the works of Christ bearing the fruit of the Spirit no matter his religious profession on the outside”. And elsewhere you said, “I do not think being a self-professed Christian is a personal relationship with Christ.”
You CANNOT do the works of Christ without first believing in Christ. If you don’t believe that Jesus Christ was God in the form of a man, and that He came to earth, lived a sinless life, died on the cross to save you from hell, and that He rose again to provide you a way to have eternal life…then you cannot do the works of Christ nor have the Holy Spirit. Without such faith you are not a child of God (John 1:12). Paul says that this faith MUST be “professed” (with your mouth), as well (Rom 10:9-10). Jesus claimed that if you do not openly profess Him in front of others (“on the outside”), but instead deny Him, then He will deny you before the Father (Matt 10:33). So, absolutely, A Christian is one who professes Jesus Christ on the outside and on the inside. You cannot have one without the other.
Here is a biblical concept of how one is saved: First, God grants us faith. It is a gift from Him, not of our own doing (Eph 2:8). The moment this happens, the Holy Spirit enters the believer and gives them a new heart (Ez 36:26). He takes up residency there in us. He begins to give them new desires and new passions. He writes His commands on their heart (Heb 8:10). He produces love, which gradually grows, like a fruit, in their lives (Gal 5:22). This love is a “fruit of the Spirit”, i.e. is it a product that is produced by the Holy Spirit in the life of one who has been saved. If it is a product that gradually grows (like a fruit) then it cannot the cause of their salvation. It is not the seed or even the vine, but the fruit…the byproduct. Their faith begins to work itself out as love for God and for others (Gal 5:6). But it is NOT this love that saves the person. This love is not the same as faith. It comes from the faith. It is a necessary outcome of true faith in Jesus and the working of the Holy Spirit in the heart of a believer.
God bless,
Jake
January 5, 2016 at 12:14 am
I am interested in christian community
January 7, 2016 at 12:34 pm
This information is incorrect. Judeo-Christianity is the only real religion. All the others are cults. Whoever wrote this article obviously doesn’t want people to get accepted into the Kingdom of heaven because only accepting Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour can do that. The devil is a liar and a deceiver. Xx
January 7, 2016 at 12:47 pm
Emma,
I don’t think you actually read what I wrote here. If you had, I think you would realize that we both agree that believing and trusting in Jesus Christ as Lord is the only way anyone will be saved. I am a Christian. I am advocating for Christianity. Perhaps you should read it again.
Jake
January 9, 2016 at 10:19 am
Thank you, Jesus.
January 11, 2016 at 9:50 am
Beautiful… I love the true ideas and the structural organization of the content: It added more voice to the proposal of the writer and provided a splendid channel through which the truth of the purpose of God’s law is unveiled. I won’t forget in a jiffy to commend the writer’s profound knowledge of the scripture. This article is really helpful to the seeking soul.
January 12, 2016 at 7:04 pm
Thank you for telling it as it is. My wife and I left the PCUSA because they are following social trends ,not Jesus.We attended a Mormon Church for a month and I could see it was works based.Thank you!
January 20, 2016 at 3:17 pm
I find this article interesting. One point of interest though is that the author says “Religion is the creation of man and is not the intention or design of God.” yet he talks unquestioningly of the bible (but questions the Pharisees). Where does the unquestioning belief of the Bible come from? Is it not a “creation of man” and not the “design of God”? I am curious.
January 22, 2016 at 7:14 am
“We aren’t fighting against human enemies but against rulers, authorities, forces of cosmic darkness and spiritual powers of evil in the heavens.
Ephesians 6: 12 (CEB)
This verse indicates that Paul saw the God-created spiritual forces that enable the action of our human civilization.
Paul leads us to contemplate the dominating nature of these forces within our reality.
The human trait for following an assertive leader is maintained by a spiritual force; the activities of whole nations are determined by incorporeal powers (Daniel chapter 10); the very human ideas for advancement in science and the arts are transmitted by intangible influence; and even the existence of classes, personalities, coincidence or fortune, are driven by ethereal energy. ”
Excerpt From: Mike Stair. “On Earth As It Is In Heaven.” iBooks. https://itun.es/us/DZeA8.l
January 22, 2016 at 2:25 pm
Mike Stair,
I would be doing you a disservice to not warn you about then manner in which you treat Scripture in your above comment. You have, either deliberately or mistakenly, taken a passage completely out of context and twisted its words to mean something the author had no intention to be saying. The meaning you take away from it is in clear contradiction to the teaching revealed in the whole of Scripture.
Your claim that Paul is speaking in Ephesians 6 about some type of mystical “ethereal energy” that dictates all human behavior is nonsense. This isn’t Star Wars. The “Force” is not with you, Padawan. To quote the late Han Solo, “There’s no mystical energy field that controls my destiny…”. Such an understanding of that passage ignores all of Paul’s other writings, in which he calls believers to take actions of their own to affect outcomes (e.g. 1 Cor 16:13-14). If he believed we are all controlled by some force, why would he speak so?
Additionally, even a cursory look at the very verse you quote refutes your idea. Here, you imply that Paul’s words translated “forces of cosmic darkness” mean some ethereal force. But, is that really what it means? There are two Greek words used in this verse that are often translated “force” in the English language. The first is Kosmokrator (used in the phrase “world forces of this darkness”). This word is derived from the Greek word Kosmos, from which we get our word cosmos; the idea of the sum-total of the material universe, or in this context, the world. A kosmoskrator is a world ruler, an authority which governs or rules the whole world. This word is universally used to refer to a person or persons, never a passive force. Rather it describes an active person who orders the world and has authority over it. In this context, “kosmokrators of this darkness”, speaks of spiritual beings who have been given authority over this world and who use their authority and influence for evil.
The second word Paul uses in this verse, that sometimes gets translated “spiritual forces”, is pneumatikos. This is derived from the Greek word pneuma, which means spirit. It is the Greek way of saying soul. Pneumatikos is contrasted with psuchikos, which refers to the physical body of a person. Thus, pneumatikos is referring to the part of the person that isn’t physical, i.e. the soul. In this context, “pneumatikos of wickedness in the heavenly places” refers to spirits that exist in heavenly places who are wicked in nature. These are actual, individual spirits, not a combined, all-inclusive force.
In both of these instances, rather than a vague, mystic force that dictates human behavior, Paul is describing very real spiritual beings that are not visible and you are at work behind the scenes influencing people to certain ends. We see such spirits continually at work in the gospels (e.g. Matt 4:1-11, 9:32-34, 8:28-34, 10:42, 12:22-30, 15:21-28, 17:14-21, Mark 1:12-13, 23-28, 3:22-30, 5:1-20, 7:24-30, 9:14-29, 38-41, Luke 4:1-13, 33-37, 11:14-23, 8:26-39, 9:37-43, 49-50). We call these spirits demons or fallen angels. They are mentioned 63 times in the New Testament. They are not all powerful. They are limited in power, but their influence is real and vast. The comforting thing is that Jesus was clear that these evil spirits cannot stop the spread of the gospel and that His victory over them has already occurred and is complete. Christians have been given authority over these spirits by the power in the very name of Jesus Christ. We may currently wrestle against these spirits, but we have the upper hand and the victory is already ours, thanks to Jesus.
Mike, I have not read your book, but I seriously caution you in the kind of free-wheeling interpretation you seem to have taken with Scripture. Such use of the bible is to your own peril. We must come to the bible and allow it to show us the truth, not bring our ideas of truth to it and look for passages that we can twist and contort into aligning with our ideas, while ignoring the clear teaching of the rest of the text. The Apostle Peter warned that people would do what you have done here to Paul’s letters. . .
January 27, 2016 at 10:23 am
Shaelyn,
Thank you for your question. I am glad you are curious and that you found the article interesting. Yes, you are correct, I believe the bible is true. It is quite a leap for you to assume, though, that I do so “unquestioningly”. That is not the case, at all. The reason I believe the bible is a true account is because I have spent years investigating the statements and claims in this book and found it to be a reliable historical account of events that actually happened. I have thoroughly reviewed the available evidence and concluded that the bible is true and that Jesus Christ is who He claimed to be: the Son of God. If you are seriously interested in the evidence and would like to know more about how I believe this conclusion is support by the facts, I would encourage you to read this blog post I wrote which answers the very question you ask, “The Bible – Letter Explaining Why I Believe“.
To list just one example from the many I address in that post, I would cite fulfilled prophecy. There are over 300 individual, separate, and specific prophecies of the Messiah in the Jewish scriptures that Jesus Christ, alone, fulfilled. The Jewish Scriptures pre-date Christianity by over 800-1000 years. This is documented fact, as proven by the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls. The fulfillment of these prophecies were witnessed by countless people and are some of the most well documented events in all of recorded history. Many of these events are recorded, not only by followers of Jesus Christ, but also by Roman and Jewish officials and historians. The evidence here is simply overwhelming. No other religious text can legitimately claim this. Fulfilled prophecy is powerful evidence that the words passed down to us in the bible are not merely the “creation of man” but are also the “design of God”.
Additionally, Christianity hangs on the person of Jesus Christ. He claimed to be God come as a man to help us be able to see and know God. If His claim is true, then His words to us are indeed from God. As I said, I have come to the undeniable conclusion that Jesus Christ is who He claimed to be. I believe this conclusion is unavoidable from the well documented and established historical facts surrounding His death and resurrection. Any man who could predict his own death, be publicly executed by trained professionals, have his body buried in a sealed tomb, then have his body go missing, and be seen alive by hundreds of witlessness…deserves to have His claim of deity taken very seriously. I believe the historical evidence supports all of these claims. I would encourage you to investigate this evidence for yourself. A good place to start would be this blog post I wrote: “Why Believe in Christianity Over Other Religions?”
God bless,
Jake McWhirter
January 27, 2016 at 11:16 pm
This is a wonderful and much needed post on the internet. I have a new tool now! I’ve always had a hard time trying to explain how christianity isn’t a religion but a relationship. Just today I was have having a discussion with a good friend who is very very athiest and I kept trying to explain this concept to him. He is an open minded person, but not to things like this. Can you give me any tips on how to reach people who have maybe given up on God, won’t have anything to do with it, or just don’t fully understand? I know there is power in numbers, especially with prayer. Could you and anyone else who would like to pray for these few individuals? (I’ll only post first names for privacy reasons) Brian, Luis, Kyra, Jennifer, Hawk, Levi, Jerimiah. I care for these people very much, and it pains me greatly to know that they don’t have a relationship with Christ. Thank you!
January 30, 2016 at 6:40 am
I would suggest the best way to increase your relationship is to read the Bible. When you do you will see all the times that Jesus ask and sometimes demands religious things for all of his followers to do. Then you can decide for yourself the type of relationship you want to have one of service or rebellion. Not one of us is perfect, but we can always look to grow closer to Christ. When you say Christianity is not a religion I hope you at least you may see it is a non religion filled with religious things that Jesus asked us to do.
February 2, 2016 at 8:07 pm
But… Mormonism IS Christianity…. They believe in the same God and basic ideas… just because you don’t like them doesn’t mean you get to give them a whole new category so it makes you feel better…
February 3, 2016 at 1:02 pm
Paul Perez,
I agree with you that the best way to grow a better relationship with God is by reading the bible. I also agree that in the bible Jesus tells us (even commands us) to do many things. I have never claimed otherwise. In fact, as I have repeatedly told you, I have constantly and consistently stated that Christians are called to do many things and to have good works. It seems you still haven’t read my comments 22, 41, 50, 61, 99, 139 and 162 above, like I asked you to. If you had, you would not question if I believe there are religious things that Jesus asks us to do.
The problem I see in your approach is that it seems to be focused on “doing” rather than “being”. Yes, we are to do things for God. But if doing is our focus, they become empty and hollow acts of religion, instead of acts of worship. The correct Christian focus is on “being”. It is on abiding in Christ. It is on communion with God and growing in our knowledge and understanding of Him (e.g. what you said about reading the Word). As we do this, it magnifies God in our minds and hearts and produces a spirit of worship in us. Our worshipful attitude and heart overflows into good works. They are the outcome of our heart condition. They are the fruit that the Holy Spirit grows in response to our abiding in Christ. Our focus must be on abiding with Christ in order to produce real fruit. If our focus becomes the fruit itself, it will be artificial and not genuine.
Yes, Jesus told us to do many things. But, you must acknowledge that Jesus also said this. . .
Apart from abiding in Christ we can do nothing of worth for Him. We can produce no fruit by willing to do so on our own. We are just the branches, the conduit for the fruit. The vine produces the fruit, not us. The only way we can have fruit grow is by making sure we focus on the vine. We must remain firmly rooted and grounded in the vine. As Jesus says, we need to abide in Him. This means our focus needs to be on Him, not on the fruit (the works). The works will grow as a natural result of our focus on Jesus.
Yes, there are works and Christianity. But they remain a byproduct of it, they are not the essence of it. They are the fruit that grow form the end of the branches but they are not the plant itself.
Jake
February 3, 2016 at 1:42 pm
Yuna, Strife,
I am sorry, but you are incorrect about Mormonism. It is not Christianity. In fact, it is universally considered a cult by every other Christian denomination. It is only modern day Mormons who consider themselves Christian. In this way, they are no different than any other cult that claims to be Christian. If the only Christians who think your sect is Christian is your sect, there is a problem.
What is more, the founder of Mormonism, Joseph Smith, doesn’t even agree with modern Mormons on this point. He flatly rejected any association with the Christian Church. Joseph Smith was told during his encounter with “god” that no Christian denomination was “accurate and that they were all corrupt, teaching the doctrines and commandments of men.” (Pearl of Great Price Joseph Smith—History 2:1). According to Joseph Smith, a “Great Apostasy” had corrupted the church from the outset. As the “prophet of the restoration,” Smith would restore what had been lost—the very Gospel itself—and establish the one, true “restored church”. Thus, Classical Christianity is at odds with Mormonism. This cannot be avoided. Foundational Mormon documents (including the Book of Mormon) clearly show that they do not claim to be in the same faith as the rest of the Christian church. It has only been recently that Mormons have wanted downplay this fact and have insisted that they ARE Christians. But, putting lipstick on a pig doesn’t change the reality.
The reason Mormonism is a cult and not part of Christianity is that they reject central, core beliefs that are absolutely fundamental to what Christianity is. In order for a belief system to be considered Christian it must:
• Share the core doctrines of Christianity that distinguish it from other religions. It must share the basic doctrines, not just their terminology.
• Not have no core doctrines at odds with core doctrines of Christianity
Mormonism fails both of these tests. Here are a few examples of what I mean:
• Mormonism completely disagrees with Christianity on the nature God. That’s kind of a big deal. Mormonism is polytheist, not monotheistic. They do not believe in one God who created everything. In fact, they believe there are many gods who all used to be men in the past. Even their highest god, Elohim, was once a man. They do not believe in an eternal God. If you don’t believe what Christians believe about God, you aren’t Christian.
• Mormons blur the distinction between God and man. They believe God is an exulted man. They believe that God has a flesh-and-bone body. He is not omnipresent, omnipotent, and omniscient like the God of Christianity.
• Mormonism does not believe in the notion of the Trinity; three distinct, but equal persons that form one being. Mormonism claims that they are separate beings. Thus they reject monotheism. This is a flat rejection of the earliest Christian doctrinal Creed, the Nicene Creed. If you reject foundational Christian doctrinal creeds, you are not Christian.
• They say they believe in Jesus, but they do not believe in the Christian Jesus. They believe Jesus is a god but not the eternal, everlasting God of creation, who is not himself created (a spirit of man). That is not the same person. Giving the same name to a different entity does not mean you believe in the true Jesus.
• Mormons believe works are required for salvation. As I explain in this blog that is diametrically opposed to what Christianity teaches. That was the whole point of Jesus coming to die for us, to pay the debt we could not pay with our works.
Is Mormonism basically the same as Christianity? Well, maybe, unless you are talking about the eternal nature of God, the distinction between God and man, the nature of God, the nature and purpose of man, the number of gods, who Jesus Christ is and what his role and authority is, how to be reconciled with God, and who will be saved. There is not one major theological doctrine of Mormonism that overlaps with classical Christianity on any of the crucial junctures. If Mormonism is Christian, classical Christianity is not. They can call it whatever they want, but it doesn’t change that they share no core beliefs with the Christian Church.
Hopefully this helps clarify.
God bless,
Jake
February 7, 2016 at 8:41 am
Awesome thanks!!!
February 9, 2016 at 1:38 am
I’m sorry but to say christianity is not a religion, is attempting to redefine the definition,as religions at its core, follow a holy book, and christianity does that, atheism,does not. Atheism ,at its core, is simply the disbelief of a higher power, where it be god allah,ect. ME personally, I’m a deist, as I believe there’s some higher power that created the universe, but it cannot be ANY relgion. Why? Because almost all religions are human-centric, and sorry to say, humans are not special, where just the top of the food chain, on ONE planet orbiting a habitats zone , and we know now there’s over a billion planets orbiting similar habitat zones.
The other reason I know religions can’t be true is the fact that where not alone in the universe, and how can we be “made in gods image” , and “gods chosen people”, if there’s countless other aliens out there? The higher power , out there has to treat everyone out there equally, not choose humans over anything.
All religions (christanity included) are made to quell mans fear of death.
It’s not impossible for there to be a higher power out there, I believe that, (I’m a deist) but I have no proof, I come to that point logically .
A question I pose to religious people, is if they all pray to different deities, why do they ( the ones who do) receive a response, if only one is true? One of gods commandments is honour no god before me, so he shouldn’t speak to someone who’s praying to allah? Therefore it’s a higher power that is not anybody’s religious god, but something still out there, but again, I just believe this, based on fact, not based on a book of faith.
-Chris
February 11, 2016 at 1:48 am
Hey can i follow you? I find your blogs really interesting, Bible based, and true. I’m a Christian, and has a very close relationship with God (it really feels so good to say it out loud!). I always find studying, and meditating the Bible a really fun, and worthy thing to do (a hobby, if that’s a valid definition). And so, I always find myself self studying about different topics in the Bible, but of course there are still lots of questions that might come in your head unanswered. I am so blessed with what you right in your blog, and I thank God for giving me wisdom, that even though I (we, i think all of us) cannot fully fathom the Wisdom, love, and Holiness of the Lord, He has given me enough to understand that He is everything I needed in my life. I had gone to Bible School (I took 1 subject only, and hadn’t gone ever since), and I really like to know more without the pressure of school works. I want to follow you, and if it’s ok with you, i’d really like to have a communication with you for, you know, if i need to ask something, or help with something (i will not ask for money don’t worry! Haha!) about Spiritual growth and anything else in the Bible. Thank you and thanks for your posts! You are a blessing to lots of people! God bless you!
Isaiah Elias 🙂
February 16, 2016 at 4:37 pm
Chris,
First, thank you for your comment. I would be happy to discuss the logical reasons for why I believe Jesus Christ is God.
However, I admit I find it rather comical that you claim you base your beliefs strictly on facts and not faith and yet one of the main reasons you give for why you reject all religions is because there are “countless other aliens out there” and “we know there’s over a billion planets orbiting similar habitat zones”. I find that unbelievably ironic and hypocritical, since we have absolutely NO evidence for this claim! Your claim is patently false. Astronomers have not been able to find even one example of a habitable planet other than earth. There is certainly no solid evidence for the existence of intelligent aliens. That isn’t to say there aren’t any, but there is simply no evidence that there are. You are basing your belief on nothing other than blind faith. If you want to have faith that they exist, that’s fine. But don’t turn around in the same comment and criticize others for having faith in a religion. It’s just hypocritical. And certainly don’t site your faith in aliens (without any evidence) to attack the notion of religious faith.
Secondly, even if your claim that there are countless other aliens was valid, this doesn’t at all refute the claim of Christianity. There is nothing in Christianity that states that there are no other beings on other planets. That issue is simply not addressed in the bible. You are making an argument from silence (which is a logical fallacy). The fact that the bible doesn’t mention something is not the same thing as it saying it doesn’t exist. That is a fallacious argument. You claim to value logic . . . so don’t violate it.
The fact of the matter is, my “book of faith” has substantially more evidence to support it than your blind faith in the existence of countless alien species. My belief in Jesus Christ has much more evidence to support it than your blind faith in your nameless, characterless, generic deity. This is because Jesus Christ is a real, historical person, and the events surrounding his life, death and resurrection are documented historical fact.
You dismiss the bible, but based on what evidence? It is simply not enough to disregard it without some reason to dismiss the eye-witness accounts it documents. You are not permitted to dismiss eye-witness accounts in a court of law without valid evidence to refute it. The same approach must be taken with history. Indeed, this is how historians approach ancient documented accounts.
The bible is the compiled written testimony of 40 separate eye-witnesses. The New Testament accounts of Jesus are also attested to by 20 additional writers outside of the bible! There are as many non-Christian writers that talk about Jesus existence and what he did than there are the Roman Emperor at the time (Tiberius Caesar)! Even the enemies of Christianity at the time write that these events occurred. Even if you completely dismiss the eye-witness accounts of Jesus in the bible (which is a biased and unscholarly approach), I can even verify the events recorded in the bible concerning Jesus’ existence, his miracles, his claim to be God, his death by crucifixion, even his resurrection from the dead, his empty tomb, the testimony of his disciples, and their willingness to be martyred for it . . . all from writings external to the bible! I can even do this from the writings of non-Christians at the time. That’s how well documented a historical reality it is.
You can read more on the amazing amount of textual support for the New Testament in this blog I wrote: http://missionarybrewer.wordpress.com/2013/07/08/can-the-new-testament-really-be-trusted/
There is one other point I would like to make to you: there is no religion more “human-centric” than Deism. It is the ultimate man-friendly concept of a deity, because he has no demands on you. He is whatever you want him to be, and nothing you don’t want him to be. Deists are freely allowed to take whatever they want of God and reject whatever they don’t want. Thomas Jefferson (one of the most famous Deists) actually went through his bible ripping out the pages he didn’t like and only keeping the portions he agreed with. It doesn’t get any more human-centric than this. Deists, in effect, create God in their own image. You believe in the God you are comfortable with.
I will pray that you will truly and objectively weigh the evidence for your nameless deity with the evidence for Jesus Christ. I believe you will be surprised by what you discover.
God bless,
Jake
March 1, 2016 at 4:01 am
Hi Jack,
Thanks for your article.
Sorry i don’t perfectly in english…
Your article clears up a lot of things I do not know.
I have one question:
In short, my friend ( chretien) was told that the only way to be saved is in–> Mark: 16:16. “Whoever Believes and is Baptized will be saved, goal Whoever Does not believe Will Be Condemned.” … And John 3: 3 ” Answered Jesus and Said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born anew, he can not see the kingdom of God. ” So he said : (1)we should be baptized to be saved, we must be ” born again”, (2) baptism of Jesus by the Holy Spirit
…. The baptism or water baptism is a rite or sacrament symbolizing the new life of the Christian believer … Water symbolizes both the drowning of the baptized in their former life characterized by sin, and their new birth in a new and eternal life …
Michael
March 3, 2016 at 7:08 am
We are saved by Christ’s finished work on the cross, not our accepting of it.
March 4, 2016 at 10:38 am
Michael,
Your friends belief, that baptism is required for salvation, is a common but incorrect interpretation of scripture. The specific verses that he references (and that you list ) do not at all make his case. In fact, the first one from Mark actually refutes it. I have actually already responded regarding this claim in a previous comments. Take a look at what I said in Comment #95 above.
Let’s briefly look at each of the passages you quote.
Mark 16:16
“Whoever Believes and is Baptized will be saved, but Whoever Does not believe Will Be Condemned.” Notice that in the second phrase baptism is not listed, only belief. Yes, whoever believes and is baptized will be saved. But, is that salvation based on their belief or their baptism, or both? This question is answered in the next phrase . . . “whoever does not believe will be condemned”. So this verse is actually showing that it is the belief, not the baptism that saves. Certainly, the person who has both belief and is baptized will be saved. But the one that your salvation hangs on, the one that if you don’t have it brings condemnation, is belief. So, this verse actually refutes your friend’s claim.
John 3:5-8
Your friend misunderstands the context of this passage. It is true, Jesus does say, “unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.” However the water he refers to here is clearly natural birth, not baptism. This is the Nicodemus passage where Jesus is explaining to Nicodemus that in order to enter the kingdom of God he must be born again. The second birth is of the spirit, the first birth is of water. Read that whole passage in context . . .
Jesus clarifies in the very next sentence that his use of water is equivalent to being born in flesh (natural birth) as opposed to second birth, which is being born in spirit. This passage has nothing to do with baptism. There is no link made at all to baptism.
Yes, every believer should be baptized, and it is certainly one of the things God calls (even commands) us to do. However, the thief on the cross was in Paradise with Jesus that same day, and he was never baptized (Luke 23:43). Similarly, in Romans 10 Paul explains what is necessary to be saved (to confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart). He does not mention baptism here. He goes on to say that “every one who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved”. There are certainly many who have done this and never were baptized. So, unless Paul got it wrong, your friend is adding something.
My question to the person that believes baptism is required is this: what is it about baptism that saves you? Is it the physical water, the physical washing? The bible is clear that it is faith alone that saves (Rom 4:5, Eph 2:8). This is one of the 5 “solas” of the Protestant Reformation, “Sola fide”. If it isn’t the physical washing from water and the bible clearly teaches that it is only faith that saves you, then what exactly does baptism add?
Peter elsewhere makes it clear that it is NOT the physical washing of baptism that saves you (1 Pet 3:21). He says it is “not the removal of dirt from the body” (washing with water) that saves you but the “appeal to God for a clean conscience”. It is this appeal for God to wash your heart. It is the baptism of the heart (conscience). The outward, physical baptism is just a representation of inward baptism by which Gods cleanses your sinful heart because of your faith in the work of Jesus Christ to pay for your sin on the cross. He says it is done by the power of the resurrection of Jesus. It is Jesus’ life, death, and resurrection that gives us the ability to have a clean conscience, a pure heart, in God’s eyes.
So yes, I agree with the passages you quote. “Believe and be baptized” (Mark 16:16). But, it is the belief that saves, not the water. The water is an obedient outward display of the baptism that happens in the heart. Baptism can also be a powerful display of salvation if they both (faith and physical baptism) happen simultaneously.
There are other examples in the bible where people receive the Holy Spirit prior to physical baptism (For one example see Acts 10:44-48). We know from Scripture that you cannot posses the Holy Spirit if you are not saved (Rom 8:9, 1 Cor 6:19, 12:3, Eph 1:13, 4:30, Tit 3:5). Therefore, it is clear that baptism cannot be a requirement for salvation. I could write more on this, but I think this is sufficient.
God bless,
Jake
March 4, 2016 at 1:50 pm
Larry,
Are you really claiming that you do not have to believe and accept that Jesus Christ died on the cross for your sins in order to be saved? So, you think that everyone in the world is saved because of what Jesus did, regardless of whether they accept this as true or not? If that is really what you believe, how did you come to that conclusion? I ask this because it is clear you didn’t get that from the bible. The bible makes it VERY clear that people who reject Jesus will not be saved. If that is truly what you believe, how do you reconcile the following bible passages?
Jesus, Himself, said, “But all who reject me and my message will be judged on the day of judgment by the truth I have spoken.” ~ John 12:48
“Yes, you who trust him [Jesus] recognize the honor God has given him. But for those who reject him, ‘The stone that the builders rejected has now become the cornerstone.’ And,’He is the stone that makes people stumble, the rock that makes them fall.’ They stumble because they do not obey God’s word, and so they meet the fate that was planned for them.” ~ 1 Pet 2:7-8
“For this is how God loved the world: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. . . There is no judgment against anyone who believes in him. But anyone who does not believe in him has already been judged for not believing in God’s one and only Son.” ~ John 3:16, 18
“He will come with his mighty angels, in flaming fire, bringing judgment on those who don’t know God and on those who refuse to obey the Good News of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with eternal destruction, forever separated from the Lord and from his glorious power.” ~ 2 Thes 1:7-10
if you truly stand by your comment, you must reject the truth of Scripture. If you reject the teaching of both Jesus and His disciples, then why do you believe in Christ’s work on the cross? If Jesus’ teaching can’t be trusted, how can His death on the cross be effective? This just doesn’t make sense.
Jake
March 5, 2016 at 10:50 am
I think someone could come to this conclusion just as some say Christianity is not a religion. Jesus ask just much to accept him as he for us to do religious things.
There seems to be no unity in our faith any more. How could any one question baptism, breaking of the bread, marriage and to accept him as savior.
This world seems to be filled with chaos and getting worse every year. Just look at our elections this year.
I can’t believe someone would say we don’t have to accept him as savior. Chaos!
March 11, 2016 at 3:24 pm
Jesus said you will find me when you seek me with All your Heart. Not half heartily but whole heartily. We cannot open the doors for evil, and expect God to Save us. Whoever Claims to know him must be walking the walk and keeping God’s Commands to put away all malice and to forgive one another to love one another and to Love God and Do The Will of God. God said if you seek first The Kingdom of God and his Righteousness all else shall be added to you. God Bless.
March 11, 2016 at 10:14 pm
Amen, Candycantu7.
March 13, 2016 at 7:17 am
christianity is a religion just as islam is, it has always been a religion, all people considers it a religion it has the definition of religion (the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods). Just because you want to difference yourself from other sects in order to make Christianity look different, special and more real doesn’t remove the fact that christianity is a religion just any other religion in this world.
You say that christianity is not based on works, please talk for yourself, there are other branches in christianity who believes that both works and faith are NECESSARY for salvation, for example, Catholicism and JW’s and even in protestant branches. This happens because the bible is contradictory in this issue (just like in many others) and people has to choose a side.
You wrote “Religion (almost universally) is enforced by those in power in an attempt to maintain, increase, or abuse their power over others. Religion is the creation of man and is not the intention or design of God.”
Really, and what does Christianity do? Doesn’t it say billions of times that if you do not this of this you are going to hell? Is that not enforcing, you could say that Christians do it with love, well yeah, but when the bible say that people who do certain kind of things are going to hell, the love’s part loses all its meaning.
“Religion is the creation of man and is not the intention or design of God.”
Again, talk for yourself, this could be said by any religion in order to make it different from others religions, christianity is not made by men but by God only in christians’s opinions, and you can not make an universal argument from something that only “a group” believes, and that’s not even the definition of religion by the way, so christianity is still considered a religions just like Islam Buddhism etc and will always considered as such, you like it or not.
March 24, 2016 at 7:11 am
Be Good and Do Good. This is a seed that is to be planted. All Good things follow included being saved by Jesus’ perfect sacrifice. God is Good.
Great article! I believe we can’t be saved by the good things we do but we do them because of the Holy Spirit.
March 24, 2016 at 10:09 am
Mario,
Thank you for the comment. You mentioned a few points that I think are worth discussing further. You said. . .
The first problem with what you said here is that you are assuming that everyone who assumes the title of “Christian” actually is one. Just because someone calls themselves a Christian doesn’t make them one. Anyone can claim to be anything they want, but it doesn’t make it true. Hitler said he was a Christian, yet he rejected every single Christian doctrine. Gandhi also claimed he was a Christian (as well as a Muslim, a Hindu and a Jew). Donald Trump even claims to be a Christin, but he also claims he has never repented of anything because he has not sinned. Clearly, these people don’t mean the same thing by “Christian” as the rest of us.
In order to be considered a Christian one has to believe a certain set of core beliefs. It is not necessary that all Christians agree on every point of doctrine, but there must be a core set of minimal beliefs that are universally agreed to in order to distinguish the Christian from the non-Christian. Otherwise being a Christian doesn’t mean anything.
Salvation being the result of faith (and not the result of works) is one of those core beliefs that define whether a person is a Christian or not. How can I say that? Well, the ultimate authority for what it means to be a Christian is the bible. It is true that there has been some confusion on this point among those who call themselves Christians in the history of the Church. But, it has always been the clear teaching of the bible that works are not what saves a person. Here are just two of the many places this claim is clearly rejected in the bible:
The bible is not contradictory on this point, like you claimed. It has a very consistent and uniform teaching on this issue. Here Paul claims that those who say that they must keep the law in order to be saved (have good works) are “cut off from Christ” and “God’s grace”. They are not Christians, according to the Apostle Paul.
This doctrine was best expressed and summarized by the Reformer, Martin Luther, in his description of salvation as being by faith alone (sola fide) in 1517. He showed how the Catholic Church had abandoned the clear teaching of the bible on this issue. It is certainly true that one common aspect of Catholicism is that many Catholics reject the notion that they are saved as a result of their faith and Jesus’ righteousness (not their own). However, I must stand by the Apostle Paul in holding that those who believe they can earn salvation by their own works are not actually Christians. For, they reject a fundamental truth that defines how one becomes a Christian.
This does mean that many Catholics are not actually Christians. There are certainly many Catholics that acknowledge that they are completely dependent on Jesus’ righteous, and that they cannot do anything to add to it or earn favor from God by works. These Catholics are certainly Christians.
With regard to the JW faith, it is emphatically anti-Christian for many reasons, not just the issue of works being necessary to be saved. They deny the universally accepted Christian creeds. If you reject the foundational Christian creeds and doctrinal beliefs, you cannot legitimately claim to be a Christian. They reject the notion of God being three persons in one being (a core doctrinal position held by EVERY SINGLE Christian Creed). They even deny the deity of Jesus Christ. If you don’t believe in the same Christ, in what way can you be Christian? So, if being a Christian means anything at all, then it is clear that the JW faith (and the Mormon faith, for that matter) is not Christian (regardless of what they claim). An apple can claim to be an orange, but it doesn’t make it one.
you said. . .
Are you actually asking because you want to know what the bible actually says? If so, the answer is no. The bible doesn’t say that, not even once (much less “billions of times”). What the bible says is that EVERY SINGLE person is going to hell because we have ALL sinned against a Holy and righteous God. It is not about doing certain things and not doing others. We have all rejected God and gone our own way. We are all in the same boat here. It is not that some people who do good will earn heaven and other who do bad will earn hell. That is certainly not the teaching of the bible. See for yourself:
You also said . . .
Again, the bible doesn’t say that only those who do “certain kinds of things” are going to hell. It says we all are. We all are equally guilty. You are correct, that isn’t love. We have no love for God. We reject Him and intentionally thumb our nose at Him and choose to reject His way.
But here is the love part. Here is the part that establishes the meaning of love (far from “losing its meaning”).
This is the love, that God would not merely let us perish in the death and punishment of our own choosing; that He chose to save us even while we were actively rebelling against Him and walking away from Him; that He chose to enter into our mess, be hated, cursed, mocked, rejected, abused, tortured and murdered all for the very people doing these things to Him! That He would respond with grace and mercy instead of condemnation and judgment (even though it was rightly deserved). That He would provide you and everyone with an offer to repent and turn back to Him. That He would pay for all of your sin Himself if you will accept His payment in your place.
That is love. That is how we know what real love is. Real love is not self-seeking. It is sacrificing yourself for someone else. This is precisely what Jesus did for you. He died in your place. And, no other religion in the world can say the same. What is there like this sacrifice and love in any world religion?
The question you must answer is what is your response to this love? Will you embrace it and accept it, or will you continue to reject it? The choice is yours, alone. If you choose to continue thumbing your nose at God and rebelling against Him, you will not go to hell because you do “certain kinds of things”. You will go to hell because you rejected God and turned your back on Him. You will go to hell because you refuse to acknowledge Him as God and desire to usurp His place, and to be your own god. You will go to hell because you ignored His loving sacrifice for you and rejected Jesus Christ, His offer for salvation. As John 3 says (quoted above) you are already condemned because you have not believed in the Son of God.
It is my prayer for you that you will not continue to reject God, but will be shaken to your core by the amazing love for you He has shown by His sacrifice. It is my prayer that you will see how unique this is from any other faith in the world. I pray you will choose to embrace the God who cared so much for you that He was unwilling for you to ignorantly choose your own destruction. He was willing to die for you so that you could see His love in action and to provide you with an opportunity to embrace it.
God bless,
Jake
March 25, 2016 at 3:53 am
Dear Jake,
Thank you for a stimulating article which has certainly provoked a wide-ranging debate. May I add a few observations? First, whilst I entirely age that the clear testimony of scripture is that we are saved by grace not the law, I question your effectively equating “religion” with the law. The etymology of the word “religion” is in fact “bond” which is another word for relationship. I cannot see that anyone has so far cited the Letter Hebrews where Christianity is explicitly described as “God’s religion”. I suggest that the writer of that epistle is using the word religion in the good sense of the bond between God and humankind. In searching for a metaphor for that bond, the Letter to the Ephesians uses the image of marriage-thereby following one tradition from the Hebrew Scriptures. The indissoluble life-long bond of Christian marriage depends on two things: the original consent to embark on a new way of life-encapsulated in vows- and the daily remembrance of those vows as the couple journey through life together. So too in the Christian life, there must first be an acceptance of the free gift of salvation and then there must be the journey of faith in which the Christian is conformed more and more to the image of Christ. I draw your attention to the tenses of the verbs in the text: “those whom he has called, he has justified and those whom he has justified he is sanctifying.” That is why we are on the way to salvation. Such a journey needs milestones and a map. Just as in marriage one celebrates anniversaries and affirms one’s vows by acts of love and these provide a framework for the relationship so too there has to be a framework for the Christian life. The Lord himself commands us to celebrate the greatest framework of all-the Eucharist. We cannot doubt that this forms part of the original kerygma because St Paul’s account of the Eucharist is one of the oldest parts of the New Testament. Furthermore, the New Testament writers make it clear that we must not absent ourselves from the “meetings of the assembly”. So whilst I wholeheartedly agree with you that salvation is a free gift of the incarnate Word of God, I think that insofar as you appear to be rejecting the sacramental and communal aspects of Christian living you are not giving due weight to what it means to be part of a “holy priesthood, a people set apart”.
Yours in Christ,
Gary O’Brien
March 25, 2016 at 11:33 am
I would answer as to why I follow this religion that I am not following a religion but the person of Jesus Christ. He is the Son of God and unlike leaders of other “religions”, He is the only one to rise from the dead. He paid the price for all of my sins so that I am pronounced “not guilty” by God. Not because I’m good in any way, but because Jesus sacrificially, motivated by great love for me, paid the price for all of my sins. It was a debt I could not pay.
March 28, 2016 at 8:56 am
Gary,
Thanks for your comment. I think you will find that we agree more than we disagree. As is frequently the case with this particular word, I think we mostly disagree on the definition, not the actual practice and substance of the Christian faith.
However, while I agree with you that the etymology of the word religion comes from the word “bond”, I do take some issue with your interpretation that this bond means relationship. In fact, as I dig into the origin of the word religion, I find the opposite to be true. This bond is in the sense of obligation, of being tied down, being held captive, in essence bound in chains. This is the meaning Paul uses when he talks about being held “captive to the law” (e.g. Rom 7:6). Consider how Thomas Pain describes the word religion:
Another writer describes it this way. . .
Thus, I think the history and root of the word religion is that is an obligation, a vow to fulfill a duty through the performance of acts, of which you are tied to by compulsion. This does not at all convey, in my mind, the type of relationship described by Jesus or the Apostles. Our relationship is certainly and undeniably not dependent or conditional upon the performance of any duties or acts. There certainly are duties we are called to perform, but this is after the relationship is established. The relationship is not conditional on them.
Despite what you claimed, I could not find the word “religion” in the book of Hebrews in any translation I searched. I looked at the ESV, NIV, KJV, NKJV, NLT, NASB, and the NRSV. Perhaps you can point me to the verse you are referring to?
I do know that the book of James calls ministering to widows and orphans “pure and faultless religion” (Jam 1:27). I certainly agree that it is. I have never claimed that religion is a bad thing in all situations and settings. There are many times when applying religion to yourself can be very helpful. Please read what I wrote about this in comment #99 above. All I have claimed is that religion is not the core of what Christianity is. Religion can be one expression of a person’s Christian faith, but it is not their faith. Just as feeding the poor is something that many Christians do and should do, it isn’t what makes you a Christian. It is not the defining characteristic of what it means to be a Christian. If it is, then there would be nothing different from Christianity and any other religion.
With regard to the Eucharist (we call it Communion) and meeting together regularly, I think you misunderstand me. I do not at all diminish their importance or neglect their significance. I, personally, attend Church every Sunday and also have numerous meetings and bible studies throughout the week. We also observe Communion every week in my church. One could even say I was “religious” about it. I only tell you that to illustrate that my belief that Christianity is not a religion doesn’t mean that I, myself, see no value in religious practice. I just simply believe that my motivation behind doing these things is not that of obligation, chain or bond, but rather out of joy, love, celebration and thanksgiving. In short, I do not do them because I believe I have to, or else. . . I do them because I desire to. I do them because I love God and want to show my appreciation and gratitude to Him for what He was done for me. I do not believe that if I do not do them, I will be punished or that I will lose my salvation. I do not believe that by doing them I earn favor from God or that I can make Him love me anymore. I do them as a natural outpouring of the love He grows within me for Him. They are the result of fruit that the Holy Spirit produces in my heart (Gal 5:22). This is how Christianity is not the same as other religions that are truly religious about the works they demand of their followers.
For a more complete response to your concern of the Eucharist, see my comment #95 above.
Thanks again for your comment. I hope I have helped clarify my meaning some.
God bless,
Jake M
March 31, 2016 at 10:39 pm
So great and well presented.. thanks
April 13, 2016 at 5:20 am
Is there any way I can get a copy of Why Christianity is not a religion? Great learning materials.
April 14, 2016 at 8:12 am
Where can I get the book?How good is good enough.
April 26, 2016 at 8:05 am
indeed christianity is a way of life… the way Jesus lived same is expected of us all as christians
April 26, 2016 at 3:34 pm
I think we all agree on that much. But if you think you living like Jesus earns you the right to salvation, then we aren’t on the same page.
May 9, 2016 at 3:15 am
Jake, I am writing this from Japan and I praise God for bringing me to this page. Through you God has sent many messages that I can learn to grow as a Christian. I want to thank you and of course our Father in heaven. Please keep it going and may the Holy Spirit and God’s love always be with you.
Ray
May 22, 2016 at 5:49 am
Hellow sir thanks for this post.. I was just preparing word of god for tommorrows fellowship and somehow i got into ur post..that was really awesome…. god bless u and please keep on posting 🙂
May 23, 2016 at 11:36 am
Hello Pastor Jake, I’m blessed by many of your answers posted here on complex & complicated topics. I’m not a matured believer yet but got born again just few years back (former Hindu back ground) and my young daughters got saved recently. Sometimes my daughter and I both have the same question comes up in mind about origin on SIN. Can you please provide biblical view or some scriptures that can help us to understand the origin of evil?
It’s really easy to understand & believe Adam’s fall as Devil was already there & free WILL etc but I have difficulty to understand the first SIN of Lucifer.
In God there is no darkness, and, Lucifer was in the very presence of God. Then, Pride came into him and he was fallen from heaven. How evil idea or thought did come to Lucifer in the presence of Holy God?
Someone pointed our Isaiah 45:7 but I’m sure it does Not talk about evil or sin but calamity or disaster (judgement).
May 24, 2016 at 10:04 am
Bhav,
Thanks for this question. It is a good one, probably one of the toughest that Christians must wrestle with. It would be arrogant of me to presume I have the final answer to this question. I do not. Countless theologians, much smarter and more learned than I, have debated this for millennia and have not been able to irrefutably, completely and convincingly answer the question of where evil comes from. I have my own thoughts on it (called my own “theodicy”) but I am certain there are many holes in it. The bottom line is that we know there is a God and that He is good. Yet evil is a reality in the world. It got here somehow. We just don’t know, for sure how. The truth is, we may never know this answer until we can ask God directly in heaven.
That being said, I will attempt to give you a short version of my personal theodicy. As I said, others may disagree and think about this problem differently. They may be right, too. Although, I suspect that all of us will be at least somewhat surprised when God reveals the truth to us someday.
You are very correct that with God there is no darkness. But, what is darkness? Is it a thing, or the absence of a thing? It is the absence of light, correct? This distinction will be important as we think about sin and evil, so keep it in mind. There is a reason the bible uses darkness as an analogy for evil.
It is important to remember that God did not create evil. This is because evil is not a thing. Rather, it is the absence of a thing. It is the absence of holiness and righteousness; just like cold isn’t a thing but is, rather, the absence of heat. Darkness isn’t a thing, but rather, the absence of light. According to my theodicy, what God created was a world in which it was possible for his creations to freely choose to reject His light and heat; to reject His holiness and righteousness. The absence of these character traits of God is what we call evil. William Lane Craig explains this in this short video clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFwTjNWfuWA
God is the only being in the universe that is so perfect in nature that He is free and immune from temptation (Jam 1:13). The rest of His created universe is lower than Him, obviously. We are all inferior to God in every aspect. We are not divine. We do not have perfect and complete wisdom, knowledge, understanding. God cannot reproduce Himself. That which is created is, by definition, not God.
Some people hold that it would be impossible for the idea of a sinful action to arise in the mind of a creature without a prior prompting or proclivity to sin. However I don’t agree with that. I see it as morally neutral to have competing ideas in one’s mind. I think that the natural and unavoidable result of a creature possessing both intelligence and moral freedom is that they must also be able to conceptualize both good and evil actions. Thinking on and understanding evil is not itself sin. God does this, even though He does not sin.
This means that Lucifer could, according to my theodicy, conceive of the notion of rebelling against God without having that notion be sin. The difficult question is why would he elect to give into that notion instead of choosing to continue in obedience to God? That’s the tough question, and I don’t know the answer. It is the same with Adam and Eve. They could have resisted the Serpent’s idea and chosen to stay faithful to their creator. What made them choose sin? This is a profound mystery that we may never solve completely. The bible doesn’t explain what was going on in Lucifer or Eve’s mind in that moment.
All we do know is that God gave them all the ability to reject His path. He created them with the capacity of free choice. That means He created them with the capacity to freely choose to make mistakes. The reason for this seems pretty clear. He did so because He believed (correctly) that a world where His creations have the free capacity to choose to do right or wrong is the greatest possible world. It is greater than a world in which all of His creatures can only think and behave exactly as He desires. Love is meaningless unless a creature can choose to have that love. Loyalty is meaningless unless there is the possibility of betrayal. Kindness means nothing unless one could choose to be unkind. Etc.
The ability to conceptualize evil and consider it is not itself evil. Rather, I think it is an unavoidable result of having free will. A creature that has the mental ability to evaluate all options, and make the choice they believe is best, requires that creature to possess this ability. This means freely choosing to sin must be a legitimate option in such a world. If a creature cannot freely choose to sin, they also cannot freely choose to love.
The short answer to your question is that the angels also have this ability (like us). They are creatures that were created without a sinful nature, but with the ability to conceptualize and freely choose sinful actions (just like Adam and Eve). This means they are not naturally predisposed to sin, but this does not mean they are incapable of thinking of sinning or even of choosing to sin. It is only as a result of this that they can stand in heaven truly worshiping God, chanting “Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God almighty”. They really mean it. They are not robots. They do so out of their free will, which makes the worship meaningful. Otherwise it would mean nothing.
Conversely, however, it also means that it allows for some angles to choose to reject God and to sin, as Satan and his fellow fallen angels did. Being in the presence of God does not mean that their free will is overpowered and eliminated. Instead of choosing to allow the immense, overwhelming and awe-inspiring presence of God to generate worship in their hearts, Satan and the other demons elected to allow it to create envy in their hearts. Satan wanted to have that glory for himself. He considered what it would be like to be the one receiving the worship, and elected to act on that thought. This is the same thing Adam and Eve did in the garden. The original thought and idea may have come from the Serpent, but it was mankind that considered the idea and chose to believe the lie over the truth. It was Adam and Eve who chose the course they would take and who acted on it. This is why mankind bears the guilt for sin, not only Satan.
But, you may ask, why did they choose this? That is the question we will wrestle with as long as we are on this earth. It would seem to us that, since they were in God’s presence and had no proclivity to sin, that they would be naturally inclined to obey God. But, they chose to not do so. It’s a profound mystery that I will not diminish or deny.
In an effort to provide my personal thinking on why this would happen, I can only speculate that God superintended it because He has a design and purpose for evil. That is a controversial statement, but one I do see scriptural support for. We know that God is sovereign over evil or He could not use it to work for the Good of all those who love Him and are called by Him (Rom 8:28). If evil is merely the absence of godliness, it would seem He could end it by simply overpowering it and filling it with His goodness. Indeed, this is what He will do some day. The fact that He has not done this now (and that he allowed evil to enter the world in the first place) implies to me that He has some purpose that He is accomplishing through the presence of evil. Evil is not good, but good can come from evil. God, in his infinite wisdom, may be allowing evil to exist in order to bring about some end He sees as more worth it in the long run. As some small examples, consider that without the presence of evil and suffering we would never experience: compassion, mercy, sacrificial love, patience, camaraderie, courage or strength of character. These virtues have no meaning without the backdrop of evil and suffering.
We think that we are the stars of this drama we are in. We have this view that God, if He exists, is there to help us act out our parts in the story, like He is some supporting character in a play about us. However, it’s the other way around. This is the only way that makes any sense if God exists. He created us. He created the supporting cast in HIS story. All of this is about Him. The Bible makes it clear that all of it, the entire saga of human history, is about Jesus Christ (Col 1:16). We exist so that Jesus can be most glorified. This is why I have repeatedly stated in this response that our purpose is to “bring glory to Him and enjoy Him forever”. That’s why we exist.
I think it is likely that God, in His infinite wisdom, has determined that the greatest way to reveal and demonstrate the insurpassing value, worth, and love of Christ is by allowing Him to choose to sacrifice Himself and die for us! This requires the presence of evil, sin and death. We can dispute His wisdom if we want, but that just revels our egocentric view and our inherent belief that it is really all about us and not Him. If God is truly worthy of infinite praise and adoration, does it not follow that He has the right to create creatures whose entire purpose is to reflect His glory and to participate in the Father’s exalting of His son (in the greatest possible way that God can conceive of)? Doesn’t it also make sense that He might want to create creatures with the capacity to choose to worship and love Him or not? Doesn’t it seem reasonable that He may (in his sovereignty and ability to use all events to accomplish His purpose) choose to use the choices of those who decided to not fulfill their purpose to bring about the exaltation of Jesus Christ in the greatest possible manner? This is what the Bible says. I think this is logical, once one gets past everything being about them.
Dr. john piper explains this viewpoint well in this short video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qpMtg48f6s&feature=related
If you would like a more in depth look at this topic than I can provide here, I would suggest this video from Dr. R.C. Sproul. It is a little intellectually intense, but also immensely helpful: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ir6pKEV0RQ
I know that I have probably not helped that much with this. I am OK with that. I will not pretend to know more than I do, or claim I can answer a question that better men than me have not. But hopefully, I may have provided something that can serve as a launch pad for you to build your own theodicy from. None of our theodices will likely be complete (because we cannot understand an infinite God) but hopefully they at least point in the direction of the truth. Don’t let the fact that you cannot completely understand God and His plan discourage you from following Him. A God that could be completely contained in the box we build for Him is not worthy of our worship. Also be comforted that, like Dr. Sproul says, other worldviews have a MUCH BIGGER problem of evil than we do.
God bless,
Jake
May 24, 2016 at 11:45 am
Thank You Very Much Pastor Jake for taking time to answer my question with so much in-depth insight. I got so much other revelation & understanding from your detail post. Your humility is truly inspiring.
Agreed, The bottom line is that we know there is a God and that He is good.
God Bless You!
Thanks again,
Bhav
June 5, 2016 at 4:41 am
Pastor Jake, Thank you…..
I’m a Christian but i’m always confused and doubtful if im truly saved and have a lot of questions all the time
Thank God for this answered prayer😃😃 This is amazing
God Bless you always, and continue working wonderfully in you and your life😃😃❤️❤️Youre such a blessing…..
To God be the glory❤️
June 29, 2016 at 1:54 pm
http://biblehub.com/1_corinthians/6-11.htm
“And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.”
By your analysis, Judaism might not be a religion. Islam might not be a religion. But Christianity is a different kettle of fish.
Romans 1:17
“For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, ‘The righteous shall live by faith.’”
And this.
http://biblehub.com/bsb/galatians/3.htm
“10All who rely on works of the Law are under a curse. For it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”c 11And it is clear that no one is justified before God by the Law, because, “The righteous will live by faith.”d 12The Law, however, is not based on faith; on the contrary, “The one who does these things will live by them.”e
13Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law by becoming a curse for us. For it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.”f 14He redeemed us so that the blessing promised to Abraham would come to the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit. “
June 29, 2016 at 2:07 pm
Sam,
I am not sure I understand your critique. I fully agree with all the bible passages you listed. However, I don’t see how they support your claim that Judaism and Islam are not religious but Christianity is. In fact, the verses you list seem to illustrate the opposite, that Christianity is based on faith and not works. . . which is exactly the point of this blog post.
Jake
July 11, 2016 at 11:29 am
This was great except near the end it sounds as if the church in general should avoided or disregarded which would not agree with scripture, where we are told to “forsake not the assembling together as believers.” While there are some problems with churches in general, they should not all be discounted or disregarded. Maybe I misunderstood what was to be portrayed there exactly but it sounded that way to me. Otherwise, great read!
July 11, 2016 at 12:22 pm
Deborah,
Thanks for the comment. I totally agree with you about the necessity of being part of a local church. I never meant to imply otherwise in this blog. I am sorry if I gave that impression. I certainly didn’t intend to. Consider what I said about this in Comments #5, 70 and 160 above.
God bless,
Jake
July 14, 2016 at 12:31 pm
I really enjoyed your article! I have been using some of this in my studies and also for teaching Romans and Galatians. I was wondering how you would respond to someone who tries to use James1:26-27 to claim that Christianity is a religion? Thanks, and God bless!
July 14, 2016 at 1:27 pm
Harry,
Thanks for the comment. I actually think what I have written here aligns perfectly with what is written by James in chapter 1 of his book. Consider what I said in comments #99 and #148 above. Hopefully you will find your question adequately addressed there. Let me know if you still have a question after reading that.
God bless,
Jake
July 14, 2016 at 4:13 pm
I have been richly blessed by what I have read and thanks very much please send me some material to read because I’m a servant of God
July 15, 2016 at 6:01 pm
We both know evil people can use religion and abuse it but religion is not evil nor sin and God accepts Righteous Religion under the former old covenant and at present under the covenant:James 1:27 we have a personal relationship with God the Father as son/daughter and with Jesus as brother/sister. But James 1:27 destroys your thinking that Gods teachings are null of acceptable religion.
You can either suppress this passage and twist it or just plainly accept what God had to say about religion.
July 15, 2016 at 10:59 pm
Satan chooses to mislead man in anyway he can. And alot of us let him. hes definitely going to hell why should we accept his invitation to join him? Because life got a little hard? Or because a person who accepted satans invitation (a disbeliever) invited us? Life gets hard for all. Believer or disbeliever how does becoming someone who rejects God cure you?
July 16, 2016 at 4:30 pm
Your essay was very informative. You’ve researched a lot of facts.
1. Unfortunately, your fact about “Jesus Christ is God” is not correct: ” ◄ John 5:30 ►, Parallel Verses, New International Version,
By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me.” Also, there are so many more facts in the Bible to support me. Please find it in your heart to correct it.
2. Where in the Bible does Christianity say that God came in the form of Jesus Christ? No where.
The Catholic Church’s form of Christianity says this; it’s not in the Bible. The Catholic Church added this to their doctrine; it’s their form of Christianity and others who follow their teachings; There is no trinity in the Bible.
That is why I’m a Christian and not Catholic. Sincerely, Your Brother in the Faith, Leslie
July 18, 2016 at 10:07 am
Leslie Ortiz,
Thank you for your comment and thank you for the opportunity to present a brief case for the deity of Jesus Christ. Your challenge can be easily met and your claim that the bible does not assert that Jesus Christ is God can be thoroughly refuted.
First, I would like to point out that the claim that Jesus is God is not merely a Catholic belief. I am not Catholic! In fact, every single Christian denomination asserts and agrees with the claim that Jesus is God. This refers to all Catholics and Protestants alike. This is one of the defining beliefs for what it means to call oneself a Christian. It is an Essential Doctrine of the Christian faith. If one does not affirm the deity of Jesus Christ, one is NOT a Christian, by definition. If you are part of a faith that teaches that Jesus is not God, then you are not part of the Christian Church. You are a member of a cult, and not a brother in faith.
Secondly, your assertion that the Catholic Church added the claim that Jesus is God to Christian doctrine is simply historically inaccurate. The universally accepted doctrine of Jesus Christ’s deity was formalized by the early Christian Church in the First Council of Nicea in 325 AD. This is before any notion of the “Catholic Church” existed and before it became the official Church of Rome. It is important to note that this was the first ever council of Christian church leaders. Before this point there were just the bible and individual writings of church leaders. At their first every council, they firmly established the divinity of Jesus.
Additionally, we have a plethora of writings of early Church fathers well before this Council which clearly demonstrate their understanding that Jesus was God. This shows that this idea was widely accepted even before it was codified as an Essential Doctrine of the Christian faith. Here are 18 examples of the many church fathers whose writings claim Jesus was God, showing a clear pattern of consistent teaching on this issue, from the earliest material we have of the Christian faith, up through the Council in 325 AD:
• Epistle of Barnabas (AD 70)
• Ignatius of Antioch (AD 110)
• Aristides (AD 140)
• Polycarp of Smyrna (AD 150)
• Justin Martyr (AD 160)
• Tatian the Syrian (AD 170)
• Melito of Sardis (AD 177)
• Irenaeus (AD 189)
• Clement of Alexandria (AD 190)
• Tertullian (AD 210)
• Caius (AD 215)
• Origen (AD 225)
• Hippolytus (AD 228)
• Novatian (AD 235)
• Cyprian of Carthage (AD 253)
• Gregory the Wonderworker (AD 265)
• Arnobius (AD 305)
• Lactantius (AD 307)
If you would like quotations from the writings of these early Christian writers that demonstrate their belief in the deity of Jesus Christ, I can certainly provide it.
By 325 AD, when the Council of church leaders met, the Doctrine of the Divinity of Jesus was not even under debate. 318 church leaders attended the council. There was no Catholic hierarchy at this time. They did, however take a vote on the divinity of Christ to put an end to some false teaching that had arisen. It was not a close vote. It was 316 to 2. What is more, all in attendance agreed Jesus was God and not just a man (including the two dissenters)! We have the documents that prove this. The debate was very well recorded. The two dissenters did not object to the divinity of Jesus, rather they objected to his humanity. The main challenge to Christianity at this time was Gnosticism and Docetism. Both of these false teachings actually affirmed Jesus’ divinity. They rather denied his humanity. Even the false teachers at the time did not contest the divinity of Jesus (we have their writings too). Thus, the divinity of Jesus was NOT the invention of the Catholic Church.
What is more is that the claim that Jesus is God is overtly and explicitly made in the New Testament, itself, despite your claim to the contrary. You said that Jesus never claimed to be God. However, I have already listed many clear examples from the gospels of occasions where Jesus did just that in comment #153 above. Please explain to me, if you can, how each of these is not a claim to deity.
Additionally, you claimed that nowhere in the bible does it “say that God came in the form of Jesus Christ”. However, here are a few of the places that it CLEARLY does. First, answer this question regarding the following passage: who is being described here.
Who is the unchangeable, eternal, all powerful creator described in the psalm above? I would expect you to agree that it is none other than Jehovah God, correct? After all, who else has these divine attributes? Additionally, verse 1 of the psalm identifies it as talking about Jehovah. The whole psalm is a prayer to God. Now let us consider a New Testament passage:
Now, who is being described here? The writer of Hebrews is speaking of the Son, Jesus Christ. This whole section of the book (Hebrews 1-3) is talking about Jesus Christ. Yet, the author directly quotes Psalm 102:25-27 and applies this description to Jesus! If Jesus is not God, this can be nothing other than blasphemy. The author of Hebrews undeniably says these attributes apply to the Son. And, the same attributes in this passage are used to describe Jehovah in Ps 102. These are divine attributes. This is only reconcilable if one concedes that Jehovah and the Son are one and the same.
I could give so many clear texts that show Jesus is God. Here is one more. Let’s look at John 1:3.
The context here is un-debatable. I am sure they you would agree with me that John 1 is talking about Jesus (as made clear by verse 14). Now, let us consider exactly what John claims about Jesus in the verse above. If Jesus is not God, then it follows that he is a created being. There are only two categories of things that exist:
1) Things that never came into being (thus, always existed)
2) Things that came into being (all created things)
By definition, everything in category 1 is God. If something never came into being but always existed, it is eternal, unchanging, and immutable. Everything else (angels, you, me, matter, animals, etc.) falls into category 2 (all created things). According to the law of excluded middle either a thing was created or it wasn’t created—there is no third option—so the two categories are all-encompassing.
Now, which category does Jesus go in? It would seem you claim he goes into category 2. But, here is the problem with that claim: the verse above (John 1:3) excludes that as an option. It explicitly says that everything in category 2 was made BY JESUS! “Apart from Jesus nothing was made that was made”. If Jesus caused all created things to come into existence, then He must have existed before all created things came into existence. Therefore, the Word [Jesus] could not have been created. Did Jesus create Himself?
Notice that this verse doesn’t even hinge on the issue of if all things were created “by” Jesus or merely “through” Jesus. The point is that, in either case, Jesus existed before the creation of all things. So, he can’t, by definition, be in category 2. If Jesus can’t be placed in category 2 with created things, then He must go in category 1 with uncreated things, identifying Jesus as the uncreated Creator. Jesus is God.
Like I said, I could write so much on the clear evidence from scripture on the divinity of Jesus. However, I think this is a good starting point (along with the claims of Jesus I already listed in comment #153). Let me give you one other point to consider, there are several places in the New Testament where Jesus is directly called Yahweh (the Hebrew name for God). 1 Corinthians 1:2 and Romans 10:13 draw upon an Old Testament passage referring to Yahweh, which was the unique Hebrew name for God, and apply them to Jesus. Paul did this by applying monotheistic passages from the Old Testament to Jesus Christ. Consider the following OT quotations by Paul:
• Joel 2:32 quoted in Rom 10:13
• Jer 9:24 quoted in 1 Cor 1:31
• Isa 40:13 quoted in 1 Cor 2:16
• Ps 24:1 quoted in 1 Cor 10:26
• Jer 9:24 quoted in 2 Cor 10:17
These are just a few of the many examples. I encourage you to look these up. The OT passages are clearly describing God and Paul applies them directly to Jesus.
Also, let me ask you this: if Jesus is not God and Jews only pray to God, why did the early Jewish Christians pray specifically TO JESUS? The early Christians prayed to Jesus for his return and for blessing and were even described as those who call upon the name of the Lord Jesus, which likely indicate that such prayer was a regular part of their devotional practices (see 1 Cor 1:2; 16:22; 2 Cor 12:8 and Rom 10:13). Additionally, they composed hymns describing Jesus as pre-existent and active in the themes of creation, redemption, and end-time salvation (e.g. Phil 2:6-11). Only God was the Creator, and for Jesus to share in that action indicates that He could be uniquely viewed as sharing in God’s identity or being God Himself. Likewise, the fact that Paul thought of Jesus as pre-existent indicates his vies of Jesus’ deity (e.g. 2 Cor 8:8-9 and Phil 2:6-11).
All of the above scriptural evidence helps put your quote from John 5:30 in context. You will note that the verse you cite doesn’t actually claim that Jesus isn’t God. Rather, it is simply Jesus saying that he cannot do anything “by himself”. However, this falls in line with the traditional, orthodox, Christian claim that Jesus is God and one with the Father. It is certainly true that Jesus cannot do anything on His own, that is to say, apart from or outside the will of, the Father. Jesus and the Father are one. Therefore, whatever Jesus does, the Father does. And whatever the Father’s will is, Jesus does. It is true that Jesus, the Father and the Holy Spirit are individual persons, but they are also part of One Being. They act in unison and in harmony. One cannot be opposed to the other. One cannot act alone. Thus, Jesus’ statement in the verse you quote is in alignment and is compatible with the Christian notion of the Trinity. It cannot be used to argue against it. In fact, this verse actually provides scriptural support of the idea of the Trinity. If Jesus cannot act independently of the Father, this illustrates their unity. It demonstrates that Jesus and the Father are truly One. If this is the best text you can provide to attempt to refute the well established doctrine of the Trinity, then I’m afraid it is at no risk.
Perhaps I should reverse your challenge. What biblical passage can you cite that clearly says that Jesus is not God? Please provide a passage that doesn’t align with the biblical notion of One God consisting of three individual Persons. For example, John 5:30 doesn’t qualify because it falls in line with Trinitarian theology, as I illustrated.
God bless,
Jake M.
July 18, 2016 at 3:28 pm
Joseph Kuzara,
I never claimed religion was evil or sin (in all situation). Where do you see me say that? That is a straw man of my position. James 1:27 does not “destroy my thinking”, because I am not saying that religion is bad. I am simply saying that, at its core, Christianity isn’t religious. It isn’t based on your performance. I neither suppress nor twist the passage from James. As I have repeatedly explained my view aligns and is even supported by that passage in James (once you actually comprehend what I am saying). Please read comments #99 and #148 above for a detailed explanation of the passage from James 1.
Jake
July 28, 2016 at 7:02 am
Luckily, Paul says that women are saved thru childbearing. I’ve been saved 3 times.
July 28, 2016 at 7:57 am
Debra,
Thanks for the comment. I believe you misinterpret Paul’s statement in 1 Timothy 2:15. Admittedly, his statement there is confusing and difficult to understand. In order to arrive at a correct understanding of what he means there, we need to put that comment in context with the rest of his teaching on the subject (as well as the teaching of the rest of the bible). When we do this we can clearly see that what is required for salvation is faith in Jesus Christ, alone. For help in understand what Paul meant in that context by that remark, I would suggest this article: http://www.desiringgod.org/articles/how-are-women-saved-through-childbearing
August 2, 2016 at 6:17 pm
Wow it is so interesting it let me to get answers to my questions. May God bless u more and more
August 10, 2016 at 3:36 pm
I don’t have a Religous bone in my body. I follow Jesus Not Man. There will always be authority and God tells us to line up under the authority placed over you. I have seen many men in ministry give a lot of instruction and sometimes this is needed for organization and if there is Growth but I have listened closely several times and feel the flesh from this leader and if I only hear The Name of JESUS at the end of the Service…..it does not Bare witness. The great commission was JESUS instructions to us all. Not come in and be like us. Or us 4 and no more. It’s ” Go yea out and preach the Gospel. I am just a man but I serve at the feet of JESUS. Jesus was a dynamic leader(greatest understatement) and he gave instruction but led his disciples to walk right long side of him. If you do not hear JESUS the whole time your in a church …. Be careful and check it out. You may be serving immature man. Serve JESUS. He will see everything else falls in place. Read THE RED LETTERS. GET FREE IN JESUS AND STAY FREE IN JESUS AND OBEY HIM NOT MANS RULES. THE RELIGIOUS KILLED MY LORD AND SAVIOR. just an old mans view. Find out for yourself. See how many Souls are being saved. Good barometer. Peace.
August 19, 2016 at 7:06 pm
Thanks very much coz i have been labouring to fulfill yet not remembering that Jesus said” come to me all of u who are labouring to fulfill the law and i will give you a light load”
August 23, 2016 at 10:58 am
Hi, Jake, I’m just testing to see if I can post something. Have tried several times without success.
August 23, 2016 at 11:44 am
Yes, Debbie you may post. I have seen your previous comment. I replied concerning your comment to the email address you provided with your comment. It appears you did you not receive it? If not, please provide me with an email address that will work and I will send you my response.
Jake
August 25, 2016 at 12:44 pm
When God is drawing us to Him, Satan is trying his utmost to turn us from finishing the race. Remember that good man Job and Satan’s boast that Job loved God because of the blessings bestowed upon him. Satan said that if God withdrew the fence around Job, that he’d curse God to his face. Sometimes, when everything seems to be coming down upon our heads, and the physical, mental and spiritual pain is running down upon us and we feel as though God is not to be found; this is precisely when we need to understand that these sorrows are bringing us to a far deeper relationship with our God who uses all things to perfect us. Trust God in the valley of death. You are not lost, He knows exactly where you are. He is always beside those who are His. He walks alongside and perfects His own. God is perfecting those whom he loves and when our last breath is drawn on this earth, we will be given what glorious bodies await us in His Kingdom of Heaven. Paul admonished us to finish the race. Satan would have us fall. Elaine, a believer in Jesus since I was nine (I am soon to be 65).
August 25, 2016 at 6:25 pm
Hi Jake thanks for your inspiring message. I’d like to point out a few things you’ve mentioned in previous comments concerning: 1. eternal hell and secondly entering hell or heaven as soon as you die.
I’ll address the first topic.
I do not believe eternal hell fire exists ( that is, eternally burning as long as the righteous live eternally). The bible mentions in Jude 1:7 about Soddom and Gomorrah being destroyed by eternal fire. It is not still burning. So i learn that the word ‘eternal fire’ means destroying something so it may eternally never exist. Just like burning paper in your hand, the fire stops when the paper has turned to ash or consumed it.
I understand that you said that God is a loving God and also a Just God (Wrath towards sin) therefore there is a penalty for sin, the wages of sin is death. In saying all this is God a God of eternal punishment? God devours up sin and burns it eternally for it to never exist. How is someone eternally in hell not in existence? he is still there in whatever state he would be if hell existed. So he exists, therefore God has not dealt with the issue, and never will as long as the person is in ‘hell’.
Secondly
In a previous comment response you mentioned that Moses and Elijah were present to Christ on the mount which is true, but Moses, Elijah and Enoch were the very few who were taken to heaven. (Elijah and Enoch not tasting death). So to use these characters to justify that a believer enters heaven or hell immediately would not make sense. Furthermore reading from Ecclesiastes 9:5-10 it mentions that “But the dead know nothing, And they have no reward, For the memory of them is forgotten.” verse 10 “… for there is no work or device or knowledge or wisdom in the grave where you are going.” Another example is Lazarus who ‘slept’ for 4 days. He was dead but Christ resurrected him. Wouldn’t Lazarus already be in heaven before Christ had the chance to resurrect him?
So i’m no expert. But thinking of someone burning for eternity goes against the nature of God don’t you think? He brings Justice, not injustice, and that to me sounds like injustice, sin is sin, it deserves to be destroyed not constantly being destroyed. I see hell as torture, an unbeliever does not deserve torture. It’s like saying God is perfectly just, and he is our judge but he has sentenced an unbelieving sinning man to torture. Really? and oh yea its for eternity! nope. God with his perfect holiness will merely look upon that mans eyes, and the man who is sinful will not be able to see his holiness without being destroyed. There is no hell! the only hell that exists is not being able to be part of God’s kingdom!
And i also think the reason why God didn’t create hell (other than the obvious reason that its not God like) was to not create a fear factor for people, like saying you might go to hell! so believe in God! How many of us are actually afraid of going to hell so we try to do good! rather than pushing the message of Love and not fear. A lottt of people! anways.. would be great to hear from you.
God bless everyone!
August 26, 2016 at 11:33 am
Nathan,
Thank you for your comment. You bring up two points of disagreement with Orthodox Christian doctrine:
1) The idea of eternal punishment in hell
2) The notion that believers go immediately to heaven upon death
I will address each one.
I find it instructive that it appears your objection to the notion of eternal punishment for non-believers originates from your concept of what you think a good God should be like and what He should and should not do. You said, “thinking of someone burning for eternity goes against the nature of God don’t you think?”
I point this out because basing your theology and thinking off of what you, personally, think God should do is a dangerous practice. We are human and our ideas and thoughts are so much beneath God’s that we cannot at all see the whole picture.
We naturally elevate our importance. We naturally inflate our tiny view of things to the level of God’s. We naturally minimize the severity and offense of our sin. There are many things the Almighty God does that I personally wouldn’t choose to do (such as order the Israelites to murder all the men, women and children of the Canaanites and Amalekites). There are many things he allows to occur that I think I would not allow (like terrorist attacks, school shootings, cancer, etc.). But, this is because I have a minuscule mind, an incomprehensibly small wisdom and an insignificant knowledge of the whole picture compared to God! If I could know all that He knows, if I could see all that He sees, if I could possess all the wisdom and goodness He has, then I would certainly agree with His way. This is why it is very dangerous to base your theology and doctrine around whether you think God would do something or not.
For example, you said “I see hell as torture, an unbeliever does not deserve torture”. But how do you know what and unbeliever deserves? How can you be so certain? Are you the completely righteous judge? As you rightly say, you are “no expert”. Nor am I. I would much prefer to allow the one who IS an expert and who IS perfect to make that call. And, I believe He has, and He has clearly communicated it to us in His word.
The proper way to form theology is to allow the scriptures to change and alter our ideas. The proper way to determine if God would do something or not is to let Scripture teach and inform us of the answer. Rather than coming to scripture and allowing it to tell you what to believe about hell, it is clear that you have formed an opinion of who you think God should be, and what He should do, and then taken that idea and attempted to force scripture to align with it. That is always a recipe for hermeneutical error.
Instead of reading Jude1:7 plainly as it naturally reads, you have tried to use it as justification for your preconceived position on hell. You weigh this one text so heavily, when there are so many much clearer texts on hell all over the NT. However, even this text speaks of eternal punishment. It doesn’t at all mean what you think it means. It is clear that Jude is talking about the people from the towns of Sodom and Gomorrah, not the physical buildings and cities.
Did the buildings indulge in sexual immorality? Did the trees, walls, wells, roads and markets pursue unnatural desires? Clearly not. Clearly it was the people of these towns that did so. Therefore it is the people who are now undergoing a punishment of eternal fire as an example for us. This is the logical and natural interpretation of this verse. It is the interpretation that bible scholars and theologians (very smart men who ARE experts) have virtually unanimously held for 2000 years! It is also the only interpretation one cam come to, unless they read this text with a preconceived idea of what God ought to do.
What is even more is that Jude provides his own interpretation of the text just a view verses later (which you seem to have ignored).
Why would utter darkness be reserved for them forever if they ceased to exist? Why point out forever? Further, the Orthodox interpretation of Jude 1:7 aligns with countless other biblical texts concerning hell and eternal punishment. For example, here are just a few of so many scriptures I could cite to show the reality of eternal punishment in hell. . .
This is Jesus speaking. He tells us that those who do not know Him will go to eternal punishment in the same way as those who are His go to eternal life. This verse is clear. You cannot deny the eternal nature of one without denying the eternal nature of the other. If the punishment isn’t eternal, neither is the life. It’s the same Greek word used in both cases. Notice that it doesn’t say death but rather punishment.
Notice that God is repaying those “with affliction” those who afflicted believers. Affliction implies suffering, not death. Notice also that part of this punishment is being separated from God’s presence. If non-believers ceased to exist, there would be no reason to point out they are separated from His presence.
Why point out weeping and gnashing of teeth if they were going to be killed? The point here is that this is ongoing suffering.
If the contempt is everlasting in the same way the life is everlasting.
The worms that eat them do not die and the fire that salts everyone is never put out. Why does the fire never go out? What is burning for eternity? The answer is provided in the first part of the verse. It is also stated here…
This is full strength wrath. Notice the word tormented (similar to your word, torture). It says this torment will last “forever and ever”. The smoke from this eternal fire of torment rises forever and ever. Those who are being tormented have no rest, day or night but are continually in torment, forever. This is pretty clear, man. Not sure your week misinterpretation of Jude 1:7 is going to stand up to this clear text.
Those who do not know Jesus are thrown into the same eternal fire that is for the Devil and demons. There is no separate (non-eternal) punishment for humans. (see also Rev 19:20)
This lake of fire will contain the devil and demons but also all the contents of Hades (which we have already established contains non-believers). In the lake of fire and sulfur “they will be tormented day and night forever and ever”. That doesn’t sound much like a quick and final end to me.
And don’t reply that it is only the demons and the devil that will suffer eternally, not people. There is nothing in these texts to suggest that. And, even if that were true, then God would still violate your standard for how a good God should behave, right? After all, would he be good (in your view) to allow theses fallen angels to endure eternal torture?
Perhaps we better let scripture inform us of what God will do instead of simply assuming what we think He should do, and trying to force scripture to comply with our idea. The reality here is that the bible clearly teaches the idea of eternal punishment. We may not like that or want to believe it, but it is what the bible says will happen. We are either going to let scripture be the standard that tells us who God is or not. But, there is simply no way to get around that this is a biblical teaching. All the bad hermeneutics and misinterpretation you can think of are not going to help you. It is simply too consistent and frequent of a teaching. If you toss out the doctrine of eternal punishment you will be forced to toss the whole thing out. Indeed, that is the slippery slope many modern “teachers” have taken (e.g. Rob Bell).
The problem with your idea that God wouldn’t be good if He allowed the torment of sinners is that you fail to understand the severity of sin. You, like most of us, think it’s not that bad. They don’t really deserve THAT, right? But it IS that bad. Sin is abhorrent to God. I encourage you to read this blog article I wrote on this subject: Grace – The Enormous Gap Between What I Deserve & What God has Given Me
It is very difficult for us to believe God could really punish people eternally because we think we are the center of the universe and that God owes us more than that. This reveals an underlying assumption that we have. At the root of our objection to this is the underlining assumption that people are deserving of good and entitled to benevolent treatment from God. The problem with this assumption is that it isn’t true. The unpleasant truth is just the opposite. In fact, we are deserving of eternal punishment and death because of our rebellion against God.
You see, you are thinking about sin backwards. It’s not only the severity of a person’s sin that determines the nature of the punishment. It is also the nature of the one who is sinned against that establishes the level of offense. We understand this principle. A crime against an animal is naturally considered more serious than a crime against plants. A crime against a human is punished more harshly than a crime against an animal. Slapping your brother in the face would earn you quite different level of punishment than if you slapped the President of the United States in the face. In the case of man’s sin against a perfect, holy, and eternal God, the sin may be minor from our perspective, but the offense is infinite because the One wronged is infinite. Sinning against an imperfect and finite person might merit temporal punishment, but sinning against a completely holy and eternal being merits eternal punishment. I highly encourage you to read this article from Stand to Reason that will provide more explanation than I have time to here: http://www.str.org/articles/is-eternal-punishment-just#.V8CKhnoSONg
The second point you raised was an objection to the Orthodox Christian teaching that believers go immediately to heaven upon death. Again, this is simply another example of not looking completely at what the whole of scripture teaches on the subject.
You claim that since Moses and Elijah were carried away to heaven (like Enoch) that their appearing on the Mount of Transfiguration with Jesus is not an indication that people go immediately to heaven when they die. There is one problem with this point: Moses wasn’t carried away to heaven! I give you the point that Elijah was. But, scripture is clear that Moses died and was buried here on earth.
That seems pretty clear. He died and was buried in the ground (it even gives the general location of his grave). Where do you get from this that he was carried away like Elijah and Enoch? If Moses really died and was buried (like everyone else) doesn’t this defeat your point and establish the one I was making about how Moses isn’t still asleep?
Additionally, you ignored the other biblical examples I gave in comment #30 that clearly teach against the idea the people sleep in the grave and don’t immediately go to heaven. What about Jesus’ comment to the thief on the cross, “Today you will be with me in Paradise“ (Luk 23:43)? What about Jesus’ rebuke of the Sadducees when he claimed that “God is not the God of the dead, but of the living” (Mk 12:27)? What about the fact that Jesus claimed He would never die (John 5:24 and 8:51)? What about the Apostle Paul’s clear teaching in 2 Cor 5:8, “absent from the body is to be present with the Lord”? Why did Paul desire to “depart and be with Christ, for that is far better” (Phil 1:23)?
Additionally, what about the story of the Rich man and Lazarus in Luke 16:19-31? This clearly shows the rich man dying, being buried and yet living in torment in Hades (v22-23). It shows Abraham currently living in heaven along with Lazarus, who has just died. We clearly know Abraham died and was buried (Gen 25:8). Yet he currently is alive in heaven, according to Jesus. The passage destroys both your points, clearly illustrating that those who don’t go to heaven continue living, that those who follow God do go to heaven, and that this occurs immediately after death.
There is also the passage in Hebrews 11 (culminating in 12:1) which states that we on earth are currently surround by “a great cloud of witnesses” (identified as those came before us and lived by faith). There is the fact that the Apostle John sees saints in heaven pleading with Jesus to return and judge the earth (Rev 6:9-11). I could keep going. There are so many examples that refute the doctrine of Soul Sleep to pick from.
With regard to your comments on Ecc 9:5-10 it is true that the author of that book (likely Solomon) didn’t have a complete idea of what would happen when you die. He admits this in Ecc 3:21. . .
He is very vocal about the fact that he doesn’t know a lot about this and other subjects. He frequently admits this in the book (e.g. 2:19, 11:1-6, etc.) But, we can also see that he is in progress, growing in his knowledge throughout the book. By the end it is clear he does have an notion of an afterlife.
Why would we use the speculation of a man who admits he doesn’t know what happens after we die as the text to base our doctrine of the afterlife on? There are many clearer texts and ones after had reveled more on this subject.
You also brought up Jesus raising Lazarus from the dead. “Wouldn’t Lazarus already be in heaven before Christ had the chance to resurrect him?” Certainly. Going to heaven and returning happens several times in the bible. The most prominent example of this is Jesus Christ, Himself. He was dead for 3 days, was in heaven during that time (Luk 23:43), and then was returned to his earthly body. Why wouldn’t we assume the same thing was true of Lazarus? I am sure Lazarus was in heaven for that time and then was returned to his body. Nothing in that story refutes that idea.
Anyway, I do appreciate your comment and I hope that what I have written here will give you some things to think on and consider. Please read the two articles I linked. I think they may also help you.
God bless,
Jake M.
August 27, 2016 at 4:55 am
Thanks very much for openning my minds as well as my eyes.Most People in Africa think that christianity was brought to Africa in order to help the whites to get colonies in Africa after softening the hearts of the Africans, I find alot of difficult to convice these people but how can i go about this situation to change their minds?
August 27, 2016 at 10:57 pm
Thank you
August 29, 2016 at 8:57 am
Makooma Ronald,
Thank you so much for your kind encouragement, bother. God bless you and the rest of our brothers and sisters in Africa!
I certainly understand the reluctance of many Africans to embracing the gospel of Jesus Christ because they see it as a religion of White men used to control them. There are many things you could say to them to encourage them to not disregard it as truth, simply because they associate it with white people.
First, you might point out that Christianity is not, historically, a native religion of Anglos (white people). It was started in the Middle East. Jesus was Jewish, not white (even though He is frequently and incorrectly depicted as such in paintings and pictures). The first people to come to know Jesus were Jews and then various Middle Eastern cultures. Among the very first followers of Jesus was a man from Africa (Ethiopia, in particular). Philip met this man of influence on the road from Jerusalem to Gaza (Acts 8:26-40). This Ethiopian was a court official of Candace, queen of the Ethiopians, which meant he had access to those in powerful influence in that nation. Philip explained the gospel to this man and he was saved and baptized. One can only assume he, in turn, shared the message of the gospel in his home country, and that God choosing of this man with access to those in high office in that country was no coincidence.
Thus, Christianity reached Africa long before it reached Anglo Europe. History tells us that there has always been a flourishing Christian church in the country of Ethiopia that can trace its beginnings all the way back to this interaction with Philip the Evangelist! It is considered the first nation in the world to accept Christianity! You can confidently tell your friends that Christianity was “black” before it was ever “white”! Thus, Africa as just as much (if not more) claim to Christianity than Europe does (and certainly North America).
God cares about all people of the world, of every race and every shade of color. As the beloved children’s Sunday school song says, “Red and yellow, black and white, all are precious in His sight”. No one race or nation can claim Christianity above others. The bible tells us that God has ordained that there will be representation in heaven from every single tribe and nation on the earth, and that we will all praise Him as one!
I would also encourage your friends that it doesn’t matter were something comes from, it only matters if it is true or not. They should evaluate the message of Christianity independent from those who bring it. It is the message that is either true or not. It should stand and fall on its own merit. A child can speak truth and a wise man can speak folly. Judge the message itself and not the source. It is a logical fallacy to dismiss something simply due to its source. It is called a Genetic Fallacy. All ideas should be weighed and evaluated independently of their source.
I would also encourage them that the message of Christianity is about freedom, not bondage. If it were a religion of the white men to help colonize and control other cultures, it would not teach freedom and equality of all peoples and races.
The message of Christianity has the opposite effect of enslaving and controlling people. It sets them free! Wherever Christianity has spread, slavery has eventually ended and the people have been able to be free. It is only the nations in the world who have not embraced the gospel that still remain oppressed, controlled and enslaved. This included those under Muslim rule as well as those under traditional religions (like China and North Korea).
I hope you find this brief answer helpful. I wish you the best and I will pray for God to work mightily through your testimony!
God bless,
Jake
August 29, 2016 at 11:16 am
Thanks my bro for that positive contribution, encouragement and wounderful advise ,may God bless u more
August 29, 2016 at 11:51 am
I thank you very much for the intellectual work that you extend towards this world. The bible says that Angels are there to serve us,now do we have the authority to order them to do what we want them to do for us?,with scriptual evidence is it true that Angels out number us? if Angels are spirits then how was Angel Gabriel caught up in space by other fellow spirits,was he too weak to fight for himself?If Agels have free will like we do,what is the probability that no other Agels will rebel against the whole God as lucifer did?, what is the difference in function between the salphins and the four living creatures of ezekiel?Am sorry for being so long here but all my querries are on one topic,thank you.
August 29, 2016 at 12:44 pm
Makooma,
You ask some questions about angels.
It is true that Hebrews 1:14 says that angels are ministering spirits sent to serve us. However, notice that they are SENT to serve us (by God). Thus, they are really servants of the Lord, who are given the task of service to us. Angels are called God’s “holy angels,” who do His bidding, not ours (Matthew 25:31; Revelation 14:10). They don’t answer to you or me. They answer only to God. There are no instances in Scripture where humans were able to give angels commands, either in their own name or in Jesus’ name. There are no passages where man has control over the work of the angels.
We do know that they are beings of higher rank, since Jesus had to make Himself “lower than the angels” in order to be born and suffer as a man (Hebrews 2:7-9; Psalm 8:4-5). Angels are currently considered higher than us in that they have greater power (Heb 2:7). But, we are also considered higher than the angels because we are made in God’s image and will one day rule them (1 Corinthians 6:3).
It is true that God has specifically given us authority over fallen angels (demons) in the name of Jesus, however. We are cautioned to not focus on this, though. We are instructed to focus, rather, on the fact that our name is written in heaven (Luke 10:20).
I do sometimes request that God send His angels to assist in some task that I feel requires supernatural intervention in (like helping to wage war against particularly dark influences and strongholds of Satan). I believe that God answers these types of requests. I have seen this occur. I have also, at times, prayed to God asking for Him to send angels for protection of certain of His children as they do some missionary task in a very dangerous location.
You asked about how many angels there are. The bible doesn’t give us that answer or say that they out number us. There are more angels than we can count and it would seem that the number has always been the same from creation. The book of Job asks, “Can his forces be numbered?” Jesus said He had access to at least twelve legions of angels. Legion is a military term for a division of several thousand men. The writer of Hebrews spoke of “thousands upon thousands” of angels in joyful assembly. We don’t have precise statistics about angels, but the writers of the Bible stretch their numerical vocabulary to the limits in telling us that we are surrounded by a vast, innumerable multitude of angelic hosts.
You asked, “if Angels are spirits then how was Angel Gabriel caught up in space by other fellow spirits, was he too weak to fight for himself?”
I am not sure what you are referring to here. Perhaps you are referring to Daniel Chapter 10 where the angel is delayed from coming to meet with Daniel and needed Michael’s help to overpower the “prince of the king of Persia”? If so, this is a very interesting text. It is clear that there is a spiritual battle going on behind the scenes, which we cannot observe. This theme is echoed in the New Testament (e.g. Ephesians 6). This angel was fighting against the spiritual forces of darkness and was not able on his own to overpower them. He needed the help of the Archangel Michael. A battle had to be fought such that the messenger from God could make his way to Daniel. Such was the control and darkness that the enemy had over the area Daniel was in. Angels are not all-powerful. Only God is. Demons are fallen angels. Thus a battle between angels and demons is pitting beings of equal power against each other. However angels outnumber demons (Rev 12:4) and further God’s will cannot be thwarted.
You then asked, “If Angels have free will like we do, what is the probability that no other Angels will rebel against the whole God as lucifer did?
Well, I am sure I can’t assess the probability well (since I’m not God). But, I would guess that it is a low probability, because now the angels have seen the consequences of that decision. They see that it didn’t work out for Lucifer and those who followed him. They see that God has not extended any opportunity for redemption to these fallen angels. They have seen that Jesus Christ has triumphed over them and they are all now subject to Him. They have seen and heard what the ultimate judgment will be for them. I think it would be low probability that any would make that mistake again. If they did do so, I am sure they would simply join the demons in their judgment.
A similar question could be asked about us once we go to heaven. Can we still choose to rebel against God? I think the answer to that questions would be similar to the one I just gave for angels…why would anyone who has seen the results of that choice choose such a thing?
You asked, what is the difference in function between the salphins and the four living creatures of Ezekiel”. I do not know. It isn’t something I spend much time thinking on. I don’t think this is very important. Angels are not our focus. Jesus is. I think we should spend less time thinking and wondering about angels and more time thinking about God and what He has done for us. Angels are just created beings, like us. There will be time for all of those questions in heaven someday (when we will have all those answers). We have more pressing things to be about now.
For more info on angels consider this article: 10 Things I Wish Everyone Knew About Angels.
God bless,
Jake
August 30, 2016 at 12:17 pm
Thank You very much mr jake
August 31, 2016 at 3:37 pm
Thank you for sharing this
September 2, 2016 at 12:16 pm
I have lots of doubts and lots of questions, but still seem to somehow be seeking! How do I lose the doubts that the bible and God are real and true and not some made up story written 2000 years ago in the Middle East?
September 2, 2016 at 1:18 pm
Kaz,
Thanks for commenting. Keep seeking, man. You are asking the right questions. It’s ok to have doubts as long as you are honest with yourself about your doubts. I have confidence that if you continue to honestly and objectively seek the truth you will ultimately conclude that the bible is true and that Jesus is who He claimed to be. I believe this because the evidence in favor of this position is so strong.
I think it is important to realize that having doubt doesn’t mean you don’t believe. We all have doubts. I am not 100% sure of anything. I certainly am not 100% sure that God exists. However, I am much more confident in this than I have been in the past. The more I learn about nature, science, relationships, and myself, the more confident in Him I become. The more my experiential, propositional and practical knowledge grows, the greater my trust gets. This is because the weight of the evidence continues to get stronger.
How can you deal with doubt? It is important to realize that some hindrances to believing are not genuinely intellectual doubts. Many are simply emotional feelings. My feelings come and go and change with the wind, but reality doesn’t change. I may feel unloved today, but this doesn’t change the fact that I am. I may feel like God doesn’t exist today, but my feelings do not always reflect reality. Many doubts are rooted in emotional woundedness. Is the issue related to a wound in your past? If so, find a close friend to open up to. Remember that God does care about what you are going through and He does want to meet your pain and give you joy in the midst of it.
Some doubts are genuinely intellectual. When you have one, write it down on paper. This forces you to get specific with what’s bothering you. Do not let it rest until you get an answer to the question! Ask someone that can answer it. If you try and they can’t . . . try again. Ask someone else. You bug people until you get it answered. Ask me if you need to. Read a good book from a respected apologist or expert who tackles the issue. Face your doubts by making them as specific as you can. Don’t try to hide from them or ignore them. Don’t try to “fake it until you make it”. Be honest with yourself when you have a valid reason for doubting, and also be honest with yourself when your reason for doubting isn’t very good (but you still feel that way anyway). Try to look at your doubt intellectually, not emotionally. Also, never underestimate the power of praying that God will reveal the truth to you.
You stated you have a doubt about whether the bible is true or simply a story made up 2000 years ago in the Middle East. I would encourage you to tackle the intellectual side of this doubt. Research what are the known historical facts surrounding the life, death and resurrection of Jesus. I’m not talking about just the things that Christians believe, but these are facts that even non-believers, skeptics and agnostics agree are historical facts concerning Jesus. Once you understand what facts can be established from objective evaluation of the available historical evidence, then you need to ask yourself which theory best fits all the established facts. I would suggest you start looking into this by reading what I wrote in this blog post: Why Believe in Christianity Over Other Religions? That is a great place to start looking at this historical evidence. Once you have digested that post, take a look at these others:
Can the New Testament Really be Trusted?
The Bible – Letter Explaining Why I Believe
Does Archaeological Evidence Support the History Recorded in the Bible?
These articles summarize the main reasons I believe in Jesus and the bible. They are my summary of the work I did as I investigated the claims made in the bible and attempted to evaluate if they aligned with the available evidence or not. I hope they will help you in your quest as you keep seeking. Also, if you email me (jbmcwhirter@gmail.ocm) with your address, I will mail you a copy of Lee Strobal’s book “The Case for Christ”. This book details how a professional investigative journalist went on a quest to find the truth behind the story of Jesus Christ, and ended up becoming convinced of the truth from the evidence he uncovered.
God bless,
Jake
September 3, 2016 at 3:21 pm
I thank you mr jake for the tramendous work that you extend to all of us regardless of our locations.How ever i have some questions i want you to give some light about. 1 if God requires us christians each to get one wife,why did he allow the kings of Isreal to get more than one wife? 2 when reading the books of samuel and kings,i find that when king David committed the sin of adultary with bathsheba and of killing urea, God Killed innocent child and then He punished David’s wives by being raped public insteady of punishing David direct .why did our just and rightous God react this way? 3 when reading the gospel ,Jesus told his disciples that he had so many things to tell but he saw that the disciples could not grasp all so he told them that the holy spirit could reveal all to them.what new things did the holy spirit reveal to the disciples besides what Jesus taught them? 4 some times i fear to condemn those who do wrong in thinking that i will be judging them yet the bible says that do not judge others.help
September 5, 2016 at 10:03 am
Makooma,
Thanks. Let’s look at each of your questions.
1. From my reading of the Old Testament I believe it is clear that polygamy was never God’s original intent or design for marriage.
The first person to take multiple wives in the bible was the Godless man Lamech (Gen 4). He was an ungodly man who did a bad thing. It didn’t go well and it wasn’t part of God’s original intent or design. God had established His design with the creation of Adam and Eve in the Garden. He made one man and one woman and brought them together to be married. He didn’t bring a whole bunch of women to Adam.
Some people in the Old Testament do practice polygamy (as you mentioned), but it doesn’t go well. Abraham had two wives and as a result there were two lineages (Through Isaac – the Jewish people and ultimately Jesus Christ, through Ismael – come the Arabs). He did this, not at the request of God, but instead as a result of doubting God’s promise to him. Conflict from this choice has lasted all throughout human history and it hasn’t gone well for anyone. A lot of the Jewish-Arab conflict today is the result of this polygamy. Esau, an ungodly man, also takes multiple wives and it doesn’t go well. Jacob does so as well, and there is a lot of ensuing conflict, pain and envy that results from this choice. Who will be favored? who will get blessing, etc? A lot of conflict ensues. This continues throughout the whole Old Testament. King Solomon’s multiple wives distract him from God and he falls into idolatry. The result is a division of his family and ultimately splitting of the whole kingdom of Israel in two. It sets up the pattern of disobedience and idolatry that causes both kingdoms to end up being overthrown and taken into captivity. If you would like to study the result of polygamy in the Old Testament in more detail, consider these places: Gen 35:22, 38:18-28, 2 Sam 3:2-5, 13:1-29, 2 Sam 15-18, 1 Kings 11:1-4. When polygamy occurs, disaster ensues.
I don’t believe that just because God ALLOWS something to occur that it necessarily implies that is His desire or design. There are many examples of things that God didn’t immediately come out against that He later revealed were sinful or not part of His designed plan. One could think about the practice of marrying your siblings or close relatives, for example. This was, of course, necessary when there were only a handful of people in the world. However, once humanity spread and expanded, and once the effects of sin were more pronounced (like genetic imperfections), the need for genetic diversity caused God to inform mankind that it was not desirable (and even unlawful) to marry a close relative. When God gave the Law to the Israelites, He took this even farther, showing that many non-blood relations were viewed as sinful in His eyes. A man was not to have sexual relations with his aunt, etc. (Lev 18). This was progressive revelation. God had not made the completely clear in the past. Indeed, we see that Moses’ parents (Amram and Jochebed) had a relationship of this nature before God gave the law (Ex 6:20). God gradually made His design and plan clearer to us throughout the whole history of the bible. Like each of us humans grows in our knowledge and understanding, so to the whole human race grows in our understanding of God and His plan.
Similarly, Jesus reveals to us that God has always intended for marriage to be between one man and one women for one lifetime (Matt 19:4-6). He clarifies the confusion. He provides us more detailed revelation on this subject (like he did on so many), when He came earth as a man and taught. A large part of Jesus’ teaching ministry involved clearing up confusion with the Law. He would frequently use phrases like “you have heard it said, but I say to you…” He was providing new revelation. He wasn’t dismissing or invalidating the Law. Rather, He was providing deeper insight and understanding into God’s intent, purpose and design for the original law.
One such example was the issue of divorce. Jesus explained that God’s allowance for divorce was not the same as saying He desired or approved of it. He had allowed it in the past due to the hardness of our hearts. However, this was NOT the original intent or design. God’s plan was one man and one women for one lifetime. In this same text, Jesus clarified God’s design on multiple issues related to marriage (not just the issue of divorce). He also taught us that it is only between men and women, and that it is only between one man and one woman. This teaching targets several issues of direct relevance today in our societies.
Additionally, the Apostles gave us further direction that aligned with Jesus’ (1 Tim 3:2, 12). Senior leaders of the church should be the husband of one wife (literally a one-woman man). So, the precedent and pattern for leadership in the church (which is to be the precedent, pattern and goal for all believers) is one man married to one woman.
2. Why does God punish others of the sins of David? There are many reasons for this. One is that David was the king of Israel. The nation of Israel had disobeyed God in asking for a human king. God’s intent was that He, alone, would be Israel’s king. But, the people believed they knew better than God and wanted a human king like all the other nations. So, God allowed them to have one. But, when they got this, they also got the downsides of it. One of the major downsides of having a human king is that they are sinful, and when the king sins, the whole nations suffers for it.
Sin always affects others around us. It is no different with your or my sin. When I sin, it affects my family. It affects my wife. It affects my work. It affects my church. This is part of the evilness and ugliness of sin. We aren’t the only ones who suffer for it. If my sin and yours impacts those around us, how much more does the sin of a pastor affect the whole church or the president of a countries sin affect the whole country? The sin of the king had a huge impact on the country. As I mentioned earlier, the sins of Solomon caused the whole nation to be ripped in two. David’s sin had disastrous ramifications for his family, and as a result the nation of Israel. And Israel had asked for this to happen when they asked for a sinful, human king to be placed over them in place of God.
The sin of the man in a family has ramifications on everyone in a very powerful way. When a father treats his daughters poorly it is likely that this will lead to poor choices in their lives (and sometimes abuse and mistreatment from other men). When he gives a poor example to his sons it is likely this will lead to his sons being bad men (who may abuse others). God does allow our actions to create trauma and negative consequences to others. In David’s case, his disobedience to God did impact his wives in this way. It is not saying that God did these actions, Himself. God is not the author of evil. He causes no one to commit adultery. He ALLOWS men the freedom to follow the inclinations of their own wickedness, and He chooses sometimes to use the wickedness of men to accomplish His good purposes – the crucifixion of Christ being the most dramatic example.
God allowed these actions to occur as the result of David’s sin. We all live in a broken world and we all are covered in sin. None of us is clean or innocent. We all sin in ways that hurt and impact others and we all are hurt and impacted by others sin. This won’t change until Jesus returns and judges the world. None of us can find fault with God for allowing the sins of others to impact us, because our own sins impact others too. No one has their nose clean here.
It is true that God did take David’s son’s life due to David’s sin. Let us not think, though, that this makes God unjust. For was it not God who created the child in the first place and who gave him to David? God doesn’t OWE life to anyone. Humans are not OWED grace and kindness from God. We have life due to the grace and mercy of God. What we all deserve is punishment in hell. The fact that any of us continue to breath air is totally due to God’s mercy towards us. God is completely within His rights at any moment to allow any of us to die (man, woman or child). He is not being unjust by doing so. If it suits His purposes and plan to allow me to live for 100 years, He will do so. However, if in His infinite wisdom He determines that it would better suite His purposes and plan for me to die today, I will. He is God. He made us out of dirt. We are His. We exist to glorify Him and to enjoy Him forever in whatever way He deems we can do that the best. This is our purpose.
Further, in the situation you bring up, the child didn’t cease to exist. Rather, he simply went to be with God, which is better by far (Phil 1:23). David shows he understands this when he says, “But now he is dead. Why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he will not return to me.” ~ 2 Sam 12:23 He understands his son is now with the Lord and someday he will go to him. Therefore, this wasn’t really a punishment dealt to his son as much as it was to David, who grieves him. It is easy for us to view death from a very human, temporal position. God doesn’t. He views it from an eternal position.
Also, do not miss that God is doing something specific here in foreshadowing the death of Jesus Christ on our behalf (God’s son). God is setting up a picture of how the cost and payment of sin will come from the sacrifice of an innocent son dying in our place. God has a reason for this message.
3. What did the Holy Spirit reveal to the disciples after Jesus left? I guess I would say that it is largely what we see communicated in the rest of the New Testament. The New Testament doesn’t stop after the gospels. There is A LOT more instruction given and revelation provided. Paul, in particular explains so much and provides a ton of deeper insight into so many issues. He speaks of the theology of redemption and salvation so clearly and precisely in the book of Romans. He clarifies the doctrine of original sin and how Jesus is the answer to it. He explains the proper place and use for spiritual gifts in 1 Corinthians. He also talks about heaven, our glorified bodies and eternity. He teaches about more about marriage and the roles of men and women. He teaches on how the church should be structured and run. He helps us understand the purpose of the law, circumcision and the freedom we have in Christ in the book of Galatians. He helps us understand the power and supremacy of Jesus Christ in the book of Colossians (so does the author of Hebrews). He gives us insight to spiritual warfare and who our true enemy is in Ephesians. Peter and John provide help for us in trials and persecution. John gives us a picture of what heaven will be like and an idea of what the coming judgement will be in the book of Revelation. There is so much that the Holy Spirit has to say to the Church through the Apostles after Jesus leaves. I could not begin to even present a summary of it. My answer is to read the rest of the New Testament!
Each of these questions is likely worthy of pages and pages of clarification and explanation. I don’t have enough time for it now and this isn’t the best place of it. Hopefully this brief response helps some. I could perhaps discuss more with you via email, if you wish.
God bless,
Jake
September 6, 2016 at 5:58 am
Thanks very much for this insight.some times we read the bible but we can’t fully understand what we read.Am inspired by the way you read and scholtinize all the meanings of these scriptures.
September 6, 2016 at 8:04 am
Mr Jake i know i might be a burden to you because of frequent questioning but i find it that your among the best people i can ask so i think you should bear with me.However if am disgusting then you should inform me.I see ladies in churches and public offices putting on men’s trousers yet in the old testament it is clear that ladies should not dress like men and likewise men should not do the other.when i talked about it to a certain pastor,he told me now we are under the new convenant now but now if your wife finds you putting on a skirt and a brouser do you think she will feel ok because we are under the new convenant then he said i do not know.I myself i do not want my wife to put on a trouser and i feel so bad if she does but not because the bible prohibits it.can you explain this basing on the biblical view
September 6, 2016 at 4:17 pm
Thank you for your essay. I could identify and appreciate it.
September 10, 2016 at 4:14 am
I have always said i am not religious but have always believed in god. I remember with clarity when I was first introduced to the concept of Christianity as a child and I was so excited! My family did not go to church but I made them take me. I drew pictures for my nan and pop of jesus and wrote all these cute little extracts that they still have to this day. I remember thinking to myself that If I could be used for god to do good in the world then I would have a good life. I had a strange and disruptive childhood but for the most part happy 🙂 Then when I was 14 I got sent to a christian school for a few months which shattered my understanding of Christianity… I had been raised not just to believe in god but also to believe in magic, mother nature etc… These were just more of gods creations… I was shunned and out cast by the Christians at that school and honestly found most of them to be very cruel people. I then rebelled completely against Christianity and have for a long time said it was immoral. I still have always believed in god in some way… Just excepted that I did not know what god was… I like your article alot as it is something I find relate-able and actually one of the few pro christian arguments I have read and not despised. You liken god to love which is what my child mind did so long ago… Believing that love embraces, makes up and conquers all other emotion… I can accept that 🙂 Give your love to god and you will recieve gods love… find ways to love all gods creation and love gods hand in the creation and your short comings will be forgiven as you will see the good in yourself and others and god will guide you through that love… Thank you!
I am not trying to troll or anything generally am enjoying reading your posts…
I believe in god but mostly consider myself agnostic. I would like to be christian as I enjoy reflecting on the concept of god and the miracle of life but I struggle quite a bit with aligning my views with that of others… I basically believe in god and that we are all one.. we are all part of something bigger then us… like threads weaving together to create the tapestry of life… some threads might be darker then others but ultimately we are all needed and give an equal contribution to the tapestry… God as a concept to me is kind of like a conductor… we are all signing in a choir… projecting our thoughts into the sphere around us and forming reality…we are divine but god is what created the voices to begin with…God to me is not necessarily an actual being but perhaps a seed of a thought with in us all… god is an essence… Im not sure I can explain right… I remember last time i thought hardly about Christianity one of the hang ups I have is in the sin part… that and that those who do not believe in god will go to hell… If god is so merciful why would he punish us for sin? Is hell just not knowing god? that I could except actually… that may have answered my question actually… If we went through the bible and replaced the word god with love I think it would make more sense 🙂 I enjoy your posts! please keep writing 🙂
September 17, 2016 at 8:02 am
Really? That’s great. Let’s now notify the IRS that all Christian churches will start paying their fair share of taxes for once, because Christianity is not a religion.
September 17, 2016 at 11:10 am
Doris,
I really don’t know why people seem to associate churches not paying taxes with being a religious organization. The two are not linked at all. Kiwanis, Elks Club, The Boys and Girls Clubs of America…none of these organizations pay taxes for the same reason as churches: they are charitable organizations. They are non-profit charities. None of these are religious. Religion has absolutely nothing to do with it. Non-profit organizations don’t pay tax because they don’t make profit, regardless of any religious affiliation. Hopefully this clears up your confusion.
September 17, 2016 at 6:00 pm
Dear Pastor McWhirter,
At this point….I’m simply Thankful. You have been such a Light in letting Him use you like this, Sir. For “me personally”, you have been unbelievable. I’m not sure I ever heard(or felt) such accuracy pertaining to God’s Word “In-My-Life”. Reading this article and the comments; these questions that have been gnawing at my mind for So long being answered so efficiently and Accurately. I’m simply humbled by this.
It’s so weird because just a couple of days ago I was completely Wrecking My Brains about this. It was my own fault. And honestly, I knew it was my own fault while I was doing it yet it seemed I couldn’t stop. It lead me into a state of intense frustration. Mentally, I went downhill from there. There’s so much more to it but, unlike you, I lose focus rather quickly. If “i” try to elaborate, you’ll be napping before you get halfway through.
So, long story short; I was struggling hard with the idea of a difference between religion and Faith(yes, at one point I foolishly thought the two were as intertwined as God and Christ; please excuse my fatal ignorance, if you will). Now, I see that you have completely and utterly debunked the issue(for “me”, definitely, because I can’t help but believe now). I thank The Lord for what you’ve done here, sir. And I’m not too ashamed to admit that I happened to be someone in desperate need to know the things you’ve said here.
I’m not sure how this might sound to you but I sure hope it sounds Sincere above all else. Because it really is. And might I add that I’ve “never” commented on any article like this. Was just too afraid. But as I read more, I just felt compelled to. I’m not exactly sure if it was the “Holy Spirit” or not. But I did. I hope you understand. Though, I believe you will. You remind of Him(what He’s done in you Really Shows beautifully). After all, He is an understanding God. More so than many of us know. I sure hope I don’t seem as nervous as I am about this. But I really do thank you Mr. Jake McWhirter. May the Lord continue to bless you and all that you do.
Sincerely,
Marquese.
September 19, 2016 at 8:04 am
Marquese,
Thank you SO MUCH for your heartfelt, vulnerable and powerful words. They are a tremendous encouragement to my soul. I am so happy that what I have written here has helped you, and I am greatly humbled that God has been able to use it for good in your life. It is an honor and pleasure to be able to pass on that which Godly men have entrusted to me. As always, all glory and honor is due only to our God who works within us to help us all learn, grow and teach. Keep learning and growing. Be faithful to pass on what He teaches you to others.
God bless,
Jake
September 19, 2016 at 2:07 pm
Kai Riley,
Thank you for your post. There is a lot there that I could discuss. Perhaps I should simply start with noting this: That is a very interesting notion of a god-like force, but how did you come to that conclusion? What evidence has convinced you that is correct? It’s not enough to adopt a worldview simply because you like the way it sounds. Many ideas sound great and may be desirable to us…but that doesn’t make them true. I like the notion that if I treat people well and act kindly towards others that good things will happen to me. However, I can emphatically state from my personal experience (at that of others) that this simply doesn’t align with reality. It sounds nice, but observable reality shatters that notion. It simply isn’t true. Bad things happen to good people, everyday, all the time.
The important question is not “which worldview and concept of god do I like the best?” The important question is “which worldview best fits observable reality the best? Which concept of god best explains what I see around me? Which notion of God is supported by concrete evidence?” Following these questions will help us arrive at the true God, instead of a god of our own invention. You don’t get to invent the god of your own desires. That’s not how reality works. You don’t do this in any other area of your life so, don’t try it when it comes to the most important one!
To be clear, I need to point out that you are presenting a competing worldview to Christianity. It is not compatible with Christianity. It claims things that, if true, negate and contradict the claims of Christianity. Likewise, if Christianity is true, it claims things that invalidate the claims you made in your comment. The two cannot exist in harmony. Either both are false or one of them is true and the other false. It is categorically impossible for them to both be true. For more on this please read my comment to Fatimustonius in Comment #122 above.
The relevant question is which one is best supported by the available evidence? I have provided much evidence for Christianity in the comments above (see comments #76, 113 and 194). I believe it stands tall under investigation and scrutiny, based on the weight of the evidence. I encourage you to investigate the evidence I have mentioned here and linked to.
This is why I challenge you with the question, what evidence can you provide to support your claims about our god being an impersonal force originating with us?
I would also encourage you to read this blog article I wrote: https://missionarybrewer.wordpress.com/2013/01/31/why-believe-in-christianity-over-other-religions/
October 9, 2016 at 8:56 am
You are only following your conjecture, through religion you will have relationship with God,for you to enter someone house it will be at his or her term,I found islamic religion more appropriate than other religion, the Quran and hadith’s give glad tidings to the Muslim, it remind them constantly that their faith and deeds are not going unnoticed
October 13, 2016 at 5:10 am
Phillipians 1v2…..
You are absolutely correct!!!!!! Awesome!!!!! Amen and Amen!!!!
November 4, 2016 at 5:10 am
👍 great article
November 6, 2016 at 4:04 pm
I love this! Thank you!
The truth in this will support me in sharing who Jesus is to others.
Two evenings ago, I took a step forward in leaving the fear of man behind into the step of fairh in sharing who God is.
Two weeks ago, without my prompting , a work colleague has started asking me questions about God. He knows I am Christian. The first qiestion he asked me was “Do people choose who goes to hell or does God?” He stated he believes in evolution.
I know the Holy spirit is guiding me to be gentle and bold now.
Praise God for miracles in my workplace and for opportunities to share the truth.
Thank you for your wisdom.
November 26, 2016 at 11:29 pm
Question according to the bible does the rapture happen before or during tribulation?
November 30, 2016 at 3:57 pm
This is the best article I have ever read or written on this subject! I commend you for sharing this message, and I trust that your literary talent is being used to bring many souls into fellowship with God. He has given you this wonderful purpose to share, you’ve been faithful to let Him work through you, and I am inspired! Thank you 😊
December 1, 2016 at 12:18 pm
Kamowas,
No, I am not only following my conjecture. I am following what Jesus Christ taught and what His own disciples taught, wrote down and passed on. I didn’t make the gospel message up. I am not at all that creative. Pick up a bible, read the book of John and you will see for yourself. You don’t need me at all.
You are correct that to enter someone’s house it must be on their terms. Jesus said essentially the same thing . . . “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door but climbs in by another way, that man is a thief and a robber.” (John 10:1) Jesus goes on to clarify for us exactly how to enter by His terms. . .
Jesus is the only door. He is the only way. If you don’t enter through Him, as you said, you will not be admitted. Peace and reconciliation with God comes only through Jesus Christ. He is the only one who could ever fulfill God’s righteous demands and live a holy life. He is the only one for who religion works, because He is the only one who can actually live up to it. Your attempts to merit God’s favor by your religion will fall short. You will fail at earning it. If you are honest with yourself, you must admit you fail every day. If your faith and deeds do not “go unnoticed”. . . then so do your failures! A just God cannot forget them or overlook them. You cannot pay for them yourself, because you just keep repeating them. Religion always fails.
I have more to say about the inadequacy of Islam. Please read what I wrote in Comment #122 on that page. It is my prayer that you will realize your inability to live up to your own religion and the truth that a holy and just God cannot look away from your sin and failure, and still be a just and holy God. You are in desperate need of the door, Jesus, to take your punishment upon Himself. You cannot imagine the freedom that comes when you cast off the weight of earning your way to God and trust completely in His work for you. I serve God now, not out of obligation, slavery or to earn something from Him. Rather I serve out of love, devotion and a desire for others (like you) to discover this freedom. This is an infinitely superior faith.
God bless,
Jake
December 1, 2016 at 4:35 pm
Kevin,
That’s a difficult and controversial question (about when the rapture happens). There are many different theories and views on that. All I personally would say for sure is that I think the bible is clear that the rapture will not happen before the tribulation. I see too many places in the bible where the people of God are warned that they will endure the hardship and persecution that is coming as part of the Great Tribulation to say that the “pre-trib” view is biblical. For example consider Matthew 24:3-31 (especially verses 22 and 29-30). Beyond that, I don’t have much opinion to contribute.
December 3, 2016 at 10:40 am
Baptism is necessary for salvation, for without it you’re not clean and whole. It’s not a religious practice, but it is a way to give up your old ways and come back to God.
December 3, 2016 at 11:43 am
Demetrick,
No, I am sorry but there is nothing in all of scripture that lists baptism as a requirement for salvation. It is absolutely a work we perform, and if doing so were to gain us salvation, we would be working to gain it. I have already presented a clear case from scripture on how baptism is not a means of salvation but rather our response to it. Please see my comments #95 and #273 above, as well as comment #48 and comment #77 on my page “How to have a Relationship with God”. These points have yet to be rebutted by anyone claiming baptism is a requirement for salvation.
December 7, 2016 at 7:33 am
it is amazing to me at the Articles you can come across. I wonder if this gentleman is a pastor that wrote this article? Let’s consider the Sheep out in the pasture with no Shepherd and no protection here comes the wolves. men and women must have boundaries the Bible tells us to follow peace with all men and Holiness without which no man shall see God we are to obey them that have the rule over us this is not speaking of government for those that rule they watch for our soul. government is not in soul winning business. what you feed your body you will become Jesus said don’t be as the Sadducees and the Pharisees or you’re not even getting into heaven. so did he not just set boundaries? This no rules thinking will get you put in the grasp of Satan. We must have boundaries everybody is a preacher and they know more than the pastor if you don’t understand a subject then speak to your pastor and ask him why he holds such strong convictions your very soul may depend on it. God desires that we have a beautiful relationship with each other in the realm of holiness and it is required that it is required that a Stewart be found faithful. Disobedience is something that God hates because it comes to Pride. our relationship with God will determine our relationship with others.
December 7, 2016 at 11:44 am
Timothy,
Yes, I am a pastor. I believe the issue is that you haven’t fully understood what I am tying to say in this blog post. I am not at all saying that good works and holiness should not be strived for (please read comment #s 22, 41, 50, 61, 99, 139, and 148 above). Rather, all I am saying is that these things, themselves, do not save you. They do not make you a Christian. You are not a Christian because of the good things you do or because you try really hard to be holy. You cannot do these things apart from the Holy Spirit working within you. You must be a Christian first before you can do them. You can’t be holy to become a Christian. The reverse is true. As a result of your salvation experience with Jesus, He gradually makes you more holy. Holiness is a journey and process and none of us have arrived. We continue to press on towards it, not to earn favor or salvation from God, but because He is changing us on the inside, giving us a new desire to love Him and serve others. We act out of the holiness he gifts to us. Hopefully you understand what I am saying better. If you disagree with this, it is not me who is preaching a false gospel, but you. A gospel of human works is no gospel at all.
Jake
December 20, 2016 at 9:41 pm
u do know that Christianity is a made up religion right? -_-
December 20, 2016 at 10:27 pm
Phan,
Sure, I’ll take the bait. No, I do not know that. After extensive historical and archeological research I have become convinced that Jesus Christ was the Son of God. He performed miricales for all to see, was publicly executed by the state and rose from the dead three days later. This is what the evidence establishes. What evidence can you offer to demonstrate it is “made up”? How do you explain away the eye witness testimony of 39 separate people, including Jesus’ enemies and the people who executed him? Even they admitted all these things I mention occurred.
Jake
January 31, 2017 at 4:25 am
I really enjoyed going through what you’ve just write sir. But like I knew in the begining, you wouldn’t be quoting scripture from James 14-26. What up tho? Those that mean you’re completing doing away with that part of the Bible by only emphasizing on Faith ?
January 31, 2017 at 8:28 am
Nandom,
Thanks for the comment. I’m not trying to avoid the passage you mention in James. I have actually already written a good bit about those verses. Please see my comments #99 and #148 above. I do not believe that passage addresses what I am talking about here in this article. James is talking about the evidence and result of our salvation, not the means of our salvation. He is talking about the changes that happen in a person’s life as a result of them becoming a Christian, not how they become a Christian, or what it means to be a Christian. Even James talks about the necessity of faith. Read the comments I mentioned here and let me know if that addresses your question.
April 2, 2017 at 2:08 pm
I don’t question God, as I know his works are on his time, and its always on time. Even if I have to stumble and fall, I find that fight in me to carry on. Again, God work is alway on time.
April 2, 2017 at 5:24 pm
Great article and beautiful answer to marion
April 4, 2017 at 1:54 pm
I live in a rural town in Pennsylvania and I still believe in Jesus but do not attend church because the people there were all fake. They would act like good Christian people every Sunday but by Monday they could be found hanging out at the local bar or they were the complete 180 of the person they were the day before.
April 5, 2017 at 9:48 am
Karl,
I don’t go to church because it is full of hypocrites. I hear this objection more frequently than I should. I am going to be blunt with you because I think that is what you really need to hear. This is a lousy excuse you are using to justify your desire to be selfish with your time.
The reality is, you don’t use this same logic with anything else you do. I am diehard a football fan. What if I said, I no longer go to football games because not everyone there is a true fan of my team? Sometimes, there are even fans who root for the other team there! I just can’t deal with that hypocrisy. Or, what if I said, I don’t ever eat out at restaurants anymore because one time I did and I didn’t like the food. No one would respond that way. They would simply try another restaurant. Do you still go to work every day, even though there are people there you don’t really like that much? Are there even hypocrites at work? How about in the grocery store? The Doctor’s office? The hair dresser? The fact is, in every part of your life and in every context, there are phony people and hypocrites. Yet, you don’t let this stop you doing anything else . . . with the exception of attending church.
The authenticity and genuineness (or lack thereof) of other people’s faith doesn’t have to affect you. It isn’t your concern. It shouldn’t be why you go to church (or do anything else). I go to church because I need to. I don’t go because the people there are great. I go because God is great and I need Him. I go because I need to be preached at. I need to be taught about Him and I need to grow in my faith. I go BECAUSE I am a hypocrite . . . Let that sink in for a moment. I go because I am not who I need to be yet. I go because I am sick and need a doctor.
Your problem is that you are going to a hospital for sick people and expecting everyone there to be well. The fact that people who are at church aren’t perfect and don’t have it all together shouldn’t be really all that surprising to you. That’s why they are there! They realize they need help. They realize that they are sinners who desperately need a savior to overcome their hypocrisy and to help them slowly grow into who God wants them to be. If they had arrived already, they wouldn’t need to be at church. You are just thinking of church all wrong.
At least those who are attending church are recognizing something that you are not. They are admitting (at least in their actions) that they know they need help and need to become more like Jesus. Yes, they are hypocrites. Yes, they do things during the week that they know they shouldn’t. But, think about this: who is more hypocritical, the person who is struggling with sin and seeking God and His people in order to grow and eventually overcome it, or the person who thinks they have no need for church, and is more righteous than those there and can’t tolerate to be around those hypocritical people? The truth is, the hypocrisy runs deep in your excuse. Consider this comparison Jesus made. . .
Ask yourself this question, whose attitude does your excuse for why you don’t go to church sound more like, the Pharisee or the tax collector? It isn’t your job to call balls and strikes on other people. Let God do that. Let God work on them. You have plenty to work on in your own heart and in your own like, I assure you. I do as well. Work on removing the plank out of your own eye, so then you can see to help your brother (Matthew 7:5).
Who knows, once God has worked on your heart and revealed to you that you are just as much of a hypocrite as they are, He might be able to use you to point out areas that those other “hypocrites” in the church need to grow in. You could become one tool God uses to help sanctify them. But, by simply pulling out of the church, you preclude that possibility. You need to remember that the Church is Jesus’ bride, whom He died for. He loves the church. So should we. The church is intended to be a family. You don’t bail on your family just because they aren’t who you wish they were.
Many Christians mistakenly think they can do it on their own and don’t see why going to church is necessary. God never envisioned or intended His followers to be islands unto themselves. Most of Jesus’ promises to believers are not to individuals but the Church. It is the Church that He calls His Bride. Jesus explains that is by our love for each other (brothers and sister in Christ…the Church) that people will know we are His followers. He promises to be there when we gather in groups of two or more, not alone. Paul writes his letters to churches. He makes it clear that spiritual gifts are given, not for our own purposes but for building up of the church. We need other brothers and sisters and they need us. This is why Paul calls the church “the body”. All the parts are vital and all are needed. A hand cannot function without the eye.
You also need to remember that we are commanded to be part of the Church. It’s time to confront the real reason why you don’t go to church.
From one hypocrite to another, I encourage you to love that which God loves, even when it isn’t perfect. Thank goodness God loves those who are hypocrites.
Jake
April 10, 2017 at 9:06 pm
Just this week, I was struggling about how I should act to make myself right in front of God. I wanted to be perfect, live life by “religious rules”. I felt like it was the only way I could get God’s approval; however, your message just changed everything. Your response to Marion, which I pray to God she found peace in His presence, was absolutely mind blowing. You are right. I will never be perfect, but Christ has been for me. He built a bridge between me and God. He has made me worthy, not my deeds. Thank you very much.
April 12, 2017 at 5:21 am
This text is just… *sigh*
In one of the passages, you mention Galatians 5:16-18 and then 22-25, which is fine. But you omitted verses 19-21, which clearly states that we shouldn’t practice sexual immorality, have lustful pleasures, self-ambition, drunkenness, attend wild parties and other sins.
So you’re just going to pick certain parts of the bible at your convenience?
Like seriously.
Don’t do that. Let Christians that want to follow what’s written on the bible alone. We are still Christians.
April 14, 2017 at 11:55 am
Moonbeam,
I believe you have not understood the key point I am making in this blog post. I apologize if I have not been clear enough. I am not at all intending to leave anything out or to at all imply that following Jesus means a person can just do any activity they want. Clearly, the bible teaches many things we are to do and many that we should avoid. Before you jump to the conclusion that I pick and choose certain parts of the bible, I encourage you to read what I wrote in comments #22, 41, 50, 61, 99, 139, and 148 above. I think I have been very clear here that I understand that we are called to do many things and not do many things as Christians. However, doing and not doing these things isn’t what makes a person a Christian. They are the byproduct of the Christian faith. They are the natural result, not the cause. This article is about how one becomes a Christian and how that is drastically different from the religions in the world. That is why I selected the verses I did.
April 22, 2017 at 2:16 am
Jake, I’ve read much of this blog up to like 130 or so, I’m a graduate of a 3 year Bible college that was called Multnomah School of the Bible when I went there years ago. Also, I am attempting to write a book comparing the 15 or so biggest religions of the world with Christianity and Jesus Christ. It falls right in with my personal testimony and some biblical truth about the existence of God etc. First of all as you and I both must know, everything I’ve read in your blog here is clearly guided by the Holy Spirit and right on! I’m amazed at how many of those reading and responding here don’t seem to see the incredible mass of truth you have shared and think many times how they’ll “set you straight.” Thank you very much for your great example of patience, love, humility and just the fruit of the Holy Spirit. This blog has turned into such a beautiful, true ministry. I imagine that you know just how blessed you are to write it. God has given you so many gifts to share! I will be praying for you because we both know Satan and his helpers are against all this truth and love.
I don’t know what will come of my book. Most of my research of world religions is from “The World Book Encyclopedia,” “Encyclopedia Britannica” and an encyclopedia of world religions. I wanted to be as objective and unbiased as I could. I have a really catchy grabber title and theme. It’s a book however that is “over my head” as far as the hugeness of it. If it does go big, I plan to give most of the proceeds to Christian charities. I don’t “Feel” my family, and I have all it takes to make it happen greatly. I know my God who made, rules and runs the universe however does! I would appreciate your prayers and if you feel lead, a suggestion of a great Christian publisher. Thank you, Jake, you have already been a great blessing to me. God bless you greatly! Your brother in Christ, Mark
May 15, 2017 at 2:02 am
Liar…. Don’t even know what he’s saying contradicting himself in so many ways.. I need a more wise and understanding person to explain to me further and back it up with Bible verses.
May 15, 2017 at 11:55 am
Salmas Wales,
I am sorry that I haven’t been successful in explaining my position in a way that you are able to understand. Perhaps you are correct and I lack wisdom and understanding. However, if this is the case, I hardly warrant accusation and attack from you.
You call me a liar. That means I am intentionally misrepresenting the truth. I can assure you have no desire to speak falsehood. Even if you are correct and what I wrote is wrong, why would you assume I have done so intentionally? That seems like an unnecessary and unsubstantiated leap in judgement.
You also make this accusation without providing one shred of supporting evidence or example. You claim I am contradicting myself and call for me to back up what I said with bible verses, but you don’t even bother to do so yourself. If you are going to levy an accusation at a person, it is on you to demonstrate your position, point out where they are wrong and support your position with evidence or scripture.
If I am contradicting myself, where? I have (to the best of my knowledge) provided substantial scriptural support of all of the positions I have taken on this page. If you really believe I have said something that I haven’t supported with scripture here, please tell me what so I can correct that. If you really mean your criticism to be Godly and constructive, that is the least you can do. Attacking fellow brothers in the Lord and accusing them evil motives (while making no effort to correct their error), is hardly a Christ-like behavior.
Perhaps if you help me understand exactly what points you take issue with, I might be able to “explain further and back it up with bible verses”. You haven’t even provided me the opportunity to do so.
God bless,
Jake
June 5, 2017 at 2:00 am
Hi
What is your worldview?
Regards
Allan
June 5, 2017 at 12:15 pm
Allan,
Can you be more specific? That is a very broad question. Worldviews encompass literally everything we believe. In a broad sense, I have a biblical worldview. That is, my worldview is formed by what is in the bible. All worldviews must answer the following 4 questions:
1. Origin-Where do we come from?
2. Meaning-Why are we here?
3. Morality-What’s right and wrong?
4. Destiny-Where are we going?
The bible addresses the answers to all 4 of these questions. Here is a very brief explanation of each . . .
Question 1: The bible explains that God created the universe out of nothing, a finite time period ago, and that He created mankind in His image.
Question 2: The bible tells us that God created us for the purpose of displaying His glory and for us to enjoy Him forever.
Question 3: The bible gives us a definition for what is right and wrong: Whatever aligns with the character and nature of God is good. All that violates or contradicts the nature of God is evil. The bible also provides much application for how this morality is to impact our lives. It shows us how we are ti live.
Question 4: The bible explains that human beings were created with the purpose of being in eternal relationship with God, but that we rebelled against Him and chose to reject our purpose. God, out of His love for us, decided to provide us a way to regain the relationship we lost. He entered into our world (as Jesus Christ), paid the price for our sin, and provided a way for us to be forgiven. Thus, the bible tells us that those who accept this sacrifice in their place will be perfected and live eternally with Him, but that those who continue to reject Him will suffer eternally in hell.
Regardless of what your worldview is, it must be able to answer all of these 4 questions. It must also be able to answer them in a way that is:
1. Logically consistent
2. Supported by solid evidence
3. Provides useful principles for life
It is only the Christian worldview that succeeds in doing this. Every other worldview fails at least one of these tests (often multiple). it is only Christianity that answers all 4 questions in a manner that is logically consistent, stands up to all the available evidence, and provides principles that one can actually live life by.
Does that answer your question? Maybe if you are clearer with your question I could provide a more thorough answer.
God bless,
Jake
June 5, 2017 at 1:24 pm
Hi
Thank’s for the reply.To be more specific,What is your worldview on saving faith ie Calvinism or Arminisim.Are they both correct in what they teach ?
regards
Allan
July 9, 2017 at 6:44 am
AMEN!!!
July 12, 2017 at 2:21 pm
Thanks so much for sure an understanding ideal ….
September 4, 2017 at 12:34 pm
Hello,
In comment 305 you stated there was no mention of the Catholic Church before the council of Nicaea and mentioned some of the early church fathers, including Ignatius of Antioch. Well here is a statement from one of his letters from around 110 AD,
“Wherever the bishop appears, let the people be there, just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church.”[Epistle to the Smyrneans 8:2.]
Here is an article that expands on the word Catholic: https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/catholic
Let us search for truth and reason appropriately as we we have the ability because we were made in the image and likeness of God. I pray we all come closer and closer to our Lord every day of our lives.
God Bless,
Roger
September 4, 2017 at 2:01 pm
Roger,
Thank you for the comment. I have every intention to search for truth and reason appropriately. I do stand by my remarks regarding the Roman Catholic Church (RCC) not existing prior to the Council of Nicaea. However, I never claimed the word “catholic church” wasn’t ever used before that point. That isn’t the same thing at all. The word “catholic” simply means universal. Certainly, the word was used in that context to describe the universal, all-encompassing Church. You could use it in the same way today to describe the universal Church, that is all those who are truly believers and followers of Jesus Christ (regardless of denomination or specific church). To illustrate this point,I could say “Jesus Christ died to save all those who belong to the universal Church”. One could substitute the word catholic for universal there, but I am not at all trying to say that Jesus died only for those who belong to the Roman Catholic Church. In fact, I literally mean almost the opposite.
The fact the the RCC uses the word “catholic” (or universal) in their name doesn’t mean they get exclusive rights to that word. The truth is they are NOT the universal Church. Anyone who places faith in Jesus Christ will be saved, according to the bible, regardless of what church they belong to. All believers are members of the universal Church. In the same way, just because the Mormon church calls themselves, “The Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints”, doesn’t make them Jesus Christ’s church. They don’t get to claim their church has existed since Jesus was on earth, simply because they decided to call themselves that. The same applies to the RCC.
The fact is, the universal Church that existed for the first few hundred years after Jesus’ resurrection has little resemblance to today’s RCC. The specific brand of faith today that calls itself the Catholic Church, is VERY different from the ancient Church, in what they believe, their practices and how they are structured. It is not the same church at all. When the church became the official Church of Rome, many changes were introduced that deviated substantially from the original faith as described in the bible. Many practices and beliefs that characterize and distinguish the modern RCC were completely absent from early Christian worship. For example:
The offices of Papacy and Priesthood
Confession to a priest
Prayer to and worship of Mary
The existence of Purgatory
Salvation by works
Use of icons
Recognizing and revering of specific “Saints”
These ideas and concepts are nowhere found in the Christian bible, but were introduced from external sources much later as the church morphed over many centuries. It is hard to conceive of the Catholic Church apart from these beliefs and practices. These are the very things that distinguish the Catholic church from other Christian denominations! Without these distinctives, they are not the RCC. This is what I meant. The RCC did not exist when the Council of Nicaea met. Yes, there was a universal (catholic) Church, but it is not the same church that uses that title today. That church has deviated far from the the original faith.
In fact, today’s Catholic church cannot be said to have existed prior to the forming of its top-down organizational structure, which is drastically different than the Church organization described in the bible. The idea of a single Pope who speaks for God, Bishops who oversee many churches and priests who intercede to God on behalf on the people, is completely absent from both the bible and early church practice. Modern Catholics claim the early church had a single Pope over it. However, Such a claim is disputed even by Canon 6 of the Council of Nicaea, which equates Alexandria as equal with Rome, and gives ultimate authority to the provinces . . .
Similarly, when Clement of Rome wrote, he did not write as a single, infallible, authoritative source. In fact, he even opened up his first letter with, “The Church of God which sojourns at Rome…” This is not how one would expect someone to open up if they were the single head of the Church on Earth.
This Roman version of the church has no more legitimate claim to be the universal Church than any other manifestation of the Christian church.
September 19, 2017 at 11:38 pm
nice, i truly believe this.
October 12, 2017 at 7:38 am
Thank you! I am nearly in tears reading this. I have been searching for a means to describe the difference, over the past three days I have encountered two situations where I couldn’t express what is laid out here. One time to a young lady helping me at a store , the other to coworkers . My heart broke because I felt God would want me to minister or this wouldn’t occur. But I couldn’t I froze. Thank you
October 28, 2017 at 8:29 pm
this Cristianity too is man. All other religions claim to be The only True Religion based on their set of self interpretation of what bible stories mean.
The story of Jesus in the bible is copied as there many ‘godlike’ myths before him. Over the years the bible has been editrd to include the comin of a Jesus in the old testament..and a Jesus in the new testament, who writters sre contridictarions. Their books were written on their behalf many years after s Jesus encounter. Hence they start as e.g : The Gospel According to Matthew…..indicating he,Matthew didnt right it himself. The bible and so many ‘holy’ books are versions of eachother*
October 30, 2017 at 4:22 pm
Bob (TheChecker),
Since you didn’t provide a name, I’ll call you Bob. Thank you for your comment. I would love to discuss your claims in detail, if you are really interested in the facts.
You made many claims here and provided no evidence or substantiation to back any of them up. It is not enough to just claim something is true without providing any evidence that it is so. In fact, the claims you made are universally rejected by historians and scholars (who actually study these things), both those who are Christians and those who are not. There is simply no evidence to establish what you claimed here in your comment.
Here are your claims broken down individually . . .
“The story of Jesus in the bible is copied as there many ‘godlike’ myths before him.”
What evidence of this claim can you provide? This is a popular “internet atheist” claim that is rarely backed by any actual substance. You aren’t the first one to raise it on my blog. It’s been addressed and defeated before (please read comment 76 above for a through rebuttal to it). No one has yet been able to provide any examples of actual myths that directly parallel the life of Jesus. In fact, the vast majority of ancient scholars do not believe pagan myths had any influence on the bible or Jesus Christ. This is even true for scholars who do not believe in the bible and are not Christians. This is an old, outdated argument that has been resoundingly defeated by scholars.
Don’t commit the False Cause Fallacy. Just because there are similarities between two things doesn’t mean one caused the other. It’s similar to saying “I knew it would rain, I just washed my car”. Washing the car may have come first, but it doesn’t necessitate the washing was a causal factor in the rain coming. The fact that a previous religion has vague similarities to the bible does NOT imply that they are the cause of bible. You must argue for a causal relation. You can’t just assert parallels and think that implies a causal relation. It does not.
On to your next claim . . .
“Over the years the bible has been edited to include the coming of a Jesus in the Old Testament”
How do you know that? Can you produce a copy of the Old Testament without these claimed additions? If you have no evidence that it has been modified, why would you assume it has? It’s a fair question.
The fact is, we know for a fact that the Old Testament was NOT modified. We can know that because of the Dead Sea Scrolls. These are ancient scrolls full of Old Testament quotations and whole books stored in earthen jars buried in caves bordering the Dead Sea. These jars contained over 900 documents, almost the entirety of the Old Testament, including all the relevant prophecies to the Messiah. The scrolls have been dated to 150 years before Jesus was born! These scrolls completely validate the reality and accuracy of the Old Testament and prove, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the prophecies that point towards Jesus as the Messiah were written down generations before He came. If you want to know more about the DSS, you can read more on Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Sea_scrolls)
On to your next claim . . .
“. . . and a Jesus in the New Testament”
Here you claim that the New Testament was modified to include information about Jesus. Again, I ask how can you know that? Are you psychic? If all the documents have been modified, what evidence do you have to show they are modified? Your argument commits suicide.
Further, this ignores the massive scholarly textual criticism that has gone into validating the New Testament manuscripts. It appears you are simply unaware of this information. Please look into this, you will be shocked by what you learn.
Virtually all our knowledge of ancient history is composed of documents with less valid textual criticism than the bible. We currently have greater than 24,000 manuscript copies of portions of New Testament (and we are finding new ones all the time). That is more than any other ancient document! For comparison consider the number of portions of these historic documents we have in their original language. . .
Homer’s Iliad: 643
Caesar’s Gallic wars: 10
Plato’s Tetralogies: 7
Pliny the Younger’s History: 7
Sophocles: 193
Here are a couple web sites that talk about these facts in greater detail. I encourage you to spend some time learning the facts with regard to your claim:
https://carm.org/manuscript-evidence
https://www.str.org/articles/is-the-new-testament-text-reliable#.WfeuuGevjII
Due to vast early source material, textual critics are able to determine that the New Testament text is within 99% accuracy of original documents. No doctrine (core belief) of Christianity is dependent on any textual variant.
Your next claim . . .
“Their books were written on their behalf many years after Jesus encounter”
They were written within the lifetimes of the eyewitnesses. That is better testimony then we have for virtually any ancient event! We know that that four gospels (which contain the events of Jesus’ life, death and resurrection) were written by separate authors within decades of his death. We can know this from two virtually uncontested facts. . .
First, the Gospel of Luke and the book of Acts were written by the same author (the text makes this plain). Luke/Acts form one literary unit. Second, the Apostle Paul was executed sometime during the Neronian persecution of the mid-60s (as established by several historical texts). This is not in dispute. It’s a universally accepted historical fact.
Acts ends abruptly with Paul in jail during his first Roman imprisonment, around 62 AD. Why does it end this way? Because this is when the account was written. Second, Luke’s Gospel was written before Acts, placing it in the early ‘60s to late 50s. Third, even the most liberal critics place Mark and Matthew as written before Luke, with Mark generally considered the earliest.
This places the first gospels in the mid to late-50s and possibly much earlier, putting them, on the outside, only 25 years from the crucifixion—powerful evidence for their reliability. There was no chance for slow development of legend and fanciful stories, especially with so many firsthand witnesses still alive, including most of the apostles.
Eminent New Testament scholar John A. T. Robinson gives another reason to be confident the Gospels were written early:
“One of the oddest facts about the New Testament is that what on any showing would appear to be the single most datable and climactic event of the period—the fall of Jerusalem in A.D. 70, and with it the collapse of institutional Judaism based on the temple—is never once mentioned as past fact.”
Since Luke recorded Jesus’ prophesy of the temple’s destruction (Luke 21:6), it is unthinkable he would not have pointed to its fulfillment had Jerusalem already fallen. Is it reasonable to believe not one Gospel writer would mention this to vindicate his message if the Gospels were late and this event had already taken place? In fact, Robinson argues that every book of the New Testament was completed before 70. That’s within 37 years of Jesus’ death! That’s younger than me.
Show me one example from history with that level of testimony, that close to the events that occurred (nine independent eyewitness accounts, written within 40 years of the event). It’s unheard of. Much less time passed between events in New Testament and their writings than any other ancient document. For comparison, consider the time that passed between when the events occurred and when they were recorded for the following ancient documents (that are accepted by historians as reliable):
o Homer’s Iliad: 500 years
o Caesar’s Gallic wars: 1000 years
o Plato’s Tetralogies: 1200 years
o Pliny the Younger’s History: 750 years
This is just an example of the logical fallacy called “Special Pleading”. You are requiring something of the bible that you do not require of other eyewitness accounts of history. It’s a double standard. In absence of sound evidence to establish the claims you present, there is no reason not to accept the numerous eyewitness statements testifying to the events they observed, and to accept the mountains of scholarly textual criticism that establishes that the New Testament accurately records these accounts.
Here is your next claim . . .
“. . . they [the gospels] start as e.g : The Gospel According to Matthew…..indicating he, Matthew didn’t right it himself.”
This doesn’t follow at all. The titles of the Gospels are not even in the ancient manuscripts, at all. They were added to help later readers. The originals were just letters that the apostles distributed. They didn’t need to say whose account they were from, because they knew who was giving it to them. If all of the original Apostles and first church attributed Matthew to being written by Matthew, why would we question it now? That makes no sense.
Those who knew Matthew circulated this writing attesting to its authenticity. The earliest traditions of the church are unanimous in attributing the first Gospel to Matthew. They were much closer to the source and have a much better idea about the authorship than we can 2000+ years removed from it. All of the disciples and their immediate followers used it. Paul quotes from it in his letters. If it wasn’t Matthew who wrote it, who else did and how can you be sure? There is simply no reason to conclude anyone other than Matthew was the author.
The earliest and most important of these traditions for the authorship of the Matthew comes from the second century in the writings of Papias, bishop of Hierapolis in Asia Minor (c. a.d. 135), and Irenaeus, bishop of Lyons in Gaul (c. 175). Because these early church leaders had either direct or indirect contact with the apostolic community, they would have been very familiar with the Gospels’ origins. Moreover, no competing traditions now exist (if they ever did) attributing Matthew’s Gospel to any other author. If Matthew did not write the book, it is hard to see why the false ascription would bear the name of a relatively obscure apostle when more well-known and popular figures could have been chosen (e.g., Philip, Thomas, or James).
Last claim . . .
“The bible and so many ‘holy’ books are versions of each other”
What holy book is another version of the bible? Name one. This claim is completely false. Other religious “holy books” present counter and competing accounts and testimony to the bible. They are irreconcilable. For example, the bible is emphatically contradictory to the Quran. Consider just a few of countless examples in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8QwM5tjL9c
If you would like to provide any evidence to support any of your claims, I am all ears.
Bob, I wish you the best and I hope that you will continue to dialog on these points.
God bless,
Jake
November 9, 2017 at 11:49 pm
This is really a message that liberates, thank u so much servant of God. God bless
December 21, 2017 at 12:22 pm
Christianity is based on Jesus being the Messiah. The Old Testament teaches of one Messiah coming and his return. It says in Is. 9:1-7 that when he comes there will be world peace. We never had world peace under the false Messiah of Jesus Christ. The Christian (even though the Bible does not teach it) claim there are two returns and still wait for Jesus to bring world peace. We have too many religion that men take the Bible and make it fit their belief to make their belief(s) and or religion true. This is a problem look at all the different Christianisms out there. There are churches of so many beliefs and religions within Christianism that claim they are the true ones for who God is and how to be saved.
A good example would be in Mt 28:19 was added into scripture by a fourth century bishop because he believed in the pagan trinity doctrine of his day.
Look where Christinism is today. Most of their religions believe in the Trinity and baptize in this pagan formula believing it is truth.
Another truth is look at the New Testament it teaches a pagan concept of hell fire that Jesus and his disciples believed in during their day. This teaching was brought in when the Jews were Hellenized from earlier. Hell fire was not believed or taught in the Old Testament by the Jews then. Again we have man changing what truth is from pagan influences and making it true because they believe it.
The results are people believing these concepts are God breathed truths from the throne when Christian Scholars (some of them) and others who study the history are bold enough to speak up and not be afraid of condemnation by others who believe in these things who have not studied to see if these things are truth.
December 21, 2017 at 10:16 pm
Youchanan Schnabl,
Thank you for your comment. I would be happy to dialog with you about your points of objection to the Christian faith and Jesus as the Messiah. The evidence to substantiate Jesus as the Messiah is so overwhelming that the case is very easy to make. The objections you present to not stand under closer examination of the facts. Once this is considered, alongside the massive amount of messianic prophecy that Jesus alone fulfilled, the case becomes undeniable. Let’s break your objections down individually and look closely at the facts.
First you said, “The Old Testament teaches of one Messiah coming and his return. It says in Is. 9:1-7 that when he comes there will be world peace. We never had world peace under the false Messiah of Jesus Christ.”
I agree that the Old Testament teaches of one Messiah. But, this is a problem for Jews, not Christians. The problem of apparent inconsistency in the role of the Messiah is not a problem for Christianity. It’s a problem for Judaism (and any other faith that would affirm the Old Testament but deny that Jesus is the Messiah). This is because the prophecies for the Messiah can be broken up into two distinct groups:
1. A man rejected and humble, suffering quietly (Isaiah 52:13-53:12 being the most prominent)
2. A victorious king, justly ruling over a world, bringing peace (i.e. Isaiah 9:1-7 and 11:1-9)
Jews have a problem reconciling these two completely different descriptions of the Messiah. Are there two Messiahs? They simply can’t explain the suffering servant. It is only Christianity that provides a reconciliation in the person of Jesus, who fulfills both descriptions by His two advents. He comes first as the suffering servant, the sacrificial lamb, which Isaiah spoke of so clearly in chapters 52 and 53 (and also David profoundly in Psalm 22).
Who else but Jesus fulfilled that passage? Who else could? This is a problem with the Jewish version of the Messiah.
Yes, the bible also speaks of a conquering king who comes in victory, bringing peace. It is certainly true that Jesus Christ will return again, in His second advent, to bring external peace to the world. However, there is no passage that states this ceasing of all worldly conflict will occur all at once with the ministry of the Messiah. Your passage from Isaiah 9 definitely doesn’t state that. It calls Jesus the “Prince of Peace” (among other things) and says that his kingdom will bring peace. But it doesn’t at all say this peace is the end of all wars, or that it occurs immediately and completely. In fact, it actually says that the increase of his government will cause peace to begin to increase on earth. . .
If the increase of the peace of his government won’t have an end, which obviously means it doesn’t happen all at once! The word “increase” means it must start smaller and get bigger. You fail to present a single passage that demonstrates the Messiah will bring about immediate peace on earth.
Indeed, this gradual increase of peace has occurred throughout history since the coming of Jesus. It continues. The Christian Church (when it has acted in compliance with the bible) has been a great influence for peace on earth. Even skeptics concede this point. Several non-Christians have stated that Christianity is responsible for the rise of Western civilization and the dawning of world altering concepts like personal freedom, equality, the advancement of charity, universal education, religious liberty, free speech, the advancement of science and objective moral standards as law (e.g. J.L. Heilbron, A.C. Crombie, David Lindberg, Edward Grant, Jewish historian of science Thomas Goldstein, and Ted Davis, among others).
Additionally, you interpret “peace” in Isaiah 9 to merely be “world peace”, i.e. the ceasing of physical conflict between people on earth. However, that is not the main usage of this word in the Old Testament. It is much more often used in reference to the ceasing of hostility between God and mankind.
In fact, the biblical concept of peace rests heavily on the Hebrew root slm, which means “to be complete” or “to be sound.” The verb conveys both a dynamic and a static meaning “to be complete or whole” or “to live well.” The noun had many nuances, but can be grouped into four categories: (1) salom as wholeness of life or body (i.e., health); (2) salom as right relationship or harmony between two parties or people, often established by a covenant (see “covenant of peace” in Num 25:12-13 ; Isa 54:10; Ezek 34:25-26) and, when related to Yahweh, the covenant was renewed or maintained with a “peace offering”; (3) salom as prosperity, success, or fulfillment (see Lev 26:3-9 ).
Jesus did bring peace. Just not the kind of peace you are expecting. He brought peace in all four of the meanings above. But, He primarily brought peace between mankind and God. He is certainly the “Prince of Peace” in this way. He is the King who establishes peace between us and God. When Jesus was born in Bethlehem the angles proclaimed,
With the coming of Jesus, God declared peace: an end of hostility, and a reconciliation of relations between Himself and those upon who his favor rests (those who respond to the Messiah).
Back to Isaiah 9, we can see that the Messiah’s role was to bring peace by freeing us from oppression and a heavy burden. . .
What is the main the burden and oppression shown in the OT? Was it Pharaoh, Nebuchadnezzar, Caesar, Herod or some other tyrannical king? These kings oppressed only physically and temporarily. The supreme oppressor here is not a tyrannical government but our ultimate enemy, the ultimate foe, the ultimate oppressor . . . Satan (Gen 3:14-15; the protoevangelium, 1 Cor 21:1, Ps 109:6, Job 1-2 and Zech 3:1-2). It is sin’s strangle hold on man the leads to death (Gen 2:17, Ez 18:4). Everyone is tainted and corrupted by sin (Ps 14:2-3, Is 64:6). It was Israel’s collective sin that resulted in their physical oppression (Deut 30:15-16, Jer 5:25-29, Is 59:2, Amos 3:14). It is ultimately sin that causes all conflict in this world. Jesus came to release us from this burden of sin that oppressed us and separated us from God. He freed us from captivity to it. This is what Isaiah is speaking of in 9:4.
I find it interesting that you think Isiah 9:1-7 is a problem text for Christians, when it reality it aligns completely with our concept of the Trinity, and of Jesus as the Messiah. What’s ironic to me is that this passage actually presents an insurmountable problem for those (like you) who claim that Jesus is not God and not one in essence with the Father. How can you explain the description of the Messiah in this passage: “his name shall be called . . . Mighty God, Everlasting Father . . .”?
How can a Messiah be called Mighty God and the Everlasting Father if he is not, Himself, God and one with the Father? You have already conceded that this passage is referring to the Messiah. Your whole argument hinges on that claim. But, this passage clearly states this Messiah is “Mighty God” and “Everlasting Father”. If the Trinity is really a “pagan concept”, how do you reconcile the fact that the Messiah is one with the Father, so much so that He can even be referred to as the Father? How is the Messiah Mighty God? You have no answer to this, but Christianity does. No, the Trinity is not a pagan concept. It is a truth thread throughout all of Scripture.
Isaiah 9:1-7 is a “Catch-22” for you. Either this passage isn’t speaking of the Messiah (in which case your argument crumbles), or it is saying that this Messiah is one and the same with the Almighty God and Father (in which event your denial of the Trinity disintegrates).
Next you claimed, “There are churches of so many beliefs and religions within Christianism that claim they are the true ones for who God is and how to be saved.”
Your claim here is simply false. There are Christian churches (all of which believe the same about who God is and how to be saved) and there are cults (who reject these Orthodox doctrines). There is no confusion on the points you mention. There is no disagreement among Christians about who God is or how to be saved. All Christian denominations and expressions believe the same on these issues.
There certainly are points of disagreement, but not on these primary doctrines. There are established, orthodox Christin creeds that define the basic beliefs one must affirm in order to be considered a Christian (e.g. the Apostles Creed, the Creed of Nicaea and the Nicene Creed). If you deny any of these creeds, you are not a Christian. You are something else.
There are two things that must be true In order for any church to be considered Christian:
1. Share the core doctrines of Christianity that distinguish it from other religions
2. Have no core doctrines at odds with core doctrines of Christianity
All Christian Churches satisfy both of these. The moment they stop doing so, they are no longer Christian. Yes, there are false churches and cults who use the label “Christian” or “Jesus Christ” in their name, but if they deny the long established Christian creeds, they are not Christian (because they do not affirm what the bible teaches on these main, primary issues). Anyone can claim to be a Christian, just as anyone can claim to in the US military or to be a postman. But, that doesn’t make them one. Christianity is inclusive. Anyone can become a Christian. But, it is also exclusive. Only those who affirm an established set of basic beliefs can be called Christian.
Additionally, these same can be said of Judaism, Islam or any other religion. There are countless sects and divisions in all of these. This is not unique to Christianity.
Then you said, “Mt 28:19 was added into scripture by a fourth century bishop because he believed in the pagan trinity doctrine of his day.”
This is a claim that requires evidence to demonstrate its truth. You have the burden of proof here in claiming that the New Testament has been corrupted in this way. What evidence can you provide of this supposed addition?
In absence of your evidence, I will use the argument that has been made by others in the past to try to assert this claim about this verse. Those who have attempted to claim this, point to a quotation from the early church historian Eusebius. In Demonstratio 3.6, he replaces “name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit” with “my name.” This is then taken as a direct quote from the copy of Matthew he was using and a conclusion is jumped to that the long version of Matthew 28:19 was added later (quite a leap).
However, this claim has been refuted and is generally rejected by the majority of scholars today. The originality of the short version of the verse fails in regards to both physical and manuscript evidence.
No manuscript of Matthew is known that has the short form of the verse. Not one. Even though the critical texts used by scholars lay out all kinds of textual variants throughout the NT, NA-27 does not list any variants on Matthew 28:19. Even though it lists out variants on verses 18 and 20, there are none for v19. When looking beyond Greek, all ancient translations have the long reading of Matthew (e.g. Latin, Syriac, etc).
Bart Ehrman, a noted textual critic who is neither a Christian nor a Trinitarian (in fact, he describes himself as an agnostic) agrees that the long form of the verse is original. And, he is one of the most liberal NT scholars. Another New Testament scholar who is also an authority on Eusebius states:
Most convincingly, Eusebius also quotes the long form of the verse, elsewhere (Contra Marcellum I.1.9; I.1.36; Theologia III. 5.22; Caesarea 3 Socrates, Eccl. Hist 1.8; Psalms 117.1-4; and Theophania 4.8)
Text critics don’t just look at manuscripts of the text. They also examine quotations of passages in early writers. All quotations of Matthew 28:19 that include the “name” formula have the long version and not the short. For example . . .
• Didache 7:1 (AD 50-70) “Concerning baptism, you should baptize this way: After first explaining all things, baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, in flowing water”
• Tertullain (220 AD) On Baptism paragraph 13, “Go, he says, teach the nations, baptizing them in the Name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost.”
• Tertullian Against Praxeas, chapter 2 says, “After His resurrection…He commands them to baptize into the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost“.
• Also, Gregory Thaumaturgus (205-265 AD), Hippolytus (170-236 AD) and Cyprian (200-258 AD)
In total, searching only those Fathers prior to the fourth century, there are at least 24 quotations of Matthew 28:19 using the full formula. There were no quotations amongst these writers with the short version!
There is simply no logical or credible reason to assume this verse was added, especially in the absence of any manuscript without it. The only motivation for doing so is commitment to the position that it can’t be what the Apostle wrote because of a preconceived theological position. It’s a desperate effort to discredit an inconvenient verse.
Here is your problem, as I see it: even if you are successful in expunging the reference to the Father Son and Spirit from Matthew 18:19 (which I have shown can’t be done), you are left with the reality that all four of the gospels are littered with some many other clear references to the Trinity, and to Jesus being God. Here are just a few of the numerous examples:
• The baptism of Jesus, where all three persons of the Trinity are seen acting together (Matt 3:13-17, Mark 1:9-11, Luke 3:21-22, John 1:28-34)
• The Transfiguration where Jesus’ true appearance is revealed and the Father calls Him His Son (Matthew 17:1–8, Mark 9:2–8, Luke 9:28–36)
• Jesus receives the worship of Thomas, who calls Him “my Lord and my God” (John 20:28)
• The fact that the apostle John calls Jesus God (John 1:1,3, 14)
• Jesus receives worship from a blind man who he just healed (John 9:35-38)
• When asked if he is the Messiah, son of God Jesus responds, “I Am” and that He is seated with the Father in heaven (Mark 14:61-62)
• Jesus claims to be the “I Am”, Yahweh, from the burning bush (John 8:58 and many other places)
• The Trinity can be seen in Luke’s account of Jesus’s birth in which the angel tells Mary that she has found favor with God (the Father) and that the Holy Spirit will overshadow her and she will conceive a child who will be called the Son of God (Luke 1:30-35)
• That the magi came to worship Jesus as a child (Matt 2:2,11)
• John states that Jesus claimed to be equal with God (John 5:18, see also 10:30-33)
• Jesus received worship as God’s son from his disciples after he calms the storm (Matt 14:33)
• Jesus was worship again by his disciples following his resurrection (Math 28:9)
Additionally, the Apostles all taught the notion of the Trinity in their subsequent writings. Here are just two places (of literally dozens):
• 2 Corinthians 13:14 – “The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Spirit be with all of you”
• 1 Peter 1:2-3a – “…who have been chosen and destined by God the Father and sanctified by the Spirit to be obedient to Jesus Christ and to be sprinkled with his blood: May grace and peace be yours in abundance. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ!”
If Jesus really rose from the dead, this validates His claim to be God. So, not only do you have the places in Scripture where God is discussed in a Trinitarian manner, but you also have the fact that all the eyewitness testify that Jesus rose from the dead! Nine separate testimonies are collected in the bible. An additional 29 witnesses testify outside of biblical writings. That’s 38 written testimonies, all of which confirm that Jesus was seen alive after his death. These witnesses had nothing to gain from lying. They were persecuted and killed claiming it was true. No one is willing to die for what they know is a lie.
Lastly, you made the claim, “Hell fire was not believed or taught in the Old Testament by the Jews then”
It is certainly true that Jesus spoke a lot about hell, more so than anyone else in Scripture. However, it is patently false that this was a “pagan concept” not in the Old Testament. The Old Testament actually speaks a good bit about hell fire. Consider these examples:
• Deuteronomy 32:22 – “For a fire is kindled in my anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains.”
• Psalm 140:10 – “Let burning coals fall upon them! Let them be cast into fire, into miry pits, no more to rise!”
• Isaiah 1:31 – “And the strong shall become tinder, and his work a spark, and both of them shall burn together, with none to quench them.”
• Isaiah 33:14 – “The sinners in Zion are afraid; trembling has seized the godless: “Who among us can dwell with the consuming fire? Who among us can dwell with everlasting burnings?”
• Isaiah 34:9-10 – “And the streams of Edom shall be turned into pitch, and her soil into sulfur; her land shall become burning pitch. Night and day it shall not be quenched; its smoke shall go up forever. From generation to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass through it forever and ever.”
• Isaiah 66:24 – “And they shall go out and look on the dead bodies of the men who have rebelled against me. For their worm shall not die, their fire shall not be quenched, and they shall be an abhorrence to all flesh.”
• Jeremiah 4:4 – “Circumcise yourselves to the Lord; remove the foreskin of your hearts, O men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem; lest my wrath go forth like fire, and burn with none to quench it, because of the evil of your deeds.”
• Ezekiel 20:47-48 – “Say to the forest of the Negeb, Hear the word of the Lord: Thus says the Lord God, Behold, I will kindle a fire in you, and it shall devour every green tree in you and every dry tree. The blazing flame shall not be quenched, and all faces from south to north shall be scorched by it. All flesh shall see that I the Lord have kindled it; it shall not be quenched.”
• See also 2 Samuel 23:7, Psalm 21:9, Isaiah 54:16, Jeremiah 7:20, 17:4, 27 and 21:12
That’s a lot of references to the eternal punishment of the wicked by fire. In fact, it’s the same imagery that Jesus drew from when he spoke of hell. He used the same words to describe hell. It seems clear there is actually a repetitive and recurring theme in the Old Testament. How can you argue this idea was foreign to Jews? That simply doesn’t hold up to the scriptural evidence.
With your arguments against Jesus as the Messiah now refuted, I would like to counter with the Old Testament prophecies that Jesus alone fulfilled. There are over 300 specific OT messianic prophecies that Jesus fulfilled during his short life on earth. This is amazing evidence; staggering really. Here are just a few:
• That he would come from the line of Judah (Genesis 49.10)
• Descended from David (2 Samuel 7:12-16, Isaiah 9:7, Jeremiah 23:5-6)
• That his ministry would be proceeded by a forerunner (Isaiah 40:3-5, Malachi 3:1, 4:5-6)
• The date of Jesus’ birth (Daniel 9:25)
• That he would be born of a virgin (Isaiah 7:14)
• That he would be born in Bethlehem (Micah 5:2)
• That he would also come out of Egypt (Hosea 11:1)
• That he would heal people and perform signs (Isaiah 35:5-6, 61:1-2)
• That he would be rejected by his fellow Jews (Psalms 118:22, Isaiah 8:14, 53:3)
• That he would be betrayed by a close friend (Psalms 41:9, 55:12-13)
• The exact price paid to Jesus’ betrayer (Zechariah 11:12-13)
• That he would be falsely and unjustly accused (Psalm 69, Is 53:9, 11-12)
• That he would be killed (Daniel 9:2, Jeremiah 31:15)
• The method of his execution (Numbers 21:6-9, Zechariah 12:10, Isaiah 53:3-6, 8, Psalm 22:16-18, 69:21
• That his executors would gamble for his clothes (Psalms 22:16-18)
• That none of his bones would be broken during his execution (Psalm 34:10)
• That he would die with criminals but be buried with the rich (Isaiah 53:9)
• That he would be resurrected (Psalm 16:8-11)
That’s just scratching the surface. There are over 300 of them. Peter Stoner (the Chairman of the Department of Mathematics and Astronomy at Pasadena City College until 1953, and Chairman of the Science Division of Westmont College from 1953-1957) calculated the probability of one man fulfilling only 8 Messianic prophecies was 1,000,000,000,000,000,000 to 1. He further calculated the odds of one person fulfilling just 48 of the prophecies was one chance in 10^157! It takes a pretty cynical and clouded mind to accept that kind of absurd coincidence.
It’s my prayer that this Christmas you would consider the truth of who that baby was who came 2,000 years ago. I pray you will see that He is exactly who the Old Testament foretold that He would be, a child born to us (Isaiah 9:6), of a virgin (Isaiah 7:14), in the small town of Bethlehem (Micah 5:2), who is called Immanuel, literally meaning God with us (Isaiah 7:14, Matt 1:23), that God came to live among us (Zech 2:10-11), that this baby would be Almighty God (Isaiah 9:6), and the Lord of our righteousness (Jeremiah 23:5-6), the one who is of old, called the ancient of days (Micah 5:2). I urge you to heed the warning of Moses and listen to the prophet he said would come after him. . .
Given the punishments I’ve shown that the OT does say God will bring upon the wicked, I wouldn’t want to be found to not have listened to the prophet He established. All the evidence is there, what you will do with Jesus Christ? Will you listen to Him? Will you accept His claim to be God or will you reject Him?
December 22, 2017 at 10:33 am
I know some of these comments are older, BUT, listen to what Jake is saying to all! First thing you do, is you ask Jesus to come into your life and heart! Then you repent all your sins! All of them, and never sin again! At least try not to sin again, and if you do, repent again! Then pray! Pray every day! Jesus said, “I’d rather you go into a closet and shut the door and pray to me”! People, Jake said it, God and Jesus loves us more than you could ever imagine, but you can’t expect to turn to Jesus and everything just becomes prefect! We lived a life full of sin and its going to take time to develop a close relationship with God and Jesus. But trust me and Jake, it will happen, and when it does, you’ll know trust me, because it’s the most amazing feeling of love and comfort you can ever experience! Something is happening in my life that I WILL share with anyone who wants to hear it. So, baby steps, you WILL get discouraged at times, but just think about what Jesus went through for us, and what God has promised those who follow his only begotten son, Jesus, a life of eternal life in glorified bodies! Living on the new earth and heavens, with God living with us! I mean, come on, I can go on and on about the paradise God has planned for us, the very life we have now, and I know there’s trials, but this is every person’s test, this life we live now! God just wants to see who is great full enough to receive this amazing eternal life he has planned for us! Remember everyone, he gave us life, he didn’t have too, he chose too, because he loves us sooooo much! And we should love him just as much! More then our own children! I do, and my girls love God more than me and I’m so proud of them for understanding that.. So God bless everyone, and stay on that narrow path, it’s harder, but so much better!
January 7, 2018 at 1:45 am
Thanks for this enlightening & educational message.
January 22, 2018 at 12:52 pm
What an amazing message! Christianity truly isn’t a religion but a relationship.
March 17, 2018 at 4:17 am
Youre so cool! I dont suppose Ive read anything like that prior to. So nice to discover somebody by original ideas on this subject. realy appreciate starting this up. this website is one thing that is required on the internet, a person if we do originality. beneficial job for bringing new stuff to the web!
April 28, 2018 at 12:07 pm
It’s a beautiful analysis! You are in the True!
http://otherworlds.byethost15.com/At_the_heart_of_the_greatest_mysteries.html
https://everythingabouttheafterlife.wordpress.com/
May 17, 2018 at 4:35 pm
Thanks so much, this blessed me
May 23, 2018 at 2:23 pm
This was enlightening. Bless Jesus’s holy name! Amen
May 31, 2018 at 10:58 am
Read the whole article. Loved it!
I was amazed on how a treasure like this since 2008 can hold up and only 10 years have gone by.
Blessings to all.
Wishing you the dearest
Lía Loredo
July 1, 2018 at 4:10 am
i like what you have said and all your enlightenment with the problem of Marion. Can you send me to my email all your response to him. I would not get tired reading it again and again. May God be with us always.
July 2, 2018 at 8:48 am
Bryan,
I emailed you my responses to Marion that are publicly posted on this comment feed. We also corresponded some through email, but she has requested those not be made public.
God bless,
Jake
July 15, 2018 at 9:26 am
If christianity is not a religion then it should not be tax exempt. Before you mention other tax exempt non-profit groups they all have to fill huge amounts of paperwork to prove they are non-profit. Churches don’t.
Churches in the U.S. don’t have to pay income tax, because section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code exempts “religious” organizations (among charities and other ‘non-profit organizations’) from taxation. If Christianity doesn’t qualify as a religion, a Christian church wouldn’t qualify for the tax exemption under IRC 501(c)(3), and would have to pay income tax.[note 2]
Amazingly, no American church whose leaders claim that “Christianity is not a religion” has bolstered that argument by stepping forward to pay income tax.
I wish there was a edit button.
July 16, 2018 at 10:25 am
Sanne,
I’m sorry, but you clearly don’t understand tax law. Section 501c3 of Title 26 applies to all non-profit corporations, regardless of whether they are “religious” or not. The only qualifying criteria is that “no part of the net earnings of which inures to the benefit of any private shareholder or individual”. Yes, religious organizations fall under this, but so do all types of other charitable corporations (like Kiwanis, Boys and Girls Clubs of America, Shriners, Boy Scouts, etc.). Churches have the same bookkeeping requirements as these organizations, and are subject to the same audits. I have been on the board for several charitable organizations (including churches). If you formed an atheist society which was non-profit and charitable, you would also be tax exempt under 501c3. Thus, as I have repeatedly said in comments on this page, the fact that Christian churches are tax exempt doesn’t make Christianity a religion (as if the Federal government were even an authority on what Christianity is).
Regardless, the use of the word “religious” in the 501c3 wording isn’t even the same use of the word I’m using here. It doesn’t mean the same thing. You are completely missing the point of this blog post. There is something completely unique and different about Christianity that is different from all man-made religions. I’d like to talk to you about this point, the point I’m making. I’d just assume we not debate totally unrelated issue of tax law. That’s completely pointless.
Jake
July 25, 2018 at 7:17 pm
Hello Jake!
God bless you.
I have some questions. First of all I wanted to thank you for this article.
Well I always attended to a Pentecostal church as a child. My mom type of church has many rules, like for example: Ladies need to wear skirts, can’t cut their hair, can’t wear jewelry (only wedding ring) I stopped going to church because to me these rules were ridiculous.
When I was around 20 my point of view changed a little and I started to believe that God don’t look at that kind of stuff. Years passed by and I started attending to church in 2016 (I was 25) I wasn’t part of the church or anything, I was just visiting every Sunday. It was Baptist church.
This year I got into some custudy problem and I started looking for lawyers and it all got into too much for me and I said : GOD, I CANNOT DO THIS BY MYSELF, I NEED YOU.
It was a very bad time for me but God gave me peace. Two months like that. I was good, in peace and feeling awesome. My relationship with God was growing BUT one time talking to my sister she started on telling me how earrings were bad, how this and that were bad, that we’re supposed to be saints, how we need to look different from the rest. I couldn’t stand it, I started to question “am I applying to much makeup? is my shirt bad because it doesn’t have sleeves?, is this bad?, is this bad? Do I look Christian with this shirt?
I got too much for me to handle and I stopped praying, I stopped reading the Bible. I didn’t want to know nothing about church or God for that matter. I remember feeling HORRIBLE because he gave me peace but what my sister told me took away my peace. After a month like that I felt like I just need God with me. Now I attend to another church. This one is Pentecostal but the ladies wear pants, jewelry, etc. But my family said that they don’t practice the Sound doctrine.
My problem with this is that that’s all I can’t think about. When I go to church I can’t not even worship God thinking about the way I’m dressed, even when I know that I’m not showing nothing. What it makes worsts is when I go, lets say on youtube and other Christians are saying the same thing to the people on the video, for example the lady singing a song to God and worshipping him wearing pants and people start telling her: Oh you should dress more decent when she was perfectly dressed to me.
How can overcome this feeling?
I’ve pray about it but it is all I can think about.
Do you think that God only look at our hearts?
I feel like they are better Christian than me.
Are they being religious about this topic?
I even feel like I’m being rebellious because I’m refusing to follow their rules. I’m even scared that God might not like my attitude towards this even when He hasn’t said anything to me.
August 12, 2018 at 10:57 am
Hello,
I was looking for answer what is difference between faith and religion.
There is plenty of “answers” to be found on web.
Your explanation and quotes right from Bible make sense. It is clear and right to the point.
Thank you.
May God bless you,
Ray
August 13, 2018 at 10:28 pm
I just spent the last couple of hours reading through your article and all of the comments, spanning years now, and I find it very intriguing that that there are patterns that begin to emerge.
First of all, there are many very heartfelt notes that display obvious love for God and yearning for new understandings of what it means to be His child by many who’ve penned their thoughts, which truly warms my heart. But, there are just as many that are so full of anger, pain, and hate.
Those who take the time to sharpen their tongues and leave such biting messages, while saddening, also provide some poingient insight as to the condition of a heart absent of Jesus Christ. That alone, at least to me, is evidence enough, and going back years to search for historical evidence or scientific proof is not necessary. It is in this very forum. Just like the Bible says, we will be able to distinguish between a child of God and those that are lost by the fruits of their spirit.
This forum and platform for debate had been a blessing to me, and I hope to many others, and I plan on saving the link for future reference.
Thank you Jake for your time and wisdom,
Kat
August 14, 2018 at 2:56 am
Hi 🙂 I have read your article and as many of the comments as I could. Thank you so much for posting it! I do believe that me reading this text strengthened my faith. As a fourteen year old Christian, I am always looking for things to connect me with God when I’m at home. I am newly Christian and none of my family are Christian, or at all religious. I am writing this comment as I am especially grateful for people like you Jake, who strive to spread the Word. I guess I am also seeking advice and teachings, as when at home it can be difficult to connect with God like I do at church and youth group, when I’m surrounded by fellow Christians. I have a few questions, I thought I would just ask…. no pressure to answer.
1. What do I do on bad days, as in when I’m not as on fire for Jesus, or am having doubts?
2. How do I increase pray and weave it into my everyday life?
3. How do I resist temptation in my normal non christian life?
4. I have recently experienced great trauma (before I was Christian or even knew God) I am finding it hard to understand or move on. What would you do?
Of course, if you feel uncomfortable answering, or don’t know how to properly answer these personal questions no worries at all!
Thank you once again!!!
Freda
August 14, 2018 at 3:35 pm
Amazing!!!!!
August 25, 2018 at 5:56 pm
Hi brother, good mornin to you.
I appreciate your zeal for helping others to rest in the finished work of Christ.
August 31, 2018 at 3:09 am
“I’ve learnt very early on that Christianity is not a religion and it is not an institution, it is a person. It was enormously helpful for me to discover that Christianity is Christ and and that what matters is a personal relationship to Christ.
So the verses which came to mean much to me were Philippians 3 verses 8,9, where the Apostle Paul says, “That what was gain to me I counted loss for Christ. Indeed I have counted all things but loss in comparison with the overwhelming gain of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord for whom I’ve suffered the loss of all things (Paul went on) and count them as refuse or rubbish in order that I may gain Christ and be found in him, not having my own righteousness based on Law, but the righteous that comes from God through faith in Christ.”
It’s all Christ, Christ, Christ, Christ. Knowing Him, loving Him, serving Him, trusting Him, gaining Him. ‘To me to live is Christ’, Paul said, and I think, I hope without boasting I can say the same, it is a Person.”
—John Stott
October 4, 2018 at 11:32 pm
Truly, salvation is not found in any religion, it’s found in a Person, and His name is Jesus!
October 16, 2018 at 4:55 pm
“Religion is a system of beliefs or a code of moral conduct that judges (qualifies or disqualifies) a person based on their adherence and obedience to certain codes, rules, laws, traditions, or the performance of required acts.”
Sounds like Christianity to me.
October 16, 2018 at 10:46 pm
Oyvind,
This article is an argument demonstrating exactly how that description cannot accurately describe the teaching of Jesus Christ. Did you read it? What “Sounds like Christianity to you” isn’t really relevant. What matters is what Jesus said it is. I fear you have made the mistake of confusing the actions and behavior or some Christians (which I am actually critiquing in this article) with the teaching of the Bible. Do many people who call themselves Christians practice empty religion? Emphatically yes! That is my point. That, however, is not true Christianity (as defined by what Jesus and his Apostles taught and that Jesus demonstrated with His life).
If you want to challenge or critique my actual arguments or interpretation of Scripture, by all means please provide your rebuttal. It’s not sufficient to simply say I am wrong while not even engaging with my arguments. This is not providing anything worthy of consideration or dialog. Why does it sound like Christianity to you? In what way does Christianity taught by Jesus satisfy that definition?
God bless,
Jake
October 16, 2018 at 10:48 pm
Christianity fits every definition of religion. Supernatural beings, magical events, scripture with lots of rules and rites to adhere to.
That it’s one of few religions that spares you automatically if you follow Jesus, and casts you to eteranl torment if you guess wrong or have never heard of Christianity, doesn’t change that.
October 20, 2018 at 8:23 pm
To Jake McWhirter,
I read and appreciate everything you wrote in this article. I also read some comments and really loved your responses. I have fallen short in my faith recently, and I prayed on it. Funny how months later, God spoke to me through your words!!! That “should have had a v-8” moment!!! Haha!!! I have shared this page with many. With that said, I am a christian. I speak to others about my relationship with God and how I try to follow His word. I am the first one to say that I have not read the whole bible. I truly believe that it does not make my relationship in my heart any less with our Lord; however, it does prohibit me from referencing the truth through scripture…. I am looking for some advice. Tonight, I met a gentleman who, through long conversation, flat out told me that I am a disgrace to “my race” for being in a bi-ratial relationship and how women should be “slaves to man” and “I am fit to be his 3rd wife” where he would ” shave my head, clip my nails and justly have me have 5 children by him”. I was dumbfounded. I continued to talk with him and attempt to share my personal love with our Lord and explain the difference between my love and “his truth”…how can someone be condemned to hell by the color of their skin, or loving someone who is darker complected ? I believe in environmental adaptation and therefore, believe that some people are darker complected genetically based on their environment, but that we are all God’s creations and I don’t believe that He will condemn someone for not being white. This gentleman kept preaching bible versus to me (I apologize, it was too many at once to retain the versus) and telling me why I was a disgrace to the Lord’s people and how he liked me but should have never shook my hand because “I’m a whore” and “satan is talking through me”. I continued to express that I am not judging him, but trying to understand his thought process- why does it matter if a man is black, brown, tan, white, etc… This man was relentless. I shared my personal belief that God does not see color, and therefore, we should not. This man continued to degrade me, as well as my husband (who he had never met). I bit my tongue from the negativity and the big “F- you” I wanted to give him, and continued to encourage him to talk so that I could, in turn, speak what I believe is truth ( that as long as you choose to believe, fully in your heart, in God, and that Jesus died for our sins, and that He loves us so much to give us the choice to love him back, that if you do, you will have everlasting life). He continued to express to me how he was going to start a war and that I was going to be subservient to the white man and then pay my afterlife in hell for my “sins” against “our race”. I felt that I needed to pray for this man, but I also felt that there was nothing that was going to sway his thought process. I ended up praying anyway on my way home, but I found it difficult. I, unfortunately, told my husband and a couple friends about my interaction and I spoke ill of it. I am at a loss….I know that the Holy Spirit works in mysterious ways but I also think, if God gives us the choice to follow/trust in Him, then people who are closed to His word, and are using it as a means to their own destructive will may not be helped. I really felt tonight that praying for this individual was useless, that he had his mind set… I know that I cannot know this for sure and I’m happy I tried, but what do I do when I feel so helpless? I appreciate any input you have in this matter. Please respond.
Your sister,
Ashley
November 1, 2018 at 10:52 pm
Ashley,
Thanks for writing me. I am so sorry you were treated so disrespectfully and hatefully by that man claiming to represent our Lord. As I believe you know, he was NOT speaking truth, and HE was the one Satan was speaking through. It makes me very sad that there are still people out there believing and speaking this ungodly, anti-gospel filth attempting to mask itself as Christianity.
God created all of us. We all have value and worth because we are all created in God’s image. God created diversity in skin color and sex because he loves variety, and as a master artist He loves to express Himself in the diversity of His beautiful creation. This is just like how there are countless varieties of flowers which speak to us of the varied beauty of God that can never be fully expressed in creation. We are a beautiful, diverse reflection of the beauty of our maker.
There is no scriptural basis for his claims. Jesus, Himself, was not white. The first converts to Christianity where not white, they were Jews. Then people from the Middle East and the Mediterranean. Then Africans, long before Caucasians (Acts 8:26-40). God chose a people who were least among the population of the world, and not esteemed, as his chosen people to reach the whole world. From the beginning, even though the Jewish nation was God’s chosen people, His mission was for the whole world, for all the peoples and nations on earth. Even his choosing to use the nation of Israel was with the goal to bless ALL NATIONS. Even though most of the Jews somehow misunderstood this, it is a constant and consistent theme throughout the whole bible. Here are just a few of the many examples . . .
There are so many more than this. Clearly, God is no respecter of race. There is literally nothing in scripture to support the ludicrous claim that one race is superior to any other.
You said you were, “trying to understand his thought process- why does it matter if a man is black, brown, tan, white, etc.” As I have shown, it doesn’t matter (according to God). As far as the thought process of the man you spoke with, I can’t really speak to that. My guess is that people want to feel superior to others in some way. The Pharisees tried to be holier than others and rule that over them. White supremacists think something as trivial as their skin color makes them superior to others. They start with that assumption and try to force the scripture to conform to it. It’s an abuse of Scripture. Whenever we try to force the bible to say what we want it to say we run the peril of losing our souls. Scripture is intended to cut us, not the other way around.
I am glad that you did pray for this man. However, you said, “I really felt tonight that praying for this individual was useless . . .” I want to stress that no one is ever too far gone for God to reach them. Salvation is a miracle of God every time a sinner turns from death to life. It is a work of God from beginning to end. He takes a heart of stone and turns it into a heart of flesh (Ez 36:26). It’s a supernatural work. It defies human logic and reasoning. Many times, God will choose to save those who are most against Him and most hardened in their rebellion, so that He gets the glory from their conversion. Just look at the Apostle Paul, who was murdering and imprisoning Christians before God overpowered him. If God can save Paul, He can save the white supremacist and anyone else . . . like me.
Remember that this man’s salvation doesn’t depend on you. God can use you and your prayers as a means to bring it about, but it isn’t the result of your words. God saves sinners. We are just His tools. It is just our job to be faithful to tell people the truth (like you did) and pray for them (like you did) and leave the rest to God. Don’t dwell on it (unless God keeps putting him on your heart, in which case you should continue praying). Try not to take it too much to heart. You did your job and shared the gospel with him. Leave the rest to God. There does come a point that if someone is not receptive to the gospel message you dust off your feet and move on (Matt 10:14). This means you don’t dwell on it or let it bother you. You just entrust them to God.
At the beginning of your note you said, “I am the first one to say that I have not read the whole bible. I truly believe that it does not make my relationship in my heart any less with our Lord.” I just want to encourage you that reading the bible regularly DOES impact your relationship with God. It is not only that you will have more knowledge about God but also that you will know Him better. How do you think my wife would feel if I said, “I’m the first one to say that I haven’t spent very much time with my wife lately and I don’t really know much about her desires, dreams, needs, or how she’s feeling right now. But, I truly believe that it doesn’t make my relationship with her in my heart any less”? You’d probably say (if you are wise) that it doesn’t work that way. Marriage requires effort, attention and time. You can’t be in an intimate relationship with someone unless you spend quality time with them. The primary way we do this with God is through bible study and prayer. This is how He reveals who He is to us. This is the means the Spirit uses to change our hearts and align our thinking to His (Jn 17:17). It is through His word that shapes and changes us into His image. It is indispensable. Your relationship “in your heart” will starve if it isn’t being regularly fed by bible study.
It is true that your relationship won’t change (as in you will still be saved) if you don’t study God’s word. But you will starving and won’t grow until you dive into the wonderful word of God. Don’t minimize this! If you do, you do it to your own detriment.
God bless,
Jake
November 6, 2018 at 4:33 pm
Wow thank you so much for teaching me.
March 25, 2019 at 1:48 am
[…] good thing about christianity is that , it is not a religion at all. Christianity is the life of God in human body, it is divinity at work in humanity. When the Bible […]
April 14, 2019 at 9:58 am
I totally agree. Awesome post!
May 4, 2019 at 2:26 pm
Well, the truth is that Christianity IS a religion, just another cult invented by men, nothing more. For most people it is only due to the brainwashing received in childhood, not due to evidence, that one would believe such insanity. The Bible, like all other books, is NOT self-authenticating. There must be evidence outside a book to confirm its claims, presently there is none. Exactly the opposite; Christianity has been destroyed by the FACTS of reality. Which is a good thing , BTW.
All gods are created by MAN, in his own image, not the other way around.That is why there is NO evidence for any of them & they all just happen to sound like us, except with superpowers.
One can believe whatever they want, but that does not make them facts. No one has provided evidence for this nor any other religion.They are just fictional imaginings which do not correspond to reality. It is very arrogant, delusional, & insulting for people to keep insisting that their OPINIONS are facts. If one had actual evidence it could be presented on the world stage & most would accept the truth. But alas, has never been done…
May 6, 2019 at 3:45 pm
Kris,
Thanks for visiting my web page and commenting. I enjoy dialoging with people on these issues. I believe strongly that robust discussion and debate on these matters helps us all learn and grow, regardless of if we end up agreeing or not. I welcome your perspective and will attempt to address the content of your comments as objectively and fairly as I can. I trust you will do the same with me.
You claimed that most people believe in Christianity by “brainwashing” and “not due to evidence”. While it may be true that many people come to belief in Christianity because of how they were raised, this does nothing to establish it as a false belief. This is called a genetic logical fallacy. You can’t assume that a belief is incorrect simply by evaluating the origin of the claim. This is sloppy reasoning.
Further, this ignores the countless people who have converted to Christianity who were raised atheistic. There are numerous prominent examples of well-known people who became Christians due to their investigation of the evidence for Jesus. Renowned authors C.S. Lewis, G.K. Chesterton and Lee Strobal are a few prominent examples that come immediately to mind. There are many, many more.
You also made the outlandish claim that no one has ever presented any actual evidence of Christianity to the world stage for evaluation. This claim is simply untrue. It is so untrue that it’s hard to imagine you’ve even looked for it. There are literally hundreds of thousands of books, documentaries, web pages, peer reviewed scientific papers, talks, debates and presentations that do this very thing! A quick search I just did on Amazon.com produced over 10,000 books on the subject of Christian Apologetics (the discipline of defending the claims of Christianity by presenting evidence). I would suggest you read one. If you’d like to, I will mail you a free copy of the book, “The Case for Christ”, by ex-atheist and renowned investigative journalist Lee Strobal. Just send me your address. I’ll even pay the shipping, if you promise to read it.
In fact, the very web page you are commenting on does the thing you claim no one has ever done! Much of my web page is presenting objective evidence for the Christian faith. I even have a page on here titled “Evidence You Can’t Ignore”. Have you even viewed that page? It seems like it would be fair to review my page on this subject before claiming no one has ever done it. In addition to that page, I also have several other blog posts I’ve written that present compelling evidence for Christianity. Please also take a look at these. I present them to the “world stage” for consideration:
• Why Believe in Christianity Over Other Religions?
• The Bible – Letter Explaining Why I Believe
• Does Archaeological Evidence Support the History Recorded in the Bible?
• Can the New Testament Really be Trusted?
I must admit I had a chuckle at the hypocrisy of the conjunction of your assertions that Christianity is “just another cult invented by men, nothing more . . . “All gods are created by MAN, in his own image, not the other way around” . . . “It is very arrogant, delusional, & insulting for people to keep insisting that their OPINIONS are facts.”
The unavoidable hypocrisy shown in these comments is immense. You are making bold, unsubstantiated, universal claims about Christianity in particular, and all religions in general . . . all while stating that anyone who states their opinion as fact (without evidence) is arrogant, delusional and insulting. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black! You are simply stating your opinion that religions are created by man and that Christianity is a cult. These are not established facts. You present no evidence to support this claim. It’s just your opinion. It’s fine to have an opinion, we all have them. But, what seems arrogant, delusional and insulting to me is to come on someone’s web page and criticize them for just presenting their opinion without facts…while presenting your opinion, without facts! Where’s your evidence that these things are true?
The truth is, there is a TON of evidence for Christianity. Probably the best place to start with demonstrating this point is the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus. It would probably surprise you to know that there are many established historical facts regarding these events. These facts are multiply and independently attested to in all the historical sources. They are recorded as history by both Christian sources as well as Jewish and Roman historians. Virtually all modern historians agree that these are historical facts (even the most skeptical secular ones). They are just too well established to deny. Here they are . . .
1. Jesus died by public, Roman crucifixion and was buried in a tomb.
2. Jesus’ tomb was found empty very soon after his interment.
3. The disciples had experiences that they believed were the actual appearances of the risen Christ. These experiences occurred to both individuals and groups of people.
4. Due to these experiences, the disciple’s lives were thoroughly transformed from doubters who were afraid to identify themselves with Jesus to bold proclaimers of his death and resurrection. They were even willing to die for their belief.
5. The proclamation of the Resurrection took place very early, from the beginning of church history.
6. James, the brother of Jesus and a skeptic before this time, became a follower of Jesus when he believed he also saw the risen Jesus.
7. Just a few years later, Paul became a believer, due to an experience that he also believed was an appearance of the risen Jesus.
All theories of what happened to Jesus must be evaluated against these known facts. So, the question becomes, which theory best explains these facts? I challenge you to present another viable theory (other than the claim made the eyewitnesses: that Jesus rose from the dead) that can fully satisfy the known facts surrounding the event. This is what has never been done before! Many have tried but no one has been able to explain all the facts away. For a more thorough discussion of this argument see my page: Why Believe in Christianity Over Other Religions?
Kris, I really do want to continue dialog with you. I am not sharing this because I want to be argumentative. I am doing it because I care, and I think I can really help you here, if you are truly wanting to look at the evidence. Please write back after you have read and considered the evidence I’ve presented here.
God bless,
Jake
May 6, 2019 at 8:53 pm
Excellent reply to Kris Jake. And great books to read. Thanks.
July 16, 2019 at 3:23 am
Hi dear Philippians.l real appreciate your teaching of Grace ofcaurse l’ve learned a lot from you.But l’ve got few questions of which l need your explanation.1question is your respond to brother wisdom Hezekiah,the guy he asked you if there is nothing wrong with drinking and (you responded yes) but one of paul’s teaching he said that THE DRANKERD,FORECASTERS,LIERSN SO ON WILL NEVER INHERITY THE KINGDOM OF GOD.Ofcause l include the fornicaters because in one of your respond yiu said there is nothing wrong having sexy outside wedlock,you said GOD doesn’t forbid that.So this is contral to what paul said,thank you sir,please all l just need to understand this thank you sir.
July 16, 2019 at 1:01 pm
Chris,
I would NEVER say that there is nothing wrong with having sex outside of marriage! The bible is very clear that sex was created only to be between a man and a women within the bounds of marriage. Any other kid of sex is a sin. You claim that I stated otherwise? I think you misunderstood me somehow. Perhaps I was unclear. Can you point out what I said that gave you that impression? Which comment was it in? I did say the following above in comment #61. . .
I think that’s pretty clear that I don’t condone fornication or drunkenness.
Regarding your remarks on drinking alcohol, I believe you are conflating drinking with being drunk. They are not the same thing. Jesus drank alcohol. Yet, he did so without sin. All the biblical commands regarding alcohol are about not drinking it to excess (e.g. not becoming drunk with wine). Nowhere in the bible is the total abstinence of alcohol promoted, and nowhere is moderate consumption of alcohol prohibited. Those are simply the facts. Certainly, being drunk (consuming alcohol to the point that your judgement is impaired and you make unwise decisions) is sinful. But, prohibiting moderate alcohol use because it can be abused is like forbidding all sex because some people have sinful and immoral sex. Sex is good and a blessing when used as God designed it (within heterosexual marriage). The same is true with alcohol. Don’t throw the baby out with the bath water (as we say in my country). You may certainly abstain from it if you choose or feel led by God, but don’t insist others do so. This is legalism.
In my response to Wisdom Hezekiah (Comment #24) I said the following in reference to drinking alcohol and listening to music . . . “How they are used and why they are used is what is relevant. It is always about the heart.” Here I am saying that it is not the consumption of any alcohol that is sinful, but rather how you do it (in moderation or in excess) and why you do it (to glorify God or as a form of idolatry) which determines whether or not it is sinful. It is the condition of your heart. Hopefully this helps clarify some.
Jake
September 29, 2019 at 8:41 pm
Most Christian’s would be shocked if they really were given the truth about what the gospel message all about. Many search the scriptures for eternal life. But none come to our Lord Jesus Christ to have the zoe Life. Few indeed find the narrow path. Few are willing to live by the Spirit and for the Spirit.
September 30, 2019 at 8:50 am
Brother Lawrence,
I find your comment vague, confusing and dripping with a tone of unhealthy spiritual arrogance. Your comment sounds as if you see yourself as some sort of spiritual elitist who needs to educate everyone else on what the “truth about the gospel” is, and that the rest of us can’t seem to get it. The gospel is plain and simple. It is deeply profound, yet it is not difficult to understand. They are truths simple children can understand (Deut 6:6–7). They are easily able to be understood by all (Deut 30:11–14), even by the simple minded (Ps 19:7, 119:130).
It is true that the bible says few are saved, but it is not because the truth of the gospel is hard to understand. Rather, it is because apart from intervention by the Holy Spirit, in our state of falleness and rebellion, mankind is unable to respond and submit to God. It’s not that we can’t understand the truth, it is that we love the lie more than the truth (Rom 1:26). We choose darkness instead of light (John 3:19). As Mark Twain (Samuel Clemons) once said, “It’s not the parts of the bible I don’t understand that bother me…it’s the parts I do understand.”
We don’t need some spiritual elitist to reveal hidden “truths” of the gospel that we don’t understand. Rather, we need to pray that God will convict people of their sin and rebellion and grant them the ability to embrace the truth that is clear and simple.
You said, “Few are willing to live by the Spirit and for the Spirit.” What do you mean by this? For those who have a saving encounter with the Almighty, you can’t help but change. God gives you a new heart (Ez 36:26) and writes His law on our hearts (Heb 10:16). The person who is truly saved will desire to live by the Spirit. This is a work of God, not us. NO ONE is “willing to live by the Spirit”, unless God changes them and gives them this desire. This willingness never originates from us.
You can’t take credit for God’s work.
Do you believe people are saved because of their faithfulness to “walk by the Spirit” or by God’s faithfulness to complete the work He began in them? Does salvation depend on man’s faithfulness or God’s? I think the bible speaks very clearly on that point (e.g. Phil 1:6, 1 Thes 3:13, 1 Thes 5:23-24, 2 Thes 1:11-12, 2 Thes 3:3-5, 2 Tim 1:12, 2 Tim 4:18, Heb 6:11, Heb 7:25, Heb 10:22, 39, 1 Peter 1:3-5, 23, 1 Peter 5:10 . . . just to list a few examples).
Jake
October 5, 2019 at 12:25 pm
Enjoyed this article a great deal, and thank you for investing so much energy into it. I would like to know from which version of the Bible you reference in this article. Many Blessings!
October 16, 2019 at 11:34 pm
What are your views and opinions on homosexual relationships, and do you think it is sinful to marry same gender..?
October 17, 2019 at 1:06 pm
Patrick,
Thank you. Most of the bible verses are taken from the New Living Translation (NLT) due to it’s easy readability for all reading levels (and to aid those who don’t speak English as a first language). Some verses may also be form the English Standard Version (ESV), which can be a little harder to read but has greater accuracy to the original language.
October 17, 2019 at 1:45 pm
Chad,
It doesn’t much matter what my opinion is on same sex relationships. What really matters is what God says about it. The Bible is very clear on this subject. No serious Bible scholar will contend otherwise. Homosexual relationships are called sinful consistently in both the Old and New Testaments (e.g. Lev 18:22, 20:13, 1 Cor 6:9-10, Rom 1:26-28). Jesus also makes it clear that God, Himself, designed marriage. He created marriage, so He gets to define it. Jesus claims marriage is a lifelong bond between one man and one woman (Matthew 19:4-6, cf Gen 1:28). Any other kind of sexual relations outside of this is called sinful in the Bible (see Gal 5:19-21). This includes homosexuality, fornication, adultery, bestiality, prostitution, pornography, etc. Further, the Bible claims that sexual sin is, in some ways, more severe than some other types of sins, because it’s a sin against your own body (see 1 Corinthians 6:16-20). Thus, anyone who claims that God does not condemn homosexual sexual acts is grossly misrepresenting what the Bible says about this.
However, this does not mean the God hates those with same-sex attraction. God loves all sinners even while we are in our sin (Rom 5:8). Jesus came to save sinners. Even though homosexuality is a terrible sin, it isn’t by any means the WORST sin. The Apostle Paul was a persecutor of the Church and stood by approving of the martyrdom of Stephen. After Paul was converted to Christianity, he wrote the the Church saying, “This is a trustworthy saying, and everyone should accept it: “Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners”—and I am the worst of them all.” (1 Tim 1:15). Paul’s sins were far worse than the sin of homosexuality, yet God loved him, and Jesus came into the world to suffer and die to save him! As Christians, we are not called to judge anyone outside the faith. We aren’t here claiming to be more righteous than others. Rather, we recognize that we too are sinners saved by the grace and mercy of God. We are beggars wanting to tell other beggars where they can find bread. We are called to loved everyone and to point everyone to Jesus, where they can find forgiveness for their sins and the help to escape slavery to sin and the resulting death it inevitably brings.
Our hope is not in our own righteousness, but in the washing, sanctification and justification that comes from the Lord Jesus Christ by the Holy Spirit. The Spirit changes us and gradually helps us to shed old desires and to desire to be like Jesus Christ. Hopefully that helps you understand what the Bible teaches on this subject. Much more could be said on it, of course.
Jake
October 22, 2019 at 1:13 pm
Wow!!! God led me here. God bless you.
October 25, 2019 at 4:35 am
I really liked how you covered all the important points and will read this again and again so that I am comfortable explaining it to others. For now I emailed to my family, please pray that they read it and God allows them to hear it and understand so they can finally believe.
Thank you so much for doing a good job on writing this!!
December 28, 2019 at 9:04 pm
Oh. My. Gosh.
I just posted a quick blog last night about this very subject. Yours is in much greater detail and I’m incredibly grateful to have stumbled upon it!
Good stuff!
January 3, 2020 at 8:29 am
This Blog is the End of All Confusion!
Selah.
March 27, 2020 at 1:57 pm
Thank you sooo much.
May 17, 2020 at 7:08 pm
Great article! Faith is a word we so often hear everywhere. “Just have faith,” “Keep the faith,” “Walk in faith” – these are the common expressions about faith that people throw around all the time.
Please read my blog about The Importance of Having Faith
July 24, 2020 at 3:56 am
Tithes is it religion
July 24, 2020 at 12:09 pm
Elisha,
I certainly agree that teaching you must give money in order to gain favor or forgiveness from God would constitute a religion. But, that’s not what Christianity teaches. In fact, there is no command to “tithe” at all in the New Testament! A tithe is the Old Testament command for the Jews to give a tenth of everything they produced or earned to God. As a theocracy, the nation of Israel’s whole society was supported and funded by religious tithes and offerings. This was the form of taxation for the nation of Israel.
As Christians, we don’t live in a theocracy today. There is no biblical command on people to tithe 10%. This is a common misconception (so don’t feel bad for not knowing that). We are only called to live generously and sacrificially (Acts 20:35, also see the example of the widow in Mark 12:41-44 and Paul’s instruction in 1 Timothy 6:17-18). We are told that God only wants offerings that are freely and cheerfully given, not because someone is forcefully compelled to, but because they WANT to (2 Corinthians 9:6-7). We are not ordered to give any certain amount. Christianity doesn’t work that way. For a Christian, the motivation to give is different. We are taught that God will reward everything done or given in His service in eternity (Rom 2:6, Matt 6:4). Thus, we are storing up eternal, imperishable treasure for ourselves in heaven when we generously give here on earth (Matt 6:19-21, Luke 6:38). We are encouraged not to store up wealth and treasure on earth but to invest it in what matters for eternity.
We are encouraged to provide for the needs of our own family (1 Tim 5:8), to live generously towards others in need, especially within the Church (1 Corinthians 16:2, James 5:1-6), and to financially support the Church and those who serve it (1 Tim 5:17-18). But, these contributions are intended to be motivated by love, thankfulness for what God has done for us, and a desire to store up eternal treasure. They are NOT compulsory. We are promised that God will supply all of our basic needs, so we do not have to worry about providing for ourselves, tomorrow (Matt 6:25-34, 7:11, Phil 4:11-13, Luk 6:68). We should never let that keep us from being generous.
While we are not commanded to give a set amount, we are cautioned that the love of money is a root of much evil (1 Tim 6:10), that how we spend our money is an indicator of what we truly value most (Matt 6:21), and indicates if we really are followers of God, because you can’t serve both money and God (Matt 6:24). We are warned that it is very difficult for rich people to be saved, because their love of money and possessions often keeps them from wholeheartedly loving God and serving Him (Mark 8:36, 10:23-27). Thus, while giving money isn’t a stipulation or requirement that earns you a relationship with God or salvation in Christianity, voluntary generosity is a true sign that one is saved. If a person doesn’t desire to freely give to God (or His people in need) they should seriously ask themselves if they truly belong to God. Do they serve God or money? This is an internal test we can use to help us evaluate if we are truly saved or not. If we find that we are joyously giving, without compulsion, this is one means of assurance that we are truly saved.
For more on tithing please read my comment #55 above.
Jake
August 28, 2020 at 10:46 pm
This is beautiful am blessed with this word. I learnt a lot l
September 16, 2020 at 7:15 pm
Loved it. The power of God is demonstrated in this, He used a non-beleiving teacher to give the absolute accurate difference between religion and Christianity. AWESOME!
October 2, 2020 at 3:33 pm
This article is one of the most true and beautiful descriptions of who God is. I have no idea when you wrote this and I hope you are well in your life. This is amazing and I thank you. I have shared this wordpress article on my FB page and am wondering if you have any other writings I can share. God Bless you.
November 7, 2020 at 1:25 am
Today I am really blessed by *HIM* I have by reading this litrecher have madeup my to reach out to HIM & plead for forgiveness of all the Sins committed by me in the past Jesus is the Only way to Heven, hold His hand try to walk his way the past h to succeed
November 19, 2020 at 5:52 pm
Thank you for distinguishing between religion and Chritianity.
There are so many that believe we need to earn our salvation, when in fact it has already been granted to us, all God asks is that is that we put our faith in hím, and treat our fellow man as we would ourselves.
No hoops to jump through, no circus tricks to prove our faith.
God knows each mans heart and if it true, we will share in God’s Glory.
January 13, 2021 at 9:54 am
Sorry, but Christianity is a relationship not a religion…
January 13, 2021 at 1:30 pm
Yep, That’s kind of the whole point I’m making in this blog. You should read it, you might like it 😉
June 1, 2021 at 1:45 pm
[…] Post además de otras que encontré en la red apunta a citas populares atribuidas a John Stottcomo la siguienteque parece sacada de un libro/entrevista (lamentablemente no encuentro el origen definitivo de la […]
August 27, 2021 at 2:46 pm
Amen thank you for your wonderful article that is what I call awsom thank you again 🙏🙏🙏🙏👍🏥
May 9, 2022 at 8:42 am
“adherence to … a certain code”
That’s John 3:18 and that’s religion. Believe these things or burn in hell forever. There is no relationship with a mute, invisible, immaterial God who can’t perform miracles any more. Stop saying that arrogant lie. Christianity is a religion, not a relationship.
May 9, 2022 at 4:00 pm
Oron61,
Welcome, and thanks for partaking in the discussion. You are welcome to engage in discussion here as long as we can do so with mutual respect and kindness. This means we will agree to refrain from ad hominem attacks against people, limit our critique to the content of their arguments and not use inflammatory or derogatory statements. Calling someone “arrogant”, for example, clearly falls outside of constructive, good-willed dialog. I will certainly agree to treat you with this respect, and it will not depend on whether we end up agreeing or not.
With regards to the content of your counter argument to me, you said, “adherence to … a certain code”
That’s John 3:18 and that’s religion.” This is not the case. I was very careful in my selection of words in my definition for this reason. John 3:18 specifies a creed, not a code. There is a large difference between the meanings of these words. I even clearly described what I meant by using the word “code” by specifying I am talking about “a code of moral conduct” (that is a quote from my definition). A code of moral conduct is not what is described in John 3:18.
“Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.”
The key word here is believe. Yes, there is a CREED that one must have to be a Christian. It is certainly true that one must believe in Jesus Christ and His work of salvation in order to be a Christian; to be saved. I have never denied this. The difference I am highlighting here is that there is not the additional demand for a person to also adhere to a standard of moral conduct, duties, rituals and obligations in order to become a Christian. This fact is different from every other religious faith in the world! This is the very real difference that you are missing and not appreciating. The verse you mention (John 3:18) actually serves to highlight and support this difference I’m pointing out. Jesus does not say you need to believe and become righteous, or believe and do penance, or believe and perform rituals (or believe + anything else) to be saved. Just believe. This is not true of Mormonism, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism or any other religious faith. This is unique to Christianity.
Then you said, “There is no relationship with a mute, invisible, immaterial God who can’t perform miracles anymore.” On this, we are actually in full agreement! I don’t believe in that God, either. I don’t believe in this God you describe here. You’ve made a straw man of my God. This is not an accurate definition or description of the Trinitarian Yahweh described in the Bible and affirmed by Christian creeds. The Christian God is not mute. He has spoken to us though His word and through His prophets. He even entered our world as a man to speak directly to us and we have His very words recorded for us! He continues to speak to His followers all the time. I hear from Him frequently. He is not always invisible. In fact, He came as a physical person to this earth with flesh and blood. He is not immaterial. Jesus continues to possess a physical body and He will return, physically, one day. My God performs miracles all the time. I’ve witnessed many of them. He’s not a genie in a lamp who grants wishes on request. He is God. But, He does do miracles when He chooses. I wouldn’t be alive if this wasn’t true.
Essentially, your comment comes down to you saying you don’t believe that my God actually exists. That’s fine. You don’t have to. But, it isn’t fair falsely characterize the God I DO believe in. The fact that you don’t have a relationship with this God, and don’t hear Him speak, doesn’t mean no one else does. You can’t so easily dismiss their experiences. My testimony to you is that I do have such a relationship and I have heard from Him. You can choose to not believe me. But, that’s why He left us with the eyewitness testimony of Jesus’ life on earth. You can call me arrogant if you want and discount my testimony. But, you are still left with the separate but consistent testimony of the 9 eyewitnesses whose accounts are collected in the New Testament. In addition to these 9, there are 20 early Christian writers outside of New Testament writings. These additional 20 witnesses recorded what they saw in writings that are not included in the bible, but further support the testimony of the 9. In addition to these 29 eyewitness sources who were Christians, I can also add 9 sources that are distinctly non-Christian. These are Roman and Jewish writers and historians with no skin in the game in supporting a myth or perpetuating a false claim. Thus, you are pitting your personal convictions against the testimony of at least 38 separate eye-witnesses who were there and saw this God-man not be mute, invisible or immaterial, and who witnessed His miracles firsthand. Your “argument from silence” (you personally not having heard God speak or seen a miracle) doesn’t even come close to refuting the positive testimony of so many eyewitnesses, and countless numbers of us today who continue to experience this and testify to it.
I sincerely wish you the best and I hope and pray that you will entertain the possibility that your notion of who God is may not be accurate and may not be based on the preponderance of the available evidence and testimony as to what He is like.
Jake
May 13, 2022 at 5:05 pm
The problem with saying that belief is the only thing needed to be a Christian is, firstly, something spoken against by Jesus and James, and secondly makes Christian faith devoid of morality. If you have no code of conduct, you are then free to “go on sinning.” Secondly, this poor definition still requires Christianity to be a religion, as you can’t be a Christian and a Muslim at the same time. If Christianity weren’t a religion, you could be a Christian and a member of any world religion, or completely irreligious.
Tell me, is watching a movie proof that an actor is alive? Does listening to a recording give voice to the dead? Why should the writings of a dead prophet give life to his dead god? The revelation of God is complete in the same way a man’s life is complete. A legacy may remain, but will eternally fade because the man and the god are both dead. The dead don’t talk, even if you play recordings of their voices.
Most of these witnesses you mention are rejected by your own. You didn’t put them in your Bible, so you tacitly admit to not trusting them. You are left with two: Mark and John. Matthew is midrash on Mark, and Luke is a revision of the two.
There were also no hostile, or even neutral witnesses to the resurrection. No nearby historians saw him. Jesus never showed himself to anyone but his disciples afterwards. Talmud, which itself calls Jesus a sorceror, made no attempt to mention a staged resurrection and call it fraudulent, nor Josephus. No historians see Jesus except through the apostles. The abundant lack of eyewitness tesimony is a huge problem. You only have two narrative traditions in four traditional documents, 3 of which are anonymous! Celsus put it quite plainly: there are pagan miracles better attested than the resurrection. Do you disbelieve them without a thought as superstitious drivel? Or does me making the comparison force you to attribute it to demonic activity to fill in the gaps?
But the worst thing about eyewitnesses who are only from one side: Do you believe in aliens, despite never having seen UFOs yourself? Do you freely dismiss the myriad witnesses to extraterrestrial activity and victims of abduction? Why?
Mind you, I actually do believe in God, but certainly not the one described by an inerrant Bible. I actually think God is a god without the egotistic hellfire creedalist sex complex as described in your scriptures, and I search from NDE researchers and mystics for aligning patterns instead of putting all of my chips into a dead book that contradicts itself.
Your god doesn’t talk to you any more. Listen to recordings of him all you want. Your revelation is complete because your god’s lufe is complete.
May 19, 2022 at 7:42 pm
Oron61,
Thank you for the continued opportunity to dialog and for your generally civil and polite response. I apologize that it has taken me a while to respond. I’ve had a medical issue this week that prohibited me from doing so. I hope you will allow me to take each of the claims you made and provide a response. Even though you didn’t address each of the points I made to you directly, I will try to do so with you. I feel this is the best way to engage in robust dialog and debate. I believe failing to respond to valid arguments (and just introducing new ones) is unhelpful and displays a lack of a desire for honest, open-minded discussion. As a result, this response will be rather long (as you briefly brought up many points of contention).
You start off with this statement . . .
“The problem with saying that belief is the only thing needed to be a Christian is, firstly, something spoken against by Jesus and James, and secondly makes Christian faith devoid of morality. If you have no code of conduct, you are then free to “go on sinning.”
I’m afraid this statement just displays ignorance of the Christian faith. This argument is addressed and specifically refuted by the Apostle Paul in Romans chapters 5 and 6. Here are some excerpts. You can find the full text in the Bible.
In this passage, Paul doesn’t at all deny that we are saved as a free gift from God through faith alone. We are saved as sinners, enemies of God. God did not give the law to us for us to obey it and earn His favor. Rather, Paul says the law was given “so that all people could see how sinful they were”. It was to reveal our need for a salvation provided by God. It was to teach us we are totally unable (“utterly helpless”, as Paul says it) to achieve righteousness ourselves. Those of us with faith have been made right in the sight of God by Christ’s merit and death, not our own.
Paul understands and anticipates your very objection to his claim. If we are saved by grace and mercy alone, and not by obeying the law, why not just continue sinning? His answer is not that if we do so we somehow lose our salvation or stop being Christian. Rather, his argument is that it’s a category fallacy. If one has truly become a Christian one does not desire to keep sinning (1 John 3:6). These two things are antithetical. The very act of having faith in Christ that results in salvation changes a person. Whereas, before we were enslaved by sin we are now free. We are given supernatural power to resist and turn away from sin. Paul says elsewhere that God gives us new desires so that we no longer even want to sin (Rom 2:12-16, see also Ps 37:4). We obey because we are now doing what comes natural to our new nature, just as sinning came natural to our old nature. We obey (follow a moral code) out of love and a desire to please God, not out of duty, obligation, fear of punishment or in order to earn favor from God. We already have that favor due to what Jesus did on the cross on our behalf.
This is the key difference between Christianity and other religions. It’s about what God has done for us to make us right with Him, not what we must do ourselves to get right with Him. The “moral code”, if you will, for Christians comes AFTER you become one. It is a byproduct of a person becoming a Christian, not the cause. Also, this change is made in us by God. It is not even our own doing. The Holy Spirit comes to reside within believers giving us both the desire and the ability to obey God (Phil 2:13). God produces love in our hearts; love for God and love for others.
Thus, your objection is inaccurate and a misrepresentation of biblical Christianity. It’s not that there isn’t a moral code in Christianity. It’s that obedience to this code is not a condition for anything, and that both the desire and ability to obey it is supplied by God, Himself, not us. This is drastically different from any other religion.
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You said, “If Christianity weren’t a religion, you could be a Christian and a member of any world religion, or completely irreligious.”
All you’re doing here is using the word “religion” in a different way than I am. Here you are using this word to mean an organized system of beliefs centered on a deity (or something along those lines). That’s fine. The word can be (and often is) used in that manner. By your use, Christianity would certainly qualify. I am not arguing against that use of the word. Rather, I am attempting to highlight that there is a commonality between all other faiths that is utterly missing from Christianity. I personally don’t care if you call Christianity a religion. That’s not my purpose here. Rather, I am just wanting to point to how Christianity is totally unique and stands apart from all the rest in a major, substantive, foundational and definitional way. It is in its own category. It stands alone as the only non-performance, non-merit driven faith! I want to talk about this difference.
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You then asked, “Tell me, is watching a movie proof that an actor is alive? Does listening to a recording give voice to the dead? Why should the writings of a dead prophet give life to his dead god? The revelation of God is complete in the same way a man’s life is complete. A legacy may remain, but will eternally fade because the man and the god are both dead. The dead don’t talk, even if you play recordings of their voices.”
Here, you are simply begging the question. You are committing the logical fallacy of circular argumentation. Essentially, you are saying Jesus is not God and can’t talk today because he is dead. He must be dead (despite the claims of the Bible) because he wasn’t God. You are first assuming the claims of the Bible about Jesus’ resurrection are false, and then you’re using the supposed death of Jesus to argue he isn’t a living God, only a man. That’s an invalid argument. In order to fairly and objectively evaluate whether Jesus is really alive or dead, you first have to allow the claims of Jesus in the Bible to stand and be evaluated. You can’t just dismiss them offhand and then use this dismissal as your basis for demonstrating Jesus is dead. I mean you can, it just is an invalid form of argumentation and makes no substantive critique on the claims of the biblical authors.
While I agree with you, in principle, that the dead don’t talk, the very point of disagreement here is that the Bible claims Jesus isn’t dead! That’s kind of the point here. Now, you can deny this is true. But, that doesn’t change that this is indeed the claim of the eyewitnesses. You have not demonstrated yet that the eyewitnesses aren’t to be believed and that we should assume Jesus is dead. No, a movie doesn’t prove an actor is alive. But, eyewitness testimony that he is has to be analyzed and accepted as legitimate evidence.
Last night I watched a movie starring Will Farrell. No, the movie doesn’t prove he’s alive as it was made several years ago. If that’s all I have to go on, I wouldn’t be able to say he was. But, I can also read an interview he gave to a journalist yesterday. The statement from this person (and others who have personally witnessed Will alive) should carry a lot of weight with me, I would think. In a court of law, for example, a jury is not allowed to arbitrarily dismiss the testimony of an eyewitness unless they have some reason to suspect the person is lying. This reason must be more than that they simply don’t think the event really occurred. They have to see clear evidence that the witness has motivation to mislead the jury or that their character or competency is somehow shown to be deficient. What reasons do we have to dismiss the testimony of the biblical authors?
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Then you said, “Most of these witnesses you mention are rejected by your own. You didn’t put them in your Bible, so you tacitly admit to not trusting them.”
This is another misunderstanding that I can hopefully clear up. Your assumption that, just because a witness account isn’t in the Bible that means Christians tacitly believe it is a false account, is not true. There are lots of true things that Christians don’t believe belong in the Bible. The only content included in the Bible is that which Christians believe is of DIVINE origin. That is, it was communicated to the writer directly by God, or that God, the Holy Spirit, empowered the human author to write the words He wanted to communicate. Christians accept and believe lots of extra-biblical human testimony about Jesus (and history, in general) is true. We accept the testimony of those who were there as to what they saw (Romans, Jews, enemies of Jesus and historians, etc.). I accept testimony that the Holocaust happened as true. I don’t need for it to be in the Bible in order to believe it is accurate. As I said before, you can’t objectively reject eyewitness testimony (regardless of the source) without a valid reason to do so.
However, just because we believe they accurately recorded what they witnessed, this doesn’t mean they necessarily belong in Scripture. This is reserved for those who were closest to Jesus, who were endorsed and commissioned by Him to record His words and deeds; those who HE appointed as Apostles (Literally messengers sent with authority). God selected those who He wanted to record these events in order, not just to establish the events as true, but also to attach the theological meaning to them that He intends. Omitting these extra-biblical accounts from scripture is in NO WAY stating they are false or untrustworthy. That’s a false assumption on your part.
Regardless, the question remains…why do YOU assume they are false? Your assumption that I do is misplaced. What other reason do you have for rejecting them? Did they have some motive for lying? What did they gain from it? Let’s consider that.
How do we know they didn’t just make it all up? What about the liar, liar, pants on fire theory? After all, didn’t they become famous, powerful, and respected people because of their wild claims? Hardly. In fact all of Jesus’ disciples were killed for what they claimed. It was so unpopular in the Jewish religious and Roman controlled world that it got them whipped, beaten, stoned, thrown in prison, executed, boiled alive, and even crucified. Yeah, sign me up. These were the eyewitnesses to these events. It is clear they firmly believed them to be true and even worth dying for. One is only willing to die for something they really believe is true. Devout radical Muslims are willing to die for Allah because they earnestly believe the Quran to be true. You can be sincere and also be wrong. However, these men walked and lived with Jesus. They were there at His crucifixion and saw Him resurrected. They have no motive to claim these things even to death if they weren’t true. This theory just doesn’t track.
It is interesting that the founders of other religions received great status and power from their claims. Joseph Smith (the founder of Mormonism) was attempting to set himself up as a mini King and was running for president of the United States when he was killed. Mohammad became a powerful and influential military leader and died while on a military campaign. The Christian’s lost their jobs, were tortured, imprisoned, ostracized from society, crucified and fed to lions . . . all while refusing to retract the claim that Jesus was alive. For example, Josephus (a non-Christian, Jewish historian) wrote in Antiquities of the Jews that James (an Apostle and the half-brother of Jesus) was stoned to death by Albinus the procurator as a result of his testimony about Jesus.
So we are talking about generally upstanding people, who are known for honesty, truthfulness and kindness who have no motive to lie about what they saw. Indeed, secular historians have said that Luke, for example, is one of the most accurate and reliable historians of the time. The gospel writers prove their honesty by confessing many embarrassing and self-condemning things. This is a good test that if the people are actually recording what really happened or if they are making it up. Historians find many convincing examples of “embarrassing testimony” in the New Testament. Here are just a few of the numerous examples:
Peter’s denial of Jesus.
The disciples’ frequent blunders, bickering, selfishness, doubt, stupidity and their abandonment of Jesus at His crucifixion.
Thomas doubting the resurrection
The fact that Jesus’ own family at one point doubted him and tried to stop His ministry
Many difficult, unpopular and embarrassing statements of Jesus, such as his claim to be the only way to God, his call to hate your mother and brother if you are to follow him, or his call to eat his flesh and drink his blood.
Their accounts don’t read like someone who’s making up events. No one would make themselves look this way or testify to these hard sayings unless they really happened and they were just being faithful to what occurred.
Another point of attestation to their honesty is the fact that it was women who first discovered the empty tomb while the men were off pouting, sulking and hiding. Today that doesn’t seem like a big deal, but it was huge in the culture of the time. Women had no rights at all. This is the same culture today in some places in the Middle East. Women can’t drive, go to school. It was so extreme then that first century Jewish women couldn’t testify in court. Their testimony was considered worthless. If the disciples really made this up, why would they pick the what the public considered were the most unreliable and irrelevant witnesses in their culture?
Then you have the fact that it would never have even occurred to a first century Jew to perpetuate a myth that the Messiah died and was resurrected. It is completely out of place to suppose that first century Jews intended to hoax or lie about Jesus’ resurrection. This views the disciples’ situation through the rearview mirror of Christian history rather than through the eyes of a first century Jew.
In the first place, there was no expectation in Judaism of a Messiah who, instead of establishing David’s throne and subduing Israel’s enemies, would be shamefully executed by the Gentiles as a criminal. Moreover, the Jewish idea of resurrection was just unconnected with the idea of Messiah and even incompatible with it, since Messiah was not supposed to be killed. As N.T. Wright puts it, “if you’re a first century Jew, and your favorite Messiah got himself crucified, then you’ve basically got two choices: either you go home or else you get yourself a new Messiah.”
Secondly, the Jewish conception of resurrection of the dead differed in at least two fundamental respects from the resurrection of Jesus. First, in Jewish thinking the resurrection to glory and immortality always occurred after the end of the world. Jews had no idea of a resurrection within history. Thus, given the Jewish conception of the resurrection, the disciples after Jesus’ crucifixion would not have come up with the strange idea that he had been already raised. They would in all probability have looked forward to the resurrection at the last day and, in keeping with Jewish custom, perhaps preserved his tomb as a shrine where his bones could rest until the resurrection.
Second, in Jewish thinking the resurrection was always the resurrection of all the righteous dead. Jews had no idea of the resurrection of an isolated individual apart from the general resurrection. That’s why we find no examples of other failed messianic movements claiming that their executed leader was risen from the dead. Wright says, “All the followers of those first century messianic movements were fanatically committed to the cause. . . . But in no case right across the century before Jesus and the century after him do we hear of any Jewish group saying that their executed leader had been raised from the dead, and he really was the Messiah after all.”
There is simply no objective or legitimate reason to call the testimony of these numerous witness into question, and plenty of evidence that suggest they are faithful to record what actually occurred. On what basis do you reject their testimony? What other competing testimony can you provide that is more reliable? In a court of law, this is more than enough evidence to find a verdict.
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You falsely said, “You are left with two [witnesses]: Mark and John. Matthew is midrash on Mark, and Luke is a revision of the two.” This is an overtly false statement. No secular or Christian biblical scholar would agree with your counting here. In fact, (as I already stated) there are 9 separate written testimonies that Jesus was alive:
Matthew
Mark
Luke
John
Peter
James
Paul
Jude
The author of Hebrews
All of these men have recorded in their individual, separate writings that they witnessed the resurrected Jesus (or were in direct contact with those who had). Yes, some of the narrative from Mark is repeated in other accounts with minor variations. But this doesn’t deny that those men were agreeing and testifying that this was indeed what they saw. This fact doesn’t undermine their testimony, at all. Even if it did, you have John which is completely original from the others. And then you have all of the writings of Paul, James, Peter, Jude and the rest. These are just the witnesses whose individual accounts were chosen to be included in the Bible. As I’ve already said, there are many others.
The question to you, is how many is enough? How many people need to testify in a court of law that something occurred (with no counter testimony) for it to be deemed true? The answer, legally, is one. Here you have 9 who are in complete agreement. They have no motivation to lie. In fact, they would have strong motivation to not claim this was true! You have to deal with this testimony. You can’t just ignore it and think you’ve been fair or objective here.
In addition to this testimony, you have the fact that countless people saw the miracles. We know this is true from hostile and neutral historical accounts (e.g. Josephus, Tacitus and even your reference in the Talmud). The disciples were claiming these things during the lifetime of people who remember what happened. Jesus’ ministry didn’t occur in a vacuum. Everyone knew about it and saw it. Christianity wouldn’t have been able to spread so quickly in Jerusalem if it didn’t track with what people had seen and experienced. If the disciples were making the story up, it would have been easy to refute. All it would take is to ask one of the purported eyewitnesses to the resurrected Jesus (many of which were listed in the Bible by name) and he’d tell you, “Those guys are full of it, I never saw that!”
If I tried to start a rumor today that there was this guy in my city who had risen from the dead, no one would listen because there are no witnesses to it. It would be easy to refute my wild story. They’d call me a lunatic and that’d be that. Also, if someone held a gun to my head and asked me if I still believed it, I’d back down because a lie isn’t really worth dying for. Any possible gain I could get out of the lie would be over when the trigger was pulled.
It’s unimaginable that a belief in an empty tomb and a risen Messiah could gain any traction in the city where he was publicly executed and his body was buried, if the tomb wasn’t really empty. There’s no justification for why anyone would believe it. At the end of Jesus’ life, history records that there were 120 people who were avid followers of Him, who claimed He had risen from the dead, and they had seen Him. In one day this expanded to 3000 as the church exploded in the city of Jerusalem, the city that had seen His miracles and watched His death. This just couldn’t happen if there was no truth to it. The question is which theory regarding the resurrection has the greatest explanatory power to provide a sufficient cause for the growth of this movement within Jerusalem. No one has been able to provide another theory that even comes close to providing reasonable explanatory power for this.
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“You only have two narrative traditions in four traditional documents, 3 of which are anonymous!”
The gospel of John say that it as written by John. It is true that three of the gospels don’t overtly name their author. But, this doesn’t mean we can’t have good certainty about who wrote them. We know Paul’s traveling companion and physician Luke wrote both the Gospel of Luke and Acts from both external and internal attestation. Church tradition supporting Luke as the author is both early (from the mid-2nd century) and unanimous (it was never doubted until the 19th century). The “we” sections of Acts (16:10–17; 20:5–21:18; 27:1–28:16) assume that the author was a companion of Paul and participated in the events described in those sections. Thus, the author of Acts was one of Paul’s companions listed in his letters written during those periods (Luke is listed in Col. 4:14; 2 Tim. 4:11; Philem. 24) and not one of those referred to in the third person in the “we” sections (cf. Acts 20:4–5).
With regard to the book of Mark, widespread evidence from the early church fathers affirms that Peter passed on reports of the words and deeds of Jesus to his attendant and writer, John Mark. Of particular significance in this regard are the brief statements by Papias (Bishop of Hierapolis; c. a.d. 120), preserved by Eusebius of Caesarea (260–340). Papias states that he received oral tradition from John the elder and apostle, and he passes on the following regarding Mark: (1) he was the writer for Peter; (2) he wrote down accurately as much as he could remember of Peter’s words, which the latter had adapted to the needs of the moment; (3) he was not an eyewitness of Jesus, nor a disciple (but see note on Mark 14:52); and (4) it was his desire not to omit or misrepresent anything. Papias concluded that the Gospel of Mark gains its apostolic and reliable character from its Petrine origin (Eusebius, Ecclesiastical History 2.15.1–2; 3.39.14–16).
Internal evidence also supports the Patristic testimony that Peter stands behind Mark’s Gospel. Mark’s account is especially vivid when recounting incidents involving Peter. It presents the weaknesses of Peter, as well as the disciples as a whole, and omits praiseworthy or noticeable references to Peter reported in Matthew and Luke. It has also been observed that there exists a certain structural proximity between Peter’s Caesarea speech (Acts 10:34–43) and the Gospel of Mark. Additionally, the gospel of Mark was written with 16 years of the death of Jesus, while all of the disciples were still alive and could validate and testify to its validity. They circulated the report as having been written by Mark from the very beginning. There is no reason to suspect this isn’t true.
I have already discussed the authorship of Matthew in an earlier comment here (see comment 219, point number 12). So I don’t feel the need to do it again.
As a general comment about this type of argument (questioning the traditional authorship for the gospels) there are a couple of points that are important to consider. The books are all attributed to the traditional authors by the earliest church fathers we have writings of. Because these early church leaders had either direct or indirect contact with the apostolic community, they would have been very familiar with the Gospels’ origins. Moreover, no competing traditions now exist (if they ever did) attributing the gospels to any other author. If Matthew, Mark and Luke did not write these books, it is hard to see why the false ascription would bear the name of relatively obscure apostles and missionaries when more well-known and popular figures could have been chosen (e.g. Philip, Peter, Thomas, or James).
There is simply a massive and robust manuscript evidence that authenticates the genuineness of the gospels and the NT as a whole. In comparison with the average Greek author, we have roughly a thousand times as many NT copies. As Komoszewski, Sawyer, and Wallace note, “If the average-sized manuscript were two and one half inches thick, all the copies of the works of an average Greek author would stack up four feet high, while the copies of the NT would stack up to over a mile high! Indeed, two eminent NT skeptical, non-Christian textual critics even stated that in contrast to the Greco-Roman literature, the “textual critic of the New Testament is embarrassed by the wealth of material.” (Bruce Metzger and Bart Ehrman). In fact, the entire NT (except eleven minor verses) can be reconstructed outside the Bible from the writings and quotations of the early church leaders in the second and third centuries AD. Renowned Bible scholar F.F. Bruce declares: “There is no body of ancient literature in the world which enjoys such a wealth of good textual attestation as the New Testament.”
I don’t have time to go into how massive the bibliographical evidence is for the veracity of the NT. Instead I will link to this good article on the subject: https://www.evidenceunseen.com/theology/scripture/historicity-of-the-nt/1-bibliographical-test/
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You said, “No historians see Jesus except through the apostles. The abundant lack of eyewitness tesimony is a huge problem.”
Well, as I’ve already said, there actually is a lot of extra-biblical testimony. More on that in a moment.
But, the more important question here is why would historians not want to learn of Jesus from the apostles? Why are the apostles not good witnesses? You haven’t shown why their testimony shouldn’t be trusted. I have shown that it should. They have no reason to be casually and arbitrary dismissed. Your problem here is that you aren’t treating the apostles as the most relevant eyewitness (which they are). You are treating them, a priori, as suspect merely because they testify to what you don’t personally believe is true. That is not proper historical methodology. The testimony of the New Testament authors isn’t suspect because it is in the New Testament. That’s backwards. Their testimony wasn’t originally collected in a volume called the NT. They were just individual eyewitness accounts circulating at the time. They were collected together and placed in the NT precisely because they were the best and most credible accounts! These are from the people with the most firsthand access to Jesus, who were there are all the major events of His life, who listened daily to His teaching, who watched Him perform His miracles, and who He spent tons of time with after His resurrection and who were willing to suffer and die for their claims. Why would we want to accept testimony from inferior witnesses, with less exposure to these events, with less interaction with Jesus and who were not persecuted for their claims? You are thinking of the Bible as merely a religious book. But, with regards to the Gospels and Acts, it is truthfully a collection of the best and most relevant eyewitness testimonies as to what happened.
You mention what historians do. It is important, here, to point out the fact that historians almost unanimously acknowledge that the apostles and NT authors thought they saw Jesus, and they thought so to such a degree that they were willing to suffer martyrdom for the truthfulness of their testimony. Not even the harshest, skeptic, non-Christian NT scholars and historians argue that the disciples were lying or trying to invent a myth of the resurrection. Not even Bart Ehrman or Gerd Ludemann (Prominent skeptic historians) can intellectually hold that position. There is just no explanatory power and too much contradiction with the known facts to conclude they were. So, what you are left with is saying the disciples were somehow mistaken, that they somehow all thought they saw Jesus when they really didn’t (for various assorted reasons). This theory has a plethora of its own problems (as should be readily apparent). But, regardless, what historians don’t (and can’t legitimately) do is simply disregard their testimony because they believed in the resurrection (and their accounts were later collected into the Bible). Historians take the testimony of the NT authors seriously. There is simply no legitimate reason not to. It’s irrational.
Your comment is special pleading. You are expecting more out of testimony for Jesus than you do for any other event. In other areas you don’t throw out the best, most qualified witnesses simply because you don’t like their observations. The fact is, there is more and better testimony for Jesus’s life than there is for ANY other first century historical figure (and he was just a modest carpenter and teacher, not a political or military leader). That is just a fact. Even if you don’t consider the biblical authors (a mistake as I’ve shown), there are as many non-Christian sources who mention Jesus (within 150 years of his life) as there are sources who talk about roman emperor at the time (Tiberius Caesar)! Here is a list:
Josephus (Jewish historian)
Tacitus (considered the most accurate Roman historian)
Pliny the Younger (Roman Politician)
Phlegon (freed slave)
Lucian (Greek satirist)
Celsus (Roman philosopher)
Mara bar Serapion (prisoner awaiting execution)
Seutonius
Thallus
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You said, “There were also no hostile, or even neutral witnesses to the resurrection. No nearby historians saw him. Jesus never showed himself to anyone but his disciples afterwards.”
Apart from simply being a false statement, in general, this one is particularly biased and ill-thought out. I’ll address the factual incorrectness in a moment. First, let’s take the claim at face value. “Jesus never showed himself to anyone but his disciples afterwards.” While, in one sense, you can say that is true, it isn’t at all a meaningful statement, since if one saw Jesus alive after He had been publicly executed, one would be hard pressed to not then become a follower of Jesus! It would be hard to conceive how a “hostile” (or even neutral) witness to Jesus’ resurrection could possibly exist after seeing Him. That’s like searching for Holocaust sceptics among Holocaust survivors. It’s hardly surprising one would be hard to find. You are wanting the testimony from someone who saw Jesus in His glorified, resurrected state and still didn’t believe in Him? Even if such a person could exist, I’m not sure what would make that person more credible than one who became convinced that Jesus was indeed the risen Lord after they personally witnessed Him alive. The historical accounts are filled with testimony of the latter.
If you want to know what the Holocaust was like, the best people to talk to are people who experienced it. The Holocaust would be no less real or legitimately testified to if there were no Germans who testified about it, if it was only Holocaust survivors that testified about it. Who would question the testimony of the people who actually experienced it? By the same token, why would you question the testimony of the disciples? They were the ones who experienced the risen Christ.
Additionally, the statement isn’t even true. Saul of Tarsus (later called Paul) was a self-attesting (and his testimony was verified by many others) ENEMY of Christianity before he witnessed the resurrected Christ. He was on a campaign persecuting, imprisoning and even killing Christians (as testified by his own account and that of Luke, Peter and John).
In addition to Paul you have James, the half-brother of Jesus. James did not believe that Jesus was the Messiah prior to His death and resurrection. In fact, he was antagonistic towards Jesus. However, the eyewitnesses record than after the resurrection he became a devout believer and follower. Josephus (a Jewish historian) even records he was martyred for his testimony about Jesus. Jude (another of Jesus’ half-brothers) is another example of a non-believer who was convinced by seeing the risen Christ. Thomas was a skeptic who doubted the resurrection until he saw the risen Lord.
All you can do here is say you simply don’t believe Paul, Thomas, James and Jude’s testimony (and Luke’s and Ananias’, and John’s, and Peter’s, etc.). But, you CAN’T legitimately say there weren’t hostile witnesses. You can say you don’t believe them, I guess, but there is no debate that hostile witnesses have given their testimony.
In addition to these hostile witnesses, there is some third party (neutral) testimony that these events occurred from non-Christian sources. For example, there is Josephus who was a first century Jewish historian who wrote about the events that occurred during his lifetime and particularly about the destruction of the temple by the Romans in 70 AD. He was a Jew both nationally and religiously and didn’t believe the teachings of Jesus. Josephus is particularly relevant to get a non-biased account of the life of Jesus. Then there is the Roman historian, Tacitus, who mentions the origins of Christianity while describing how the emperor, Nero, blamed them for the fire that burned Rome. Tacitus was also writing shortly: after the death of Jesus. From these two accounts, alone, we can determine the following facts about Jesus from strictly non-Christian (neutral and even hostile) sources
Jesus was a real historical person
He was a wise teacher who did miraculous (wondrous) works
He drew over to him both Jews and many of the Gentiles.
He was considered to be the Messiah
He was condemned by Pilate and crucified on a cross
He appeared to his followers alive again the third day, as the Jewish prophets had foretold
The tribe of Christians named after him grew and flourished
That these Christians were seen as abominations and were tortured and killed for their faith
That these Christians plead guilty to their “crimes”.
That the faith had spread from Judah to Rome
That mockery of every sort was added to their deaths. They were covered with the skins of beasts, they were torn by dogs and perished, or were nailed to crosses and burnt alive to serve as a nightly illumination.
Everything claimed by these hostile witnesses confirms the accounts given in the Bible. Yes, it is true that Josephus and Tacitus never personally saw Jesus. But, they were faithful, non-partial historians with a wide breadth of knowledge of what was going on during their time. They had a far better idea as to what events were truly happening then than we can 2000 years removed. Why would we question their testimony to what they believed were the historical facts? What contrary testimony is there to consider?
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“Talmud, which itself calls Jesus a sorceror, made no attempt to mention a staged resurrection and call it fraudulent, nor Josephus.”
No, the Talmud doesn’t mention the resurrection . . . because they are hoping it would be forgotten. The gospels testify that they were trying to sweep it under the rug and limit the impact of the empty tomb. What motivation would there be for them to record this? It would only draw more attention to the fact that the tomb was indeed empty. So, it’s hardly surprising (actually expected) that they don’t mention that detail.
The very fact that the Jewish Talmud would mention Jesus and agree that He worked miracles should be very enlightening and eye-opening. Of course, Jesus’ enemies, the Pharisees, didn’t attribute Jesus’ power to God. They can’t accept that because they murdered Him for claiming to represent God. But, they can’t deny His power. Thus, it must be “sorcery”. Since I imagine you don’t believe in magic, this means you also don’t accept their explanation as to what the source of Jesus’ power was, I assume. Then this leaves you with the uncomfortable reality that Jesus did really exist and did work amazing miracles no one (not even his enemies) could deny or explain. What explanation can you provide and how is your explanation better supported by the evidence than the one given by Jesus, Himself (and testified to by the disciples)?
You are wrong to include Josephus here. Josephus actually does mention the resurrection, and he does so in a factual way, stating that it did occur.
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You also said the Bible is, “a dead book that contradicts itself.”
This is a claim that demands substantiation. It’s poor form to make a claim like this without demonstrating that it is true. How and where does the Bible contradict itself? I have read the Bible cover to cover many times and I have never encountered a single supposed contradiction which cannot be reconciled with proper biblical systematic theology. As it is, your point is not established.
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“Celsus put it quite plainly: there are pagan miracles better attested than the resurrection. Do you disbelieve them without a thought as superstitious drivel?”
The very fact that you quote Celsus shows you haven’t investigated the actual evidence here, yourself. This is because Celsus was thoroughly refuted by Origen in his work “Against Celsus” in 248 AD. Today, Celsus is regarded by virtually all historians and scholars as unreliable, unobjective, biased and antagonistic. His arguments are not seen as substantive today, based on the evidence we have. He makes outlandish claims (like the one you mention) but then provides absolutely no evidence to support it. If it is really true that there are pagan miracles that are better attested to, what are they? Where is this evidence? He provides none of this. Celsus taunts the early Christian movement yet without providing credible eyewitnesses. Celsus’ anti-resurrection argument utilized counter-theories, plausible ways to explain away the miracle. For instance, Celsus suggests that Jesus’ post-mortem appearances may have been due to day-dreaming or hallucinations produced by “wishful thinking.” Yet, these ideas have been rejected by scholars, as they do not at all explain the known facts surrounding the resurrection. Celsus’ theory lacks substantial explanatory power for the known facts and the results of the resurrection.
Celsus charges that Jesus’ resurrection was just a poor copy of the “fantastic tales” of pagan heroes having descended to Hades and returned. This idea has been completely abandoned by modern historians and scholars precisely for the reasons I’ve already detailed about how a physical resurrection from the dead of a Messiah was a completely foreign and hostile idea to first century Jews. Additionally, unlike those pagan tales, Jesus dies publicly so that no one can claim “that although he appeared to die, he did not really do so, but, when he wanted to, again reappeared and told the portentous tale that he had risen from the dead.” The resurrection is not analogous to pagan mythology precisely because Jesus’ genuine death was confirmed publicly. I have already discussed this argument in detail here on this page so I won’t do so again. If you’d like to read what I wrote about it, you can in Comment #76 above.
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“Do you believe in aliens, despite never having seen UFOs yourself? Do you freely dismiss the myriad witnesses to extraterrestrial activity and victims of abduction? Why?”
Well, the fact is I have personally seen a UFO, so this is not going to be a very favorable analogy for you. No, I do not arbitrarily dismiss the testimony of thousands of competent, rational and qualified people that claim they have seen a UFO. We must take their testimony seriously, as many have no reason to lie and their sightings are independently confirmed and verified by others. This doesn’t mean I necessarily believe aliens are the cause of them, though. UFO means the object is “unidentified”, not that it is identified to be an alien spacecraft. That’s a huge leap. I do have my own working theory about what is going on here, but going into that is not relevant here. Regardless, the point is that eye-witness testimony must be treated as credible unless a reason can be shown for why it isn’t. That reason can’t be, because you think it’s untrue.
To believe that the UFO and abduction phenomenon is some kind of mass delusion or that thousands upon thousands of people are intentionally lying about it for no gain and only ridicule is a more preposterous theory than that there is something actually being observed here. This is as ridiculous as holding that a bunch of first century Jews perpetuated a myth that their dead teacher rose again and convinced virtually the entire populace of the town (and eventually most of the known world) he was killed in that he was indeed alive, all while he was still buried in the tomb; and then were willing to suffer and be killed to maintain this lie, for no gain or benefit to themselves.
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“Your god doesn’t talk to you any more.”
You cannot say whether God talks to me or not. You have absolutely no way of knowing that. Do you think I’m lying to you when I say that he does? There are countless people who experience God speaking to them today. But, I guess we are all crazy since you are here to tell us what we experience. All you can say is that God doesn’t talk to you.
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“Your revelation is complete because your god’s lufe is complete.”
That statement doesn’t even make sense. If his life is complete (as in he is not alive) then he wouldn’t be God, by definition. God’s life cannot end. That’s part of what it means to be God: all powerful, immutable, eternal. This is nothing more than saying you don’t believe Jesus is God. That much I already know. But, you need to stop telling me what God I believe in. MY God’s not dead. MY God, Yahweh, is eternal. He has no beginning or end. All you can say is that you don’t believe in my God. But, you don’t get to tell me what the God I believe in is like.
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“I actually do believe in God, but certainly not the one described by an inerrant Bible. I actually think God is a god without the egotistic hellfire creedalist sex complex as described in your scriptures, and I search from NDE researchers and mystics for aligning patterns . . .”
This is an interesting admission. I find it intriguing that you believe in a god that doesn’t meet any of the criteria for evidence or proof that you are demanding here of Christianity! You are perfectly willing to accept the reality of this god you’ve constructed on your own, by gleaning bits from here and there and piecing it together yourself. And you call my view “egotistic”! At least I don’t think I, alone, have somehow stumbled on the true God without any divine revelation or evidence. What’s egotistical is believing that the god you conjured up in your own mind, that conforms to your personal ideas and desires about how a deity should be, is somehow the only historical true God and that everyone else in history is wrong. You dismiss robust, reliable and repeated eyewitness testimony, hundreds of fulfilled prophecies, and mounds of historical evidence for the reality of Jesus as God because it isn’t enough (or good enough) evidence for you . . . while you accept your own construction of god, demanding none of this same evidence. This reveals your unobjectivity. It’s Special Pleading to the highest degree.
I encourage you to step back and look at this objectively. What evidence can you produce for the god you believe in? Does it stand up to the same kind of critique and investigation you are holding Christianity to? Are you really open and willing to follow the evidence for who God is where it leads? Or, are you determining at the onset that the Christian God is unacceptable due what you call a, “hellfire creedalist sex complex”? Be honest with yourself. If it is the latter, then you are not basing your assessment on evidence but on your emotion and desires.
God bless,
Jake
November 6, 2022 at 3:08 pm
The thought that conversion leads to (what you are describing to be essentially) impeccability could lead to a very severe question of who is a True Scotsman. Have you sinned at any point after your conversion? If so, why aren’t you afraid of the fact that you’re headed straight to hell, being a sinner? In fact, 1 John 1:8 would then agree with Nitzsche’s assessment that Jesus was the only true Christian in history.
It could also mean that God is absent from the vast majority of all churches everywhere.
It could also mean that many Christians sin, not desiring to because of their new natures, but are being forced to sin and to like it by something more powerful than the Holy Spirit, perhaps the Flesh that God put us in.
The general makeup of Christendom, if regeneration led to impeccability, is either so small as to not actually exist, or is being puppetted by the devil to somehow sin, enjoy sinning, yet somehow, unawares, not desire it.
The fact is, though, Christians sin. A lot. Therefore there are no real Christians, or God has no power. One dichotomy leads to another. The only other option would be that Christians don’t sin because what would otherwise be a sin is no longer a sin because they are Christians, and nothing they do is a sin.
What regeneration really ends up being is a cause with no effect. It’s an unfalsifiable hypothesis. You have to make an enormous number of assumptions interpereting the Bible this way. The necessary corollary to Once saved Always saved, is Not saved Never saved. That’s the only way you can cover your tail when a minister’s stash of CP is found just before his estate sale. You just have to retroactively change the assumption cf. John 3:18. You don’t need any evidence: just say that the effect is the cause and vice-versa.
I am not denying the resurrection as much as I am saying that the christian god is effectively dead because he is mute, ascended or not. Your god can’t talk because that would mean your scriptures aren’t perfect. When I said “dead prophet,” I meant John at Patmos, with whom your god either died, or is idling by like Baal was before his priests.
Alright then: Name me a few things about Jesus’ biography and a few more spiritual facts of significance that all major denominations of Christianity unquestioningly believe and preach, but which are not even hinted at by scripture nor science.
Sola Scriptura means that there is no authoritative anything of anyone of any kind on anything spiritual outside of your personal interpretation of scripture. This is why you have 3000 denominations and countless non-denoms instead of a united body like your own scriptures tell you to have. Your holy spirit can’t unite you because he’s been muted by the Bible’s back cover as well.
You accept the Holocaust as true because we have photographic evidence, paper trails, and physical artifacts, with thousands upon thousands of human testimonial accounts across a wide array of locations from numerous parties, some of which were within a knife’s edge of fighting each other after finishing off their mutual enemy. If the resurrection had such things, you’d all be keeping them in an appendix at the back of your Bibles, and willing to preach from them when making exposition on the more narrow canon.
I am not necessarily saying that the disciples were lying intentionally, or lying at all. The desire for there to be a resurrection, the great consternation of the events leading to the war and the end of the Age in 65-70 AD, and Jesus’ personality are more than capable of leading those men to die for their hopes, true or false, apparition or none. I am not questioning the disciple’s sincerity, but their actual existence, number, corpus of works, and most of all, the honesty of their followers. They certainly well could have believed a lie. Being told for three years about resurrection will lead you into believing it, whether or not what they actually saw was a real reurrection. Repetition is convincing. That’s why stupid women on twitter write whatever große Lüge about transsexuality is in vogue right now, in repeated lines with hand-clap emojis between each word. It worked on them, and those who listen to them.
This messiah was a messiah of the resurrection. Everyone with a brain knew that the days of Judas Maccabee and John Hyrcanus were long gone. The only kingdom of God left to establish had to reside in the immaterial realm, away from the evils of the empire, not a conventional hylic-psychic realm, but a pneumatic realm. This messiah’s “kingdom is not of this world,” and he let everyone know it through many parables.
Yes, there have been resurrections in Jewish history. A boy’s body was dropped into a grave when a war-zone encroached; his body brushed against Elisha’s bones and he came back from the dead. As for the righteous dead, that base is covered by Paul taking the Psalms and twisting them out of context. “There is none righteous, no not one!” Since Jesus is the only righteous dead since Paul’s made God’s law impossible to follow and only capable of damning (Galatians 3), now Jesus the only one to be risen. In a court of law, such circumstantial evidence is not beyond a reasonable doubt. Paul has to move the goalposts to fit it all into his system of “join my church or burn in hell.”
“It would be hard to conceive how a “hostile” (or even neutral) witness to Jesus’ resurrection could possibly exist after seeing Him.”
So was it just out of malice that Jesus decided not to show himself to the whole city, the sanhedrin, the army, and save everyone in Jerusalem from the war and the coming wrath? He knew what would happen in 70. What card is there to be played about this oversight but Romans 9?
Saul of Tarsus was overwhelmed by a vision from the clouds in a story he couldn’t keep straight. He never saw Jesus’ resurrected person on earth in the flesh. Saul ben Qish saw Samuel and spoke to him through witchcraft. That’s much different from seeing a resurrected Samuel. Both Jesus and Samuel were on the other side, and not coming back. Both were effectively dead (Jesus having taken his body with him, Samuel having not.) and both could talk.
“This doesn’t mean I necessarily believe aliens are the cause of them, though.”
Right, so those who have been abducted, who repeatedly make similar descriptions of their captors and the things that are done to them, which all end up lining up into a pattern, is a huge leap from simple problematic objects in the sky. Of course it is. That doesn’t, however, mean that those who claim to have been abducted are lying any more than the disciples were.
Just in the same way is the battle of Los Angeles in 1942 enough testimony to know that there was something in the sky that night and it was intercepted as a threat by the military. It’s just as plausible as any other explanation which would have become the official story if those two weather balloons weren’t found. Those gunners weren’t shooting at nothing, were they?
Why are you suddenly saying that the God I believe in is of purely my own construction? I actually believe most of the Bible because when written, it lined up with the things that real and living witnesses to the other side are saying now. However, those who study the Bible more diligently than either of us, who know how to interperet it, who know what it says, make it say things that are horribly misaligned with not just the natural conscience, but contemporary witnesses who aren’t filtered by decades of down-time between memory and the pen. This is why I don’t believe it to be inerrant, inspired, or comprehensive. Having miles of physical documents does not make the copy on top better than the copy on the bottom. It just says that the document was copied a lot.
The reason I place so much burden on you and your scriptures, is that Christendom is a very dualistic religion. The smallest sin is damning for your paragidms. The slightest moral lapse warrants being tortured in hell forever, as per the vast majority of your spiritually-guided readers of scripture. Likewise, the slightest difference in details about the day of the resurrection make the idea of it being god-breathed very, very fragile. If your Bible gets a 99% on the test, it fails, because it claims to be perfect. And it shows, when you have so many fragmented denominations who pointlessly despise each other. I have every right to grill you on every last jot and tittle in the text because your monopoly on truth is maintained by a series of events that a whole city missed out on for 40 days straight. Where was Pilate? Where was Annas? Why didn’t they see? Where are their gospels?
November 6, 2023 at 8:26 pm
Your blog post on God’s forgiveness is a true gem. Your eloquent words beautifully convey the concept of divine forgiveness and its incredible impact on our lives. It’s a message of hope and renewal, a reminder that we are never beyond the reach of God’s love and grace. Thank you for sharing this invaluable insight.
December 22, 2023 at 9:24 pm
Excellent post and thank so much for sharing. What I would say to those who believe Christianity is a religion is simple. All throughout the Old Testament and the New, Christianity was actually referred to as, The Way. This was so people would get to know God, His ways and have a relationship with Him. It’s also why we’ll be called sons and daughters. A title given to those who repent, turn from sin and believe in the Lord Jesus. The name Christianity was formed much later from the word Christian. And the word Christian was first given to believers in Antioch found in Acts 11:26.
So, Biblical Christianity is not a religion it is a relationship with Jesus who is the Christ and Lord God. But just as the Bible tells us, there are many wolves among sheep who’s only interest is perverting the Truth. But this is just my thoughts. I really enjoyed reading your post along with the comments and questions. God bless you! Robin